eBay

fh991586 · ‎08-14-2015

Hello there,

First time that I received a bootleg item unknowingly. The item was listed "As new", and the US seller has more than 4000 good feedback with a 100% rate. He claims he didn't notice the image compression when he screened some of the dvds, nor the lower print quality of packaging on the box & each dvd cases (moiré pattern, letters with a light blurred outline instead of clean sharp print, etc.). I have some dvds from this serie to use as proof to compare both items, and I have enough printing experience & knowledge on dvd/cd to spot a fraudulent production.

I believe the seller when he tells me he didn't know that it's a bootleg, and he states that he bought it from somebody else on eBay. But he doesn't seem to want to refund me the return shipping for the item if I send it back (his terms on page states buyer is responsible for return shipping). I clearly would not have bought it if I had known this was not an official release, so I don't think I should lose money over this transaction.

The case has not been escalated trhough eBay yet, since I only exchange message through the "question to seller" formula in My Ebay. I'm waiting for his final decision over complete refund + return shipping...

My question is: what are my options now? I've never had to deal with such a bad experience before!

[I enclosed an image example of the boxset]

pierrelebel · ‎08-19-2015

From eBay staff this morning:

"The seller has to pay for return shipping, no matter how expensive. Whether they do that by providing the buyer with a return label or money to pay for return shipping.

If the seller doesn't comply with this, the buyer asks eBay to step in and if a the case is ruled in favour of the buyer, eBay issues the refund for all necessary monies and then collects from the seller."

mater721 · ‎08-19-2015

So... sometimes common sense does prevail...

afantiques · ‎08-19-2015

I have never heard of this actually happening, and I'd like to know just how the buyer is supposed to ask ebay to step in, since that option was already used in the dispute process.

Also, as I recall, when the matter of sellers paying return shipping was first introduced, the return shipping cost was capped at what the seller paid to send the item.

To say 'No matter how expensive' opens the gates to disgruntled buyers using FEDEX overnight express to return an item at a cost of maybe $80 that cost $10 to send to the buyer by mail. And may be worth only $20. Good way to whack the seller.

pierrelebel · ‎08-19-2015

"Good way to whack the seller."

I am a pragmatic individual and one would think that a smart seller, aware of his reputation, would want the problem to go away quickly and would simply refund the full original payment and let the buyer keep or destroy the item.

mater721 · ‎08-19-2015

I agree.

Unless the value of the item far outstrips the value of the shipping, it seems a logical route.

The seller can ask for a picture of the destroyed item before refunding.

I suppose there might be a few creative folk out there that could fake it, but, that would be a very small minority.

And for a time - was it demanded of buyers to return via Tracked shipping the item if they wanted a refund?

Imagine the cost to return to China. Could end up many times greater than original cost of item+shipping...

afantiques · ‎08-19-2015

I am a pragmatic individual and one would think that a smart seller, aware of his reputation, would want the problem to go away quickly and would simply refund the full original payment and let the buyer keep or destroy the item.

I have no doubt that you are a paragon among sellers (no sarcasm intended, I am sure you really are) but as we all know some sellers are as thick as two bricks and as retentive as the most miserly miser in miserdom. They will spend hours and dollars disputing cents and seem to feel genuinely aggrieved at everyone.

Solutions need to be designed with the lumpenseller in mind, not just TRS folk. Admittedly, the tactic of defecting all the less than stellar sellers off ebay is one way to do this.

pjcdn2005 · ‎08-19-2015

I have never heard of this actually happening, and I'd like to know just how the buyer is supposed to ask ebay to step in, since that option was already used in the dispute process.

I've heard of it happening although it isn't that clear cut and the buyer is really not guided on what to do in that situation. The customer service reps aren't always aware on what to do either.

I'm not sure if Raphael answered your question about the 'step in' problem. In most cases ebay hasn't been asked to step in at that point as the seller has agreed to a refund but they just haven't agreed to pay for return shipping. So technically, the buyer should be able to ask ebay to step in...However, I've read a few posts about that option not always showing although I'm not sure if those posts were about a similar situation. If this is a problem in a situation like this, I wonder if once the seller agrees to the return that the process is stalled until the buyer enters a tracking number to show that the item is being returned??

Also, as I recall, when the matter of sellers paying return shipping was first introduced, the return shipping cost was capped at what the seller paid to send the item.

I'm positive that was never said. Could you be thinking about the hassle free returns program? But the following rule is only in effect in both parties are in the U.S.

When you use hassle-free returns, your USPS return shipping rate is never more than the original outbound rate, provided that you purchase eBay shipping labels for both the original shipment and the return.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/return-process.html#shipping-charges

To say 'No matter how expensive' opens the gates to disgruntled buyers using FEDEX overnight express to return an item at a cost of maybe $80 that cost $10 to send to the buyer by mail. And may be worth only $20. Good way to whack the seller.

I guess that could be prevented by the seller doing some research first and then specifying which service they would pay for. But that's easier said than done if there are language issues.

Honestly, I don't have a problem with paying return shipping if I have made a mistake but I don't think that it should be forced for international sales until ebay has a proper system set up with some guidelines.

afantiques · ‎08-20-2015

I am fairly sure that the bit about the return cost came from the original seller update announcement about seller funded returns. (Not hassle free returns) but of course, they can and do change the wording of things and the old version vanishes.

The apparent quotes are confusing me a little, I am dead sure I never used the word issues to mean problems. I wince every time I hear this banal fuzzy-speak. 🙂

gullerud · ‎08-20-2015

I have refunded money the few times I have had to. I am not a ''miser''. My issue with this buyer was I know what he has is no bootleg item .. he reminds me of Bush and Cheney -- say 'weapons of mass destruction' enough times and half the U.S> will believe you .. say 'bootleg' enough here (and don't we all hate those jerks?) and everyone in this thread will believe him.

He got all his dough back. Can the man who says he always pays for shipping but only sells postage stamps and the guy who has been on ebay since 2008 but has not bought or sold one item please just get off your self righteous high horses and get on with your lives? It's dead, babe. Let it go.

pierrelebel · ‎08-20-2015

"He got all his dough back"

Could you please elaborate.

mater721 · ‎08-20-2015

"...and everyone in this thread will believe him."

What leads you to believe this?

A few posters (myself included) find your communication skills... unprofessional. But I don't recall many saying you are "guilty".

marnotom! · ‎08-20-2015

@gullerud wrote:

Can the man who says he always pays for shipping but only sells postage stamps and the guy who has been on ebay since 2008 but has not bought or sold one item please just get off your self righteous high horses and get on with your lives?

One of those "guys" invited you to this thread to present your side of the story.

The phrase "biting the hand that feeds you" comes to mind.

hafoster · ‎08-20-2015

”I now suspect it really is a DVD-5 instead of a DVD-9, which would explain the loss of video quality (compressed to fit on smaller media).”

stick the DVD into a computer. if you can see the file sizes, dates and times, it's a bootleg

bootlegs don't have copy protection

gullerud · ‎08-21-2015

"Could you please elaborate."

He got his money back plus the price of shipping cost.

Ebay has officially closed this case.

fh991586 · ‎08-23-2015

I waited for the dust to settle before replying here, since some replies needed moderation by eBay staff.

Yes, I got a complete refund, and now I don't have a message from eBay asking me to send back the item. Actually, nothing is mentionned on the initial question as to why the case was opened. I find this lack of precision is not a good thing, because there is no proof of any kind left to see or come back to.

But meanwhile, I was able to purchase locally a real box set to use as example for showing how the first one was indeed a copy. And that was the main problem here: the seller never acknowledged the possibility that it was a bootleg, hence the communication fiasco. It costed me a mere $10 more than what I got back from this cancelled auction!

Here are some of the things to look at:

1- Bar codes: the copy has a fuzzy bar code (like a print from a lower resolution scan), while the original is clean cut.

2- The 20th Century logos are of less quality on the copy than the original, suggesting a lower quality standard when printing (not likely when an official product)

3- Front cover shows a much better looking Ally McBeal with detailled hair instead of yellowed mush.

4- Back cover shows the complete skyline in pale grey, and better looking Ally McBeal, contrary to the copy which shows high contrast.

5- The individual cases of the original boxset are regular plastic ones, while the copy is a cheap printed cardboard with glued plastic inlays, while individual dvds show more precise color and detail on original issue than the copies.

6- The printing job on the original box continues inside the packaging, unlike the copy which has a white portion (also a proof the copy didn't use the full original file while printing).

[No digital work was done on the picture I took, only cropping for a convenient look in a single file attachment.]

The funny thing is that the option lo leave feedback is still open in "My eBay Summary" page! I thought that a closed case would have removed any further action on this purchase...

That ends everything for me about this case. Thanks for everyone who tried to help in any way! And may this be a lesson to all, including myself.