The other side of the story :(

[nan*55]

http://www.panow.com/node/285372#.UPRH2AK27LM.facebook

[prior-of-verity*shake-hands-with-your-devil]

I got the stats several years ago from AA who do research across Canada. I have had a long association with them because I am an alcoholic.

I have tried to find the stats on line to keep everyone happy but there doesn't seem to be anything. I guess they keep their information private. They had no reason to lie.

The Native population does have a high rate of alcoholism but can you blame them? I can't, not after all they have been through for generations and what they continue to have to deal with with governments and ......racists in Canada.

[pigdog47]

Per capita? Where do you see those statistics? It's difficult to know whether you are right or wrong unless you can show where your information comes from.

Hope it doesn't come from a newspaper, cause thems conniving journalists just make it up as they go!  And you can't trust government stats either, cause they want the Natives portrayed as  hapless drunks.  And please don't believe any source that has a Conservative pedigree, cause those guys can't be trusted like a Liberal source can.  If however the source is a PSW or even better, two or three PSWs, then it's legit.   Especially if the PSWs are underpaid.

[hereiam87]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLb7VDNnd2M

video makes mention,

I have met some of the members of that Nation,

and helped them spend their money.

Funny,

All this energy spent taking the energy out of the earth,

and the community is suffering from disenfranchisement.

Coincidence?

]:)

[pjcdn2005]

got the stats several years ago from AA who do research across Canada. I have had a long association with them because I am an alcoholic.

You're an alcoholic, yet you drink....that isn't very common.

I have tried to find the stats on line to keep everyone happy but there doesn't seem to be anything. I guess they keep their information private. They had no reason to lie.

I agree, they have no reason to lie. But I suspect that their information is based on their membership, not on the whole population. I did find some AA statistics although they are not specific to Canadians and they just show that a small percentage of native Americans that belong to AA replied to the survey.

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/alcoholism-12-step-support/53015-some-recent-aa-statistics.html

This information is primarily from the A. A. World Services pamphlet
#P-48

In 2001, more than 7500 A. A. members (out of several million) participated in a random survey of the membership.

The following graphs and charts are based on that information.

Ages of Members
Gender of Members

Under age 21 2%
Age 21 through 30 9%
Age 31 through 40 24%
Age 41 through 50 31%
Age 51 through 60 20%
Age 61 through 70 10%
Over 70 4% Women 33%


Men 67%

Marital Status of Members Composition of Membership
Married 37%
Single 31%
Divorced 24%
Widowed 5%
Separated 3%

White 88%
Black 5%
Hispanic 4%
Native American 2%
Asian & Other 1%

[pjcdn2005]

pd, your post made me laugh :^O

I did find some info on a government site that shows information that is contrary to what prior suggested.(so it must not be true 🙂

If you want to look at it, here is the url.

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/fniah-spnia/pubs/aborig-autoch/2009-stats-profil/index-eng.php#fig11

But it really doesn't matter who drinks more...I was surprised at the "fact" that prior threw out there and was curious enough to dig a bit to see if it was true.

The Native population does have a high rate of alcoholism but can you blame them? I can't, not after all they have been through for generations and what they continue to have to deal with with governments and ......racists in Canada

I don't blame anyone for being an alcoholic...addictions start for different reasons. But playing the blame game doesn't do a darn thing to help the person. They have to first want to help themself and take some responsibility for what they are doing. And yes...I know that is easier said than done.

[pjcdn2005]

🙂

Interesting video. I honestly think that is where it has to start...from within the community. I don't know how much progress they have made since then but I hope they don't give up.

Coincidence? They were so wealthy at one time and it seems that they spent it rather than investing the money for the future...that's sad.  I know a lot of people who do that.....natives and non natives and it is definitely more prevalent in the oil field because of the huge amount of money that gets thrown around.

But is it the government and prior's "racists" that caused them to spend that money without thinking of the future? Or was it their own fault? I'm sure that it's a combination of many things.

[nan*55]

I posted this to show that there is many sides to this story.Whether "Dave" is crediable or not isn't the point.The point is people are scared to say what they really feel.

Oh and I actually was out to our local REZ last weekend, to visit my husbands Aunt.And she also does not sopport INM.

[pierrelebel]

"I have tried to find the stats on line to keep everyone happy but there doesn't seem to be anything."

http://www.firstnationsdrum.com/2001/12/debate-rages-over-native-alcoholism/

[pierrelebel]

"I have tried to find the stats on line to keep everyone happy but there doesn't seem to be anything."

It only takes a few seconds through Google to get a quick overview of topics of interest:

http://www.google.ca/search?q=canada+alcoholism+natives&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&st...

[brandeentertainment]

Dave's not here man

[puckstopshere]

The Sun.....garbage media. A ton of figures and not an ounce of evidence or 'complete' facts.

Funny.  When they disagree with you, they are "garbage media".

A couple of days ago, I posted a number of items from the Sun that were pro-native.  You didn't call them garbage media then.

[puckstopshere]

There are far more alcoholic whites than Native.

Per capita? Where do you see those statistics? It's difficult to know whether you are right or wrong unless you can show where your information comes from.

Demand statistics from others, but don't provide any of your own.  It is his way for he is the Prior Of Verity - which means, roughly, keeper of the truth.

[puckstopshere]

I got the stats several years ago from AA who do research across Canada. I have had a long association with them because I am an alcoholic.

I have tried to find the stats on line to keep everyone happy but there doesn't seem to be anything. I guess they keep their information private. They had no reason to lie.

Funny!  They had had no trouble telling you "several years ago". 

Must have signed a contract with their members - something to do with confidentiality.

Intersting!  You talked about the supposedly made up (in your opinion) Dave.  I have signed employment agreements in the past that had various statements about your personal behavior, actions or words not affecting the companies reputation.  This is a very broad statement and could be interpreted in many ways.

Maybe our Davey boy works for a Native Band and fears repercussions if he speaks up against a supposedly popular cause. 

Some natives disagree with Idle No More.  My friend Alex that I mentioned before.  He does not like the movement.  He feels that, in the long run, it will hurt the cause, not help it.  Of course maybe I made him up.  (I will be picking him up this Saturday night for 'gus night' - oops, I lied, it is John's turn to drive).

[valve37]

More of the other side on the subject of racism and political correctness:

The son of an illegal immigrant asks his dad, "Dad, what's democracy?""Well, son, that's when Canadians work and we get all the benefits from it!""But Dad, aren't the Canadian people unhappy about that?""Sure they are son, but that's called 'racism.'"

[puckstopshere]

got the stats several years ago from AA who do research across Canada. I have had a long association with them because I am an alcoholic.

Just got off the phone with an AA member.  He leads a group here in London.  Dare I say it - is name is Dave. 

He was a counsellor that I worked with a couple of years ago.  He has been in AA for 23 years.  He said that, in all that time, he has had only one Native in the program. 

[puckstopshere]

It only takes a few seconds through Google to get a quick overview of topics of interest:

Absolutely.  But if the information does not support your ideas, then you lose the information and claim you "can't find it".

We all know that Prior knows how to find things on the net.  He regularly presents things that support "his" viewpoint. 

[puckstopshere]

You're an alcoholic, yet you drink....that isn't very common.

Actually. PJ, it is more common than you might think (sorry, don't have any stats).

I was an alcoholic in my teen years and my 20's.  Usually people drink for a reason.  Mine was being sexually abused as a child.  For a while, I did what most males do.  Tried not to deal with the issue.  However, the affects on my life were far more serious than I thought.  My defense against these things and my feelings was to drink.

In my 30's, I got help (thanks to my wifes gentle prodding).  I learned to put my abuse into persepective and was able to move on.  After that, I was always interested in "why I was abused".  I eventually took some training and, along with a social worker, worked with several groups of abusers.  It is interesting to watch them progress through counselling.  For most, there is denial at the beginning - and denial at the end.  But for the occasional one, a light goes on.  They realize that what they have "justified" all their lives has been a lie.  They come to realize that they did not "love" children.  They merely expressed love in order to groom their victims.  In that kind of counselling, success is rare. 

Anyways, I digress.  I was an alcoholic.  I dealt with the issues that drove me to alcohol.  Now I drink in moderation and do not fear ever becoming an alcoholic again.

[nan*55]

I think this thread has gotten a little off track 😉 But I do enjoy the read!

We are NEVER going to all agree and that was the point of my post. The point was that in life we all have our own opinions and we should not be afraid to voice them.

Just because I feel I'm right does not make you wrong!!!!

[pigdog47]

:^O:^O

:^O

I think this thread has gotten a little off track 😉 But I do enjoy the read!

Just because I feel I'm right does not make you wrong!!!!

Nah, You're wrong!   I'm never wrong, and you're never right.   don't think I'll ever be able to read a newspaper again, cause they are apparently full of untruthful stories by unscrupulous journalists.   .Fortunately for us here, a higher ethical standard doesn't permit anonymous  identities, nor posts to contain references about "a neighbour I happen to know says...", or,      "two friends (who happen to be  Nurses, PSWs, Police Officers, Natives,......fill in the blanks)  say such and such.   It is all such incredible malarkey!!  But spoken with such sincerity and passion!

[pigdog47]

.............as if ole Danny Boy is heeding the call of the (crack) pipe.  The pipe......the pipe is calling.....