Need some advice on how to handle a cancellation

[katlover1952]

I sold an item on the weekend - a 12 strand tiny beaded necklace. Went to get it ready to ship Monday nite & not really sure how it happened but one of the strands broke on one end. Curses! I immediately sent an apologetic email to the purchaser explaining what had happened offering a refund right away. I then offered to either see if it could be reattached (doubtful) or removing the broken strand completely. Still would look great - with that many strands not really noticeable. Then if she wanted it like that we could sort it out. Problem is I have not yet heard from her even after sending a second email the next night. Not sure whether to go ahead remove the strand & mail hoping it is OK or what go do. Going to be late on mailing now anyway but not sure what to do. Any suggestions fellow sellers? My sales have not been too great since I closed during the postal uncertainty & really want to avoid any defects if at all possible.

[momcqueen]

If this happened to me, I'd mail it to the buyer but apologize again in the listing and add a (modest) free gift to indicate your apologies. 

One strand of 12 is not critical, and you were honest with the buyer. 

If, upon receipt, the buyer decides it does not suit due to this relatively minor damage (which to your credit you did not try to hide) you've little choice but to be gracious and accept a refund with return postage on your account. Or offer a partial refund. 

It's too bad it happened but I think you did the right thing by telling the buyer right away. 

Good luck. It will likely still be fine. 

[pjcdn2005]

If you have been just using eBay messages, try sending an email to thei PayPal email address. They might be more likely to see that.

Or.......I've also done something similar to what mj suggested although instead of sending a free gift I have given the buyer a partial refund, sent  the item and let them know if the item or price didn't work for them to let me know. 

[sylviebee]

That's a fairly common problem for sellers dealing with antique or older beaded items.

Are you referring to the blue necklace you sold for C$11?  

I usually try to repair the damage and you probably could have done that.  For an $11 necklace it's not worth the time required to re-bead the piece but had you not notified the buyer and removed any stray threads the buyer would likely not have noticed the change.

Now that you've alerted the buyer I think you have to wait it out until she responds and then allow her to choose between a partial refund and a cancellation.

I'd allow a few days for her to respond before doing anything more.  If there's no response refund with an explanatory note that if she still wants the item that you'll re-sell it to her at a discount.

[momcqueen]

Kat's handling time is three days after payment, though. Won't she automatically receive a defect for Late Shipment if she waits any longer? My intention is not to discount your advice, I agree there is merit in it. From a seller's point-of-view, what is her best course of action now to mitigate any damage caused? 

If it were me and, let's face it, things do happen* that are not according to plan, I'd ship it now with a note explaining again what transpired and outlined my efforts to communicate that went unanswered. (Some buyers are accustomed to ignoring messages from ebay as a matter of principle.) Free gift (modest one) and assurances that if the necklace disappoints, to contact me to work out an amicable solution.

There is a good chance that the buyer would not have even noticed 11 strands instead of 12. 

There is also a good chance she wouldn't much care even if she did.

However, even if the buyer is still happy with the necklace, the seller could get a defect for missing the On Time Shipping deadline in that question. With glowing positive feedback to go with it. Still a defect. 

*My biggest fear as a toy seller is that my kids will find and tear into something that has been sold. They have learned how to sneak down the hallway in the morning when they wake first and into the basement where my office and warehouse is located. The have also discovered that if they climb on to my desk and stand on it to reach the highest shelves, they can find the sweetest of things. I hear them as they go down the hallway but they move faster than I do. And apparently the temptation is greater than the consequences. Kids. 

[sylviebee]

For buyers of used (vintage, antique. etc.) items, the biggest sin a seller can commit is sending out an item with more damage than described.

If the seller ships this as is, it's a given that it's NADed as she's already told the buyer there's undisclosed damage.

That exposes the seller to all sorts of (well deserved) headaches much bigger than a ding for late shipping.

I know I'd be very unhappy if a seller just went ahead and shipped without first getting my approval and I know my customers would be as well.

[momcqueen]

Valid. You know this category of buyer and seller better than I.

[sylviebee]

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@mjwl2006 wrote:
Valid. You know this category of buyer and seller better than I.

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Buyers vary a lot in the amount of damage they'll tolerate, but there are those who go over items with magnifiers looking for every minor flaw.

In a case like this the buyer may not have noticed the damage had the seller repaired and shipped as is.

However, she has been told and that changes everything.

The buyer now knows that the item is flawed and that makes it much less desirable even if the flaw isn't immediately detectable by the naked eye.

[momcqueen]

It's just that with the new defect system, as far as a seller is concerned: shipping late is an automatic defect whereas an item SNAD is only defect-worthy if the seller were to deny it's defective, fight it, and lose. I'm not saying this is right or just, but that's the way it is. Even negative feedback no longer hurts a seller's performance but shipping late is a killer.

[momcqueen]

Like I said from the beginning of the new standards as I protested them, it's better for a seller to ship the wrong item fast with tracking than to sell the right one untraced or slowly. From purely the seller's standpoint.

[sylviebee]

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@mjwl2006 wrote:
It's just that with the new defect system, as far as a seller is concerned: shipping late is an automatic defect whereas an item SNAD is only defect-worthy if the seller were to deny it's defective, fight it, and lose. I'm not saying this is right or just, but that's the way it is. Even negative feedback no longer hurts a seller's performance but shipping late is a killer.

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VERY bad idea!

I'd be very annoyed if a seller did that to me.  It "disrespects" the item.

[sylviebee]

P.S.  I guess you can see that this is a very sensitive topic for me.

I'm so tired of sellers who send out items with more damage than described and then explain to me how it's an old item so I should know enough to expect some damage.

Nothing annoys me more!

[momcqueen]

What about a phone call to the buyer? If katlover subscribes to Selling Manager, there will be a Sales Record with buyer phone number in it.

[momcqueen]

I do agree with you sylviebee. Items as described are a thing to respect. But to look at it from an impartial third-eye, Late Shipment defects are a given slap-on-the-wrist. More than SNAD or INR. Or negative feedback. I protested this, and still do. But that's how the system is set to judge seller performance at present.

[sylviebee]

If the main concern is eBay dings, then (IMO) a better choice would be refund in full and send a cancelation request using "buyer changed mind."

Along with that a truthful note explaining exactly why that option was chosen along with an offer to sell the item at a reduced price.

Odds are that the buyer will decline the offer.

It's only an C$11 item so a lot of trouble for a few dollars but, it is what it is.

[pjcdn2005]

The seller made a mistake so the focus should be on making the buyer happy, not on how a snad or late shipment is going to affect the seller.  It's unfortunate that eBay has set up the system so that a seller sometimes concentrates on the latter but we still have to keep in mind that the ultimate goal is to make the buyer as happy as possible in a situation where the item can't be delivered in the advertised state.

I don't disagree with sylvie in that the buyer should be given the option of deciding what they want to do.  But if the buyer doesn't respond, how long does the seller wait to hear back from the buyer?  As far as the buyer knows the item is on its way...so perhaps in this case it's better to send the item with a discount and a note?  It's possible that the buyer would be as happy with an 11 strand vs a 12 strand  necklace.  If it turns out the buyer is not happy with the discounted item then I would refund in full and tell them to keep the item.....I'm assuming it is the $11 item.  

There is the risk that the buyer won't be happy and will not say anything so will walk away unhappy and that isn't a good outcome. But I think that there is a big difference in doing it this way as compared to a seller sending  out a nad item and not acknowledging that there is a problem.  

[rose-dee]

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@sylviebee wrote:

If the main concern is eBay dings, then (IMO) a better choice would be refund in full and send a cancelation request using "buyer changed mind."

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Under the current seller eBay rules, a full refund would give the OP an automatic defect.  From the 2015 Fall Seller Update: 

"Any transaction cancelled through eBay or refunded through PayPal because the seller no longer has the item or chooses not to ship the item will count in the defect rate as a seller-cancelled transaction."

The OP won't get away with "buyer changed mind" either, since she's already messaged the buyer about the damage.  EBay is now able to check messages in its system against any refunds/cancellations.  

No, in this case, if it's a low-priced item, it isn't worth getting a defect over.  Since the buyer isn't responding, if I were the OP, I'd ship the item immediately to avoid the on-time delivery issue, with a note enclosed explaining that I had provided a partial refund through Paypal for the damage.  A partial refund won't create a defect.

However, I'd make the refund generous enough (maybe 30% to 50% of the item sale price) to deter a return request by the buyer, and I'd do it the day I shipped (repeating the text of the note on the Paypal refund screen).  I wouldn't phone the buyer over an $11 item -- that could just create more complications.  

A 50% refund (i.e. about a $5 or $6 outlay) will prevent a defect and most likely avoid the problem of a SNAD return request by the buyer, which would oblige the seller to refund the whole price anyway (although it won't create a defect).  If the item is a more expensive one, I'd probably make the "discount"/refund more like 20% to 25%. 

[ricarmic]

What I have always done in partial refund situations is put the control of determining the amount of the refund in the buyers hands.

This way the buyer feels more a part of the positive resolution process and it is much much more likely to end up with a less unhappy buyer, and theoretically fewer problems like negatives neutrals etc.

Of course doing this creates risk that the buyer gets a bit heavy handed in how much partial they believe they deserve.

What I do is:

-if the buyer picks a partial refund amount I think fair I refund the amount they specify and all is well*

-if the buyer picks a partial refund amount I think is unfair I refund the amount they specify and I block them

For something that is $11 for sure I would leave the amount of the partial up to the buyer......

*as a note, recently I had a buyer that picked a partial refund amount that was right on the line, I wavered about whether I'd block them or not. I chose not to. Subsequently that same buyer bought a couple thousand dollars worth of stuff with no problems! Thank goodness I followed my process, which they appreciated and caused them to come back repeatedly,  and of course that I didn't block them!

[rose-dee]

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

...so perhaps in this case it's better to send the item with a discount and a note?  It's possible that the buyer would be as happy with an 11 strand vs a 12 strand  necklace.  If it turns out the buyer is not happy with the discounted item then I would refund in full and tell them to keep the item.....I'm assuming it is the $11 item.  

There is the risk that the buyer won't be happy and will not say anything so will walk away unhappy and that isn't a good outcome. But I think that there is a big difference in doing it this way as compared to a seller sending  out a nad item and not acknowledging that there is a problem.  

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I agree with you, the buyer has paid for the item and will expect it to be sent, although it appears the OP did at least acknowledge in her message(s) to the buyer that there was a problem.  As I said, I'd follow up that acknowledgement with an immediate partial refund.  It's a tricky issue, where neither side comes out 100% satisfied.  

I do want to say that eBay's on-time delivery rules and stringent seller defect rates have made it critical for smaller sellers to avoid such problems at all costs.  It's no wonder we're all so focused on saving our skins.  EBay has taken away our ability to deal directly with our customers to make them happy (or at least satisfied) without being punished by eBay itself.  

For example, in this instance, were it not for eBay's defect rules, if I noticed damage in an item prior to shipping, I would immediately refund the buyer in full, with a note of apology and perhaps a discount promise for a future purchase. But eBay says that's bad seller practice, deserving of an automatic defect.  I understand eBay's rationale for controlling their sellers in this way, but perhaps sellers who have been around for a while and/or maintained a certain seller standard, could be given a more leeway. 

Sorry I've drifted off topic, but the OP's situation could happen to any of us.  

[rose-dee]

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@ricarmic wrote:

What I have always done in partial refund situations is put the control of determining the amount of the refund in the buyers hands.

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Your advice is sound, as always, but the problem is that some buyers (especially the younger ones, using mobile devices to shop) just don't respond, as in the OP's situation.  They click to buy the item, process the Paypal payment, and they're gone.  

There's nothing wrong with that method of purchasing until a problem arises and you can't get in touch with the buyer.  I think that's where the OP's real dilemma lies, because now she's running against eBay's on-time delivery clock.  If the buyer had immediately replied, they could have worked out a discount/partial refund.  

I don't envy the OP's position, but in an unfortunate situation like this, given the lack of buyer communication, I'd do what was necessary to avoid a defect and make the buyer as satisfied as possible.