eBay

milezero · ‎12-09-2013

10% final value fees and a "shipping final value fee"?! WTH is that? Oh, I know, it's way of pretending final value fees are lower than they actually are.

Wait, I can hear the chorus already: "other auctions charge more". Yes, and with other auctions you just drop off the goods and pick up your check. Big difference in time, trouble and aggravation.

However, you can boil a frog if you do it slowly, so the fees will keep rising until sellers drop out I guess.

I hear several large corporations around the world have entirely eliminated their middle management and surprise(!) things work just fine. Better in fact as the paper pushers are sent back to the floor to do productive tasks that produce goods or serve customers.

Time eBay discovered this concept and instead of trying to screw more out of the sellers who make this place exist, save by getting rid of useless mouths who spend their time trying to squeeze more juice out of someone else's lemon to justify their paychecks.

But of course part of the function of middle management is to provide peons for upper management to order around, so upper management has to feel the need to give up that pleasure in exchange for better profitability.

Thank you and good night.

rose-dee · ‎12-11-2013

@73rhc wrote:
I read another post about using surface shipping. Well I never had a problem with it and will continue to use it as it's the only way to keep costs down. If you (as a general public ) disagree, well it doesn't make it wrong. And then that is where the condescending attitude manifests itself. So I feel some people with 5digit feedback, while they do gave experience, still have their blinders on.

There can certainly be differing opinions, and that is helpful if it comes from a similarly extensive experience base.

However, the statement above is an example of what I was referring to. It's often only after they encounter a problem that people realize in retrospect that they were given sound and reasonable advice -- human nature I suppose.

It's not that using surface shipping is wrong in itself -- there are some things that are clearly wrong to do on eBay, but this isn't one of them. Experienced sellers strongly advise against it, which is a different thing. That advice comes from weighing the pros and cons, risks and benefits from a wider perspective than looking at the short-term savings. They see Russian roulette where a less experienced (or occasional) seller may only be looking at the cash saved in the short run.

Such wisdom may seem condescending to a seller who hasn't yet accumulated enough sales to have had a few really bad experiences, or to be able to anticipate the risks. Furthermore, I think many inexperienced sellers feel they are being "talked down to" because they're not looking at the same sort of long-term picture as a full-time seller. They may interpret the advice as mere criticism, but I think experienced sellers are trying to tell them that certain practices can and will result in problems for the seller if they want to continue selling on eBay.

Believe it or not, I really think most of the experienced sellers on these boards are giving useful and valuable advice, even if it sometimes comes out the wrong way. And quite honestly, I have to say that some obstinate "newbies" who insist on being "right" seem to need a bit of a bitter pill to save them from themselves!

Of course there are sellers who have no desire or need to build up a reputation or business here, so they can ignore all advice, do what they think best, and take their chances -- in the short run it may work out.

Lastly, things do change on eBay, and what worked 2 or 3 years ago isn't necessarily a wise choice anymore. Surface shipping is a good example of this, not because the shipping services have become any worse, but because eBay has greatly tightened up its buyer protection policies. The fact is, it's now more a matter of luck than strategy to avoid difficulties with surface shipping -- luck, because you're relying on the buyer to be patient (or even forfeit his/her protection in some instances), and because there is very little leeway for the seller if there are any unforeseen shipping delays.

73rhc · ‎12-11-2013

"
Please, lead us from the darkness.

When we do not agree with you, we are wrong? Kinda flies in the face of your remark "Then we will agree to disagree".

We are wrong because we make the system work for us? We have to join your team of "I fought the system and the system won"?

How about, we do not share you negative viewpoint? Maybe, just maybe, the sun shines in our world! :-)"

Thank you for proving my point with your unwelcome comments. I never, ever said anyone was wrong. I said their situation doesn't apply to everyone. Your comments make me want to retaliate in anger, but I will refrain. Please try to read the post. And that is nor said sarcastically!

pierrelebel · ‎12-11-2013

"there are different kinds of sellers out there."

Most folks clearly understand that. We are not stupid.

The point is if you feel the fees charged by eBay are too high, find another venue to sell your stuff.

Arguing every word and sentence with every poster will not lower fees charged by eBay.

An alternative is to change your business model so that the items you sell attract a higher price and leave larger margins to accommodate those "high fees" by eBay.

73rhc · ‎12-11-2013

"We are not stupid."

Clearly, some people feel that the finger was pointed at them!

"Arguing every word and sentence with every poster will not lower fees charged by eBay"

Thank you too for making my point for me. I do not argue every word and sentence. That's just your way of trying to impose your way of thinking on everyone. I am allowed, after all, my opinion.

"An alternative is to change your business model so that the items you sell attract a higher price and leave larger margins to accommodate those "high fees" by eBay."

Never asked for your advice. When I need sound business advice, I will seek out a professional.

"The point is if you feel the fees charged by eBay are too high, find another venue to sell your stuff.

Arguing every word and sentence with every poster will not lower fees charged by eBay."

You are fast to ask people to find another venue. Please do the same if you don't like my opinion!

73rhc · ‎12-11-2013

Contrary to what you may perceive, I welcome all advise. So long as it's constructive. A lot of it is destructive!

I don't want to open the argument about shipping. But one can argue both sides. All I ever said was that I've been using it since 1997 with rarely a problem! And will continue to use it.

rose-dee · ‎12-11-2013

@73rhc wrote:
I don't want to open the argument about shipping. But one can argue both sides. All I ever said was that I've been using it since 1997 with rarely a problem! And will continue to use it.

With all due respect, since the 2013 Spring Seller Update and changes in buyer protection policy since then, I think it's now hard to argue both sides of the surface shipping issue. EBay has stacked the dice on the side of faster shipping (unfortunately, but that's the new reality we sellers have had to adjust to and find ways to manage).

Surface shipping used to be a good, cost-effective alternative; but because of eBay's policy changes it simply isn't a prudent choice anymore if a seller is concerned about maintaining a long-term first rate reputation. And sadly, the lower a seller's monthly/yearly sales volume (not necessarily $ sales), the more seriously he/she will be hit by that one transaction that goes awry and results in negative FB, bad DSRs, perhaps a lost claim, and lost revenue.

Of course it is each seller's choice -- some may feel the risk is worth the savings, I don't, and I think many established sellers don't either.

73rhc · ‎12-11-2013

" the more seriously he/she will be hit by that one transaction that goes awry and results in negative FB, bad DSRs, perhaps a lost claim, and lost revenue"

Are you saying that this can't happen using other shipping methods?

cumos55 · ‎12-12-2013

Many times I have gone to the discussion boards on eBay.com.

The most interesting discussions are those where someone is unhappy with some aspect of selling on eBay, more specifically eBay.

I read them and learn from what is said.

Much of what a seller says in these discussions helps one understand the reality of eBay.

and in turn file away the problem for future reference... and .... Can the problem be my concern? Can it happen to me?

The "oldtimers" have been through a lot... they have adjusted over the years.

Each seller does their own "thing" relative to what they sell, and in relation to years of experience.

The basics are there for all to know... However, the specifics for each seller are there for interpretation and application..

And many times ... It is .... Been there - done that... but not today...

In turn... the most important aspect of selling on eBay is

Knowing... What not to do?

and .... Focusing on what it takes to ... Make It Happen....

rose-dee · ‎12-12-2013

@73rhc wrote:
" the more seriously he/she will be hit by that one transaction that goes awry and results in negative FB, bad DSRs, perhaps a lost claim, and lost revenue"

Are you saying that this can't happen using other shipping methods?

No, but for other reasons, and far, far less often. The only problem with surface shipping, as I said earlier, is that it is guaranteed to be slower, and unfortunately that means usually slower than eBay's buyer protection window.

Buyers may say they don't mind waiting, even request surface shipping because of the cost, but when push comes to shove and they realize their opportunity to file a claim is quickly passing, they can (and do) change their tune. We see this on these boards frequently.

Actually, I've always used airmail service of one kind or another (lettermail, small/light packet and occasionally Expedited, rarely Xpresspost), and have never had a parcel take more than 2 weeks to anywhere I ship. Not using surface isn't my whole shipping strategy, but it's a big part of it.

reallynicestamps · ‎12-12-2013

" the more seriously he/she will be hit by that one transaction that goes awry and results in negative FB, bad DSRs, perhaps a lost claim, and lost revenue"

Are you saying that this can't happen using other shipping methods?

Ah yes! The eBay customer!

I've been sellling everything from cast iron woodstoves to postage stamps by mail for over 30 years. And frankly, the eBay customer is the worst for impatience with mail order of all the venues I've used.

Part of this is eBay/Paypal's insistence that problems with sales be reported through the Dispute process within 45 days of purchase.

With Air Mail, the parcel will arrive within the 45 days. With surface it probably won't.

I've listed on several other sites, The Ranch, The Moon, The Doll, and never had a complaint about shipping time. And again, 30 years of mail order experience with few problems. Perhaps a million transactions, many in the thousands of dollars. And we have our own website and list on various hobby sites as well. (We have seven IDs on eBay, eight counting DH).

On eBay? Panicky questions at least once a month. And mostly I sell cheap vintage paperbacks that ship Air Mail /Letter Rate.

And the thing about bookbuyers is, they can and do read.

Ghu have mercy on sellers of .... well, if I mention certain categories, people might get their knickers in a twist... but many buyers just look at the picture and the price. Sigh.

73rhc · ‎12-12-2013

"No, but for other reasons, and far, far less often. The only problem with surface shipping, as I said earlier, is that it is guaranteed to be slower, and unfortunately that means usually slower than eBay's buyer protection window. "

I don't disagree. However, depending on the size of the package, often the item goes via airmail. I just recently sold an item, Paypal payment made on November 24th, positive feedback left on December 4th. Item sent surface mail from Montreal to Cantebury, New Zealand. Not the norme, you might say. But happens quite frequently. Most buyers from down under know the score and are patient.

I don't have a problem sending via other methods. But it's the buyer who is paying. So firstly, you tend to attract less buyers with the higher shipping cost. Even if you offer "free" shipping. It has to be added in the listing price. Secondly, even if you get the buyer to buy, negative or low DSRs are more likely. They get that buyer remorse and think "hey, shipping is really expensive from Canada. Not like here in the good ol' US of A"

rose-dee · ‎12-12-2013

@73rhc wrote:
I don't have a problem sending via other methods. But it's the buyer who is paying. So firstly, you tend to attract less buyers with the higher shipping cost. Even if you offer "free" shipping. It has to be added in the listing price. Secondly, even if you get the buyer to buy, negative or low DSRs are more likely. They get that buyer remorse and think "hey, shipping is really expensive from Canada. Not like here in the good ol' US of A"

Buyers will choose the lowest shipping every time, regardless of what options are offered. I don't give my buyers options, I choose which shipping service is the combination of the fastest and most reasonably priced for the particular item, then discount it as a courtesy to my customers. Yes, I absorb some (or sometimes all) of the shipping cost. No, I don't always add it to the item price. A lower shipping cost attracts more buyers, and it makes buyers (especially in the US) so happy to pay a lower-than-USPS rate and still get their item fast. Happy buyers = happy FB/DSRs.

I consider "shipping subsidies" the cost of attracting more business. It brings in buyers who might not purchase if I charged actual rates and eliminates problems or claims from slow boat shipping methods. Being competitive sometimes means discounting in one area to increase volume and/or dollar value of sales in another. A common business strategy, but I do have to admit that this may be the difference in perspective between running a full-time business and doing casual selling. The trouble is that it's the casual seller who is most at risk of having eBay shut them down for low standards -- a higher volume seller can afford the occasional trashing of DSRs and buyer claims.

All I can say is that you will need luck using surface shipping. You're convinced it's a good choice for you, but I think that choice will catch up to you one day. Again, for what it's worth, if I were selling what you are selling I would slightly increase my prices and show lower than actual shipping costs, but offer air services only. I find Small Packet and Light Packet Air cover a large range of possibilities at reasonable cost, and I've yet to have a delivery problem or complaint from any buyer.

I don't think you'll find buyers will all be as understanding of long shipping times as your NZ customers, and I just don't think surface shipping functions well with eBay's current policies anyway.

73rhc · ‎12-12-2013

"but I think that choice will catch up to you one day."

Maybe, but I've been doing it this way for 15 or 16 years. At a low volume, but none the less, with seldom a problem. Will it become problamatic tomorrow? Possibly.

There is no global answer. If one sells items for $6.99, I don't see it as an issue. If one sell items for $699, I would not send anything via surface mail.

cumos55 · ‎12-12-2013

Small packet with insurance, but without tracking was a painful experience.

It was eventually decided to ship only to a certain group of countries in Europe... All other countries were excluded.

International parcel surface is used, first because of price, and then because of tracking as well as insurance.

One gets the impression that with tracking the parcel moves more quickly to its destination than without tracking.

With tracking European buyers can see when the parcel has reached the destination country..... and customs can add a significant delay before the buyer finally receives the parcel.

So far so good....

and sometimes the parcel has received an airmail delivery without extra cost....

shipping_to · ‎01-07-2016

don't forget to add the paypal transaction fees.

Free market, Free enterprise Libertarian solution: competitors.

Do they exist? Nope.

Ebay monopoly holds. Along with amazon, who is just as absurd for charging fees.

Anyone know of something called a "startup"... internet startup companies.... yo. Milton Friedman would be rolling in his grave...

By the time you pay your paypal/ebay fees you end up losing 15 percent of the sale or so. Guess who loses? The buyer. The price of items goes up because of an inefficient monopoly. Free market, free enterprise. Go USA. You failed.

pierrelebel · ‎01-07-2016

"Ebay monopoly holds"

Monopoly?????

There is nothing preventing you from doing what many other eBay sellers have done over the years: set up your own website and sell directly to your buyers without paying commission to eBay.

Not that difficult.

cumos55 · ‎01-07-2016

But then it does cost to set up and operate a website...

Setting up a B & M on the internet.

Nothing is free... Everything has a cost, whether real or hidden.

Real... The actual cost.

Hidden... less potential buyers, unless the website draws a lot of customers.

mr.elmwood · ‎01-07-2016

I chuckled over that "monopoly" word as well. Start your web site. Easy enough. Get a payment processor, easy enough. Set-up a system of automatic record keeping, easy enough. Advertise worldwide, easy enough. I pay eBay to do that for me.

Since I am making 40% more than just three years ago, the fees are all free.

How many eBay wannabes have started over the years? All ya need are warehouses full of computers, office buildings full of people, and a couple billion in start-up money. Easy enough.

.
.
.