09-21-2014 11:30 AM
OMG!! Of all of eBay's checks and balances and ever-changing policies, it's the defect system that causes me to reach for the Tums. The word "defect" itself I find so distasteful and offensive that every time I hear it, my stomach churns. It brings to mind images of working in a factory under a communist regime where "x" number of defects will land you in a prison camp or your family will disappear. Seriously!!
I know that there are instances when a seller deserves negative feedback or a "defect". But for the majority of sellers who do everything right, they have no control over the buyer who leaves a rating that results in a defect because ..... maybe they're in a bad mood; maybe they don't understand the rating system and maybe they couldn't care less.
I checked my Dashboard last night and found yet ANOTHER DEFECT. I looked up the Item # and it was an item that I had shipped the day after payment, Winnipeg to B.C., which she received in three business days. The item was New in Box and the picture of the actual product and the stock picture were identical. She left me a 1 for shipping and 3 or less for Item Not as Described.
Recently, a girl bought something from me, and then quickly sent me a note stating that she wanted to cancel for blah ... blah ... blah reason. I'm always very polite and patient, and agreeable, when I respond to these requests. I refunded immediately and requested that she kindly agree to the mutual cancellation so that I could get my fees back and re-sell the item. No reply. Dispute closes in 7 days; I get my FVF back but a defect as a Bonus. Even though I checked the box indicating that the buyer had changed her mind.
Everyone here I'm sure has example after example. How does this all make sense?
Are these big corporations that eBay has wooed subject to the same ridiculous ratings or is it only the smaller sellers who get their knuckles rapped at every turn?
09-21-2014 01:32 PM
Hello JT
I am with you on this one.I lost my top rated seller status and was so very upset.I ship on time ,describe my treasures to the best of my abilities.
Mine was for a egg coddler that was new in the box.She left me a negative before even contacting me.Claimed it was mishappen and dirty.What !!! I advised her to send it back.She said she threw it in the garbage and then proceeded to open a case.I responded send back for a full refund.She did not respond to my response,then she escalated it .I called Ebay and they refunded her not from my account,I asked why they did that as she stated she threw it in the garbage,the response was buyer satisfaction what about seller satisfaction.The negative did me in.She wanted me to lift my response,I don't think so she did it to other sellers as well.
Next was a sea shell hanger sent to the USA and they guy harassed me for days as the shipping was to high.He receives it and claims damage ,I advise him to send it back for a full refund.No response,Ebay closes the case and I get a defect .What !! I called Ebay and spoke to someone and pleaded my case.They did lift that one.
I am at a loss as well JT,they really need to look at this defect thing closely.
Bottom line is we are at the mercy of the buyer now more than ever.
09-21-2014 02:37 PM - edited 09-21-2014 02:39 PM
Yes, I agree, they've turned those of us who consider ourselves "boutique sellers" into paranoids, forever with an eye on the Dashboard to see what ugliness may appear.
So far I've escaped defects, but just barely. I feel like there's a bull's-eye on my back, just waiting to attract the right circumstances.
The saddest part of all this, to my mind, is that really good sellers, who have been giving their customers outstanding service for years, are getting defects for trying to do the right thing by their buyers!
In the meantime, we all hold our breath every time we attempt to provide good service. Here's an example: Last week, a buyer purchased 2 paper sewing patterns from my store. She then purchased a CD sewing pattern a few days later (along with a 3rd paper pattern). I had the CD and the paper pattern all parcelled up and the Expedited label paid for and affixed to the parcel, ready to go the next morning. I had paid for the upgrade to Expedited myself.
On taking a closer look I noticed that the CD this buyer had purchased was actually a duplicate of the paper pattern she'd purchased a few days earlier. I sent her a note asking if she realized it was the same pattern, and asking if she'd like a refund and to cancel. She hadn't noticed it was a duplicate, and thanked me for offering to refund and cancel. I told her not to worry about returning the CD, just pass it along to someone who might use it.
Well, I refunded her in full and sent the cancellation (reason: buyer made mistake/changed her mind), but I suppose she was busy, and several days went by. I realized to my dismay that I might get a defect -- as you did -- if I were obliged to close the cancellation case myself. Fortunately the buyer popped up and closed it just in time. So far I see no defect on my Dashboard, but I'm still watching.
Why a transaction ending in this manner (as yours did -- with the buyer satisfied), would ever be considered a defect, I can't fathom. I think that eBay launched this whole defect programme, as usual, without fully considering the consequences. Or maybe they did, and their real motive is to get rid of as many small sellers as possible so they can concentrate on their main interest these days, their corporate pals.
My only hope -- and it may be a futile one -- is that the new automated "after-sales experience" procedures may eliminate many of the unfair defects arising from cancellations. However, now we'll have buyers being able to ask for cancellations within a hour of purchasing. I can see that causing new issues for sellers, who will have no choice but to always cancel.
Combined with the new Paypal 180 day return/INAD/INR window, we can't count on any sale being a closed transaction within a reasonable time period.
By the way, 'jt' , if you have the energy and time, I would try to reverse that second defect you mention. You should not have got a demerit for being a good seller. And yes, I agree completely, "defect" is a very unpleasant word -- it makes me think of reform schools and factory floors.
09-21-2014 02:58 PM - edited 09-21-2014 03:01 PM
It was not a well thought out system at all. (that's putting it very mildly)
They are supposed to automatically remove wrongly given defects on Wednesdays so if they don't remove that second one, you should phone customer service.
09-21-2014 03:01 PM
@rose-dee wrote:
In the meantime, we all hold our breath every time we attempt to provide good service. Here's an example: Last week, a buyer purchased 2 paper sewing patterns from my store. She then purchased a CD sewing pattern a few days later (along with a 3rd paper pattern). I had the CD and the paper pattern all parcelled up and the Expedited label paid for and affixed to the parcel, ready to go the next morning. I had paid for the upgrade to Expedited myself.
On taking a closer look I noticed that the CD this buyer had purchased was actually a duplicate of the paper pattern she'd purchased a few days earlier. I sent her a note asking if she realized it was the same pattern, and asking if she'd like a refund and to cancel. She hadn't noticed it was a duplicate, and thanked me for offering to refund and cancel. I told her not to worry about returning the CD, just pass it along to someone who might use it.
By the way, 'jt' , if you have the energy and time, I would try to reverse that second defect you mention. You should not have got a demerit for being a good seller. And yes, I agree completely, "defect" is a very unpleasant word -- it makes me think of reform schools and factory floors.
See, that's an excellent example of sellers going above and beyond. I too pay a portion of the shipping charge, upgrading to Expedited or Tracked Packet just to be on the safe side. We both know that charging more for shipping than we already do will likely turn away the buyers and adding it into the asking price places us out of the market.
When I think of the purchases I have made over the years on eBay, I would say most sellers are simply adequate, with a couple more than satisfactory and many less than satisfactory. I would be thrilled to receive a package from a seller like myself -- packaged with care, often gift-wrapped and always with a thank you note and a gift included. At Christmas I include a gift bag and tissue for buyers to use when gifting the item. Now I know that these extras are totally unnecessary, but it makes me feel good to do this. It's my way of thanking people for putting their trust in me. Rarely have I ever got a thank you, either in the package or by e-mail, and seldom has care been taken in packaging the item. That seems to be the norm.
I have no doubt that you take special care with all of your shipments as well and we don't deserve to be penalized without cause.
If I have time tomorrow, I may try to get through to a CSR and see if I can get the second defect I mentioned reversed. I didn't even know that was a possibility.
Thanks for your comments. It's nice to be able to commiserate once in a while 🙂
09-21-2014 03:23 PM
What used t be considered a small problem... Today can become a killer defect.
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Mailed a large 30 lb parcel value $40 Canadian using Xpresspost US... a unique a special 5 volume encyclopedia.
Newby buyer FB = 2 was waiting for delivery to occur to a community mailbox or dropped of at his doorstep.
And... I kept saying he must sign in person when the parcel is delivered... or signed when picked up at a postal outlet.
I kept asking myself what to do if the parcel starts coming back to me so as not to create a defect...
No delivery early last Thursday.. but then after supper tracking showed the parcel was delivered with signature provided.
Ecstatic.... Ecstasy......nothing illegal
Celebrated with a ...Pumpkin Pie Blizzard ... at Dairy Queen
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Then yesterday buyer in Finland lets me know that tracking looks strange.... Parcel never left Montreal and does not show it had left Canada...
Going to have to call Canada Post tomorrow .. Monday...
Did someone not scan it... or .....Was the parcel lost in Montreal...
Other Tacking to Europe shows parcel goes from Montreal to Ville Marie and leaves Canada...
Now I ask myself how ...not ... to create a defect... looks to be Canada Post's problem.... maybe a quick insurance claim... or do I have to wait a few more days/weeks.... Parcels to Europe usually arrive in customs after about 5 weeks.
----------------------------------------------------
The big question becomes ... How do I prevent a defect?.. or ... Will I get one no matter what?
Such problems... or potential problems... can be addressed easily ...
Now something small can become a defect..... not because of what a seller did or did not do... JUST BECAUSE!
09-22-2014 01:33 PM
'cumos' -- Your experience is exactly what I was referring to. Now instead of being focused on providing excellent service to make customers happy (or at the very least, satisfied), we're focused on doing whatever is necessary to avoid defects.
That is simply wrong. It has turned the concept of "good customer service" on its ear and made a mockery of sellers' attempts to provide outstanding service in every situation.
There are many things that are beyond our direct control (such as postal delivery times), but the best sellers used to handle these issues effectively with their customers before eBay decided to intervene and dictate what constituted a defect and what was a positive transaction.
For example, if a parcel were ever delayed beyond the reasonably expected timeframe, my personal approach was to immediately refund the buyer, no questions asked, with a request that the buyer let me know if the parcel did arrive so that I could re-invoice. This was a rare occurrence, but it created a satisfied buyer and had nothing but a positive outcome (for both parties). Now such common sense service becomes a complicated equation, that may result in a "defect".
"Ecstatic.... Ecstasy......nothing illegal
Celebrated with a ...Pumpkin Pie Blizzard ... at Dairy Queen"
This made me chuckle, but it's a sad commentary as well. It means we sellers are becoming nervous about every transaction, to the point where we celebrate when we dodge a defect bullet!
I think it's hard not to give in to discouragement and loss of confidence when you feel embattled at every turn. Personally, I know I was capable of making my own decisions about making my customers happy, and I think most good sellers were. I resent losing that freedom to manage my business.
By the way, 'cumos', a "Pumpkin Pie Blizzard" sounds pretty extravagant -- you really must have been in a worried state!
09-22-2014 02:07 PM
Pumpkin Pie Blizzard... not really extravagant.... just that time of the year
Several things were on my mind...
The parcel to Arizona that finally got picked up was major because of value and that buyer in Finland was minor ... for now
were small factors compared to reliving a nightmare from about 10 years ago... and that will be a reality for a while longer.
The defect system is something new.... we have to learn what to do, to do it right...
Making adjustments in relation to not getting a defect made one come up with the right answer to get the best result....
Knowing what to say.. and over how many days made dealing with that Arizona parcel relatively easy... and felt super good when it was finally delivered.
I was planning to get that Pumpkin Pie Blizzard no matter what.... but having that parcel delivered made it taste super good.... and with somewhat of an adrenaline rush.
Talking things over with someone ... helped one deal with that nightmare.
Everyone should celebrate with a Pumpkin Pie Blizzard.... no defect... no nuts, as I found out I had become allergic over the past 5 years....
But then I also have friends like this to scale the blues away..
09-22-2014 02:12 PM
But then I also have friends like this to scare the blues away..
My Friend....
09-22-2014 02:13 PM
09-22-2014 02:14 PM
A painting of a mountain lion for my daughter the "Cat Lady"
09-22-2014 02:53 PM
The "defect" system is know as Six Sigma and was originally introduced by Motorolla in 1986. "Six Sigma seeks to improve the quality of process outputs by identifying and removing the causes of defects (errors) and minimizing variability in manufacturing and business processes".
There is nothing new about it. There is nothing insidious about it. It is certainly not eBay's idea, word, or process. They are merely implementing what many businesses already implement.