eBay

momcqueen · ‎06-23-2016

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/politics/online-shopping-cross-border-duties-taxes-1.3647965
 
Why the government keeps spoiling your online bargains: Neil Macdonald
Neil Macdonald · Senior Correspondent · CBC News As any Canadian who's ever naively bought anything on the American version of eBay (or, for that matter, any U.S. retail website) must by now know, Ottawa is determined to spoil your bargain.
If the purchase is a penny over $20 Cdn, a federal customs agent will intercept it, open it, delay it, add federal and provincial sales taxes, and, depending on the origin of the merchandise, perhaps pile on some duty charges — basically protectionist taxes.
By the time the government is done, the price of the package can easily rise by 50 per cent. And of course customs brokers usually have to wet their beaks, inflating the final cost of the average package by another 20, 30 or 40 per cent.
U.S. duty-free limit for web purchases 40 times higher than Canada's 76% of Canadians shopped online last year Basically, Ottawa has ensured that shipping across our border is such an expensive, paperwork-heavy pain that a lot of American merchants and eBay sellers simply don't bother shipping to Canada....
 
Read more to get to the part that says this study commissioned by eBay Canada.

momcqueen · ‎07-01-2016

I agree. I don't object to paying taxes as much as I dislike losing money on the dollar.

00nevermind00 · ‎07-02-2016

I've been reading this whole thread with great interest and attention.

I view the ludicrous, completely outdated $20 limit as nothing more than an irritant. If you scrupulously avoid buying items that ship with the GSP or with courriers such as Fedex or, worse, UPS, and if you also avoid sellers that use fancy methods such as Express Mail International, your chances of having your packages slip through untaxed are very high.

Still, the limit seems unfair to many. And when something seems unfair, people try to find ways around it. Hence the requests (which sometimes probably come off as demands) to underdeclare or to declare as a gift. And there are those who have their purchases sent to a US address. I wonder how many suffer from sudden amnesia when they cross the border with their goods?

I understand the need to protect Canadian retailers. But having worked for one for a number of years, I also understand that they need to streamline and become more efficient. Increased competition is the best way to achieve this. The one I used to work for was so top-heavy that it could have crumbled under its own weight at any time. Even the most insignificant decision had to be approved by a whole slew of people. Yet customers were hard-pressed to find any staff on the floor when they needed help.

I don't think our limit should be anywhere near $800. We are not the US. But it should at the very least be raised by an amount equal to the inflation rate between 1985 and 2016. And probably a bit more, to account for the fact that we now live in a globalized market and that Canadian retailers cannot operate in a cocoon of protective legislation.

pierrelebel · ‎07-02-2016

"that Canadian retailers cannot operate in a cocoon of protective legislation."

I do not see it as "protectionism" but simple fairness.

Why should a well managed competitive Ontario retailer be required to charge and remit 13% HST if the buyer could easily purchase by mail from the USA and avoid paying the tax?

00nevermind00 · ‎07-02-2016

How is the current $20 limit fair to Canadian retailers if it is not enforced (and likely unenforceable)?

How is if fair to Canadian retailers when buyers see it as unfair and find ways around it?

The limit has to be taken out of the 80s and into the 2010's. (Begin digression: and while they're at it, our MPs could also raise the $30,000.00 which can be earned by entrepreneurs before they have to start collecting and submitting GST/HST/PST and any other "ST" you want to think of. AFAIK this has never been raised, not even once, since the inception of the GST. End digression)

pierrelebel · ‎07-02-2016

The Canadian limit is not that different from what exists in Europe where they have national taxes (VAT) similar to our GST/HST. The USA does not have such national tax..

The fact it is not fully enforced for parcels coming through Canada Post is a problem. The unfairness is not the $20 limit, it is the lack of enforcement.

pierrelebel · ‎07-02-2016

For example, in the UK, the tax free postal import limit is £15

https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty

It is worth noting that Her Majesty charges VAT (20%) on the value of the goods and all shipping charges. The same rule applies all over Europe (VAT calculated on value of item and shipping charges)

In Canada, buyers only pay GST or HST (from 5% to 15% depending on province) on the value of the goods, excluding shipping charges.

pocomocomputing · ‎07-02-2016

@pierrelebel wrote:
For example, in the UK, the tax free postal import limit is £15

https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty

It is worth noting that Her Majesty charges VAT (20%) on the value of the goods and all shipping charges. The same rule applies all over Europe (VAT calculated on value of item and shipping charges)

In Canada, buyers only pay GST or HST (from 5% to 15% depending on province) on the value of the goods, excluding shipping charges.

Curiosity question.

Why do some countries charge VAT on the value of the goods and shipping costs? Why add in the shipping cost? What is the reason for this?

pierrelebel · ‎07-02-2016

I am guessing to raise more money for their government or maybe to minimize tax fraud by importers claiming lower price of the item and higher shipping charge (if shipping charge was not taxable)

momcqueen · ‎07-02-2016

A border official at Canada Customs explained to me it was as calculated goods plus shipping to equal the total value of dollars LOST from Canadian coffers. But that was before they dropped postage.

pocomocomputing · ‎07-02-2016

I found this web page titled "Buying goods online coming from a non-European Union country".

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/common/buying_online/buying_goods/within_non_eu_en.htm

I did not understand this line regarding what amount is used for the exemption limit. I understand it to mean the limit for exemption is based on value without shipping costs and duties. If over this limit, then VAT applies to the total with shipping and duties.

VAT is not due when the total value of all goods in a consignment (value not inclusive of custom duties or transport costs) is less than a threshold. The threshold may vary from 10 euros to 22 euros, depending on the EU country. Certain countries, however, exclude mail orders from the exemption.

pierrelebel · ‎07-02-2016

" I understand it to mean the limit for exemption is based on value without shipping costs and duties. If over this limit, then VAT applies to the total with shipping and duties."

You are correct in your understanding.

marnotom! · ‎07-02-2016

@00nevermind00 wrote:

I don't think our limit should be anywhere near $800. We are not the US. But it should at the very least be raised by an amount equal to the inflation rate between 1985 and 2016. And probably a bit more, to account for the fact that we now live in a globalized market and that Canadian retailers cannot operate in a cocoon of protective legislation.

The $800 limit in the US applies to duty only. Individual US states that charge "use tax" have no such limit. However, they're also pretty hamstrung when it comes to the means available to them for collecting it, and "use tax" applies not just to international sales but sales made from other states as well.

marnotom! · ‎07-02-2016

@pierrelebel wrote:

In Canada, buyers only pay GST or HST (from 5% to 15% depending on province) on the value of the goods, excluding shipping charges.

My wife's recent purchases from an American online retailer shipping by Express Mail have had BC PST charged on them as well, Pierre, and I believe this was also the case back in our early days of buying online when more items were stopped and assessed tax by CBSA.

However, GSP purchases do not appear to have the equivalent of BC PST applied to the import charges. Go figure.

pierrelebel · ‎07-03-2016

Some provinces who do not collect HST have a deal with the federal government to collect PST on their behalf.

It used to be that Canada Customs would charge 5% GST and 8% PST for goods coming into Ontario.,

Now they charge 13% HST.

momcqueen · ‎07-03-2016

@00nevermind00 wrote:
I've been reading this whole thread with great interest and attention.

I view the ludicrous, completely outdated $20 limit as nothing more than an irritant. If you scrupulously avoid buying items that ship with the GSP or with courriers such as Fedex or, worse, UPS, and if you also avoid sellers that use fancy methods such as Express Mail International, your chances of having your packages slip through untaxed are very high.

Still, the limit seems unfair to many. And when something seems unfair, people try to find ways around it. Hence the requests (which sometimes probably come off as demands) to underdeclare or to declare as a gift. And there are those who have their purchases sent to a US address. I wonder how many suffer from sudden amnesia when they cross the border with their goods?

I understand the need to protect Canadian retailers. But having worked for one for a number of years, I also understand that they need to streamline and become more efficient. Increased competition is the best way to achieve this. The one I used to work for was so top-heavy that it could have crumbled under its own weight at any time. Even the most insignificant decision had to be approved by a whole slew of people. Yet customers were hard-pressed to find any staff on the floor when they needed help.

I don't think our limit should be anywhere near $800. We are not the US. But it should at the very least be raised by an amount equal to the inflation rate between 1985 and 2016. And probably a bit more, to account for the fact that we now live in a globalized market and that Canadian retailers cannot operate in a cocoon of protective legislation.

I view that as being possibly the dumbest thing that one could ever consider.

Customs officers need no warrant nor identifiable probable cause to do virtually anything they want to you or your vehicle at the border crossing. All you have to do is act even a little weird and your plans for the next 90 minutes to six hours have been made for you. I was once told by a Mountie that even he got nervous at border crossings simply because the CCRA agents can do whatever they like to whomever they like for any reason they like. Case in point: https://www.kelownanow.com/watercooler/news/news/Kelowna/16/05/25/Kelowna_woman_warns_others_after_t...

Whatever I choose to ship to my USA address, I then self-declare and pay taxes on import. I consider it a cost of doing business this way. It has never seemed prudent to try and save a few bucks by what amounts to smuggling. I wouldn't consider a criminal record and impounded vehicle worth the risk of saving 13 per cent taxes.