eBay

tyler@ebay · ‎02-26-2019

As we work on building a banner year in 2019 we want to further simplify the listing process and strategically focus effort where we feel it will bring you business and make us more competitive in the e-commerce landscape. Read about the specific changes to listing format and catalogue adoption here and here and let us know your questions below, we’ll be here to address them and work on getting you answers!

Tyler,

lotzofuniquegoodies · ‎02-27-2019

Would this apply to GTC as being the only option? If a seller wants to close their store how difficult/expensive will it be for cancellation fees?

Negative option billing is a business practice in which customers are given goods or services that were not previously provided, and must either continue to pay for the service or specifically decline it in advance of billing.Wikipedia

Canadian law[edit]

In Canada, Parliament attempted to outlaw the practice in 1996 after a public outcry the previous year when most cable television companies added a package of new specialty services to their lineups in this manner. This had previously been the standard manner of adding new channels to cable television service, but had not previously attracted the type of controversy that was raised by the 1995 channel launch, in part because the 1995 launch entailed a large number of channels which launched concurrently, whereas previous additions had only involved one or two channels at a time.

MP Roger Gallaway introduced a private-member's bill in 1996 to ban the practice which passed first reading, but died on the order paper when the House was dissolved for the 1997 elections. It was raised again in 1999, and was passed. Michael Janigan of the Public Interest Advocacy Centre stated:

The concern associated with the practice of negative option billing has its origins in the nature of a contract of purchase and sale, as recognized in common law. As every first year law student learns, such a contract consists of an offer and an acceptance. The history of consumer protection statutes is a chronicle of legislators attempting to ensure that the offer is conveyed without misrepresentation by the vendor to a purchaser who has an opportunity to make an informed choice to accept or refuse the offer. This is because a contract that is made with a consumer who is unaware of key elements of the contract such as price, quantity and quality of the goods to be delivered is subversive of the efficiency of the market as a whole.[7]

The Ontario government also outlawed the practice in July 2005.[8] Ontario's regulations prohibiting negative option billing do not protect consumers from owing for goods or services that they have agreed to receive.[9] Additionally, Alberta has outlawed negative billing in 1998.

US law[edit]

According to the Federal Trade Commission, unsolicited goods are considered a gift, and the recipient is not required to pay for or return them.[3][4]

This is different to situations where a customer signs up for a service or club without reading fine print and agrees to purchase goods through the mail.[3][5]

A notable example is the class-action lawsuit against Scholastic Corporation by consumers who felt "harassed, deceived, intimidated, and threatened" when they tried to cancel membership.[6]

-Lotz

2nd-time-around-jewelry · ‎02-27-2019

I just thought of a crazy stupid idea that might work for us who have a store & pay monthly & not yearly. At the end of each month close or cancel your store subscription & then on the first of each month open or resubscribe to a store. Then you don't have to watch to end listings.

tryubik-useonlyasdirected · ‎02-27-2019

@lotzofuniquegoodies

This is a huge concern. Both my stores renewed at the beginning of February until the usage that business continue as its evolved over the past 10 years. They renewed with an annual subscription because this is the best rate. eBay is threatening to force updates that invalidate my store purchase or usage. If this change goes through I have little use to continue with multiple store fronts. I have a third store that will no longer be renewed (my intention was to renew and upgrade).

msmaggie060 · ‎02-27-2019

@2nd-time-around-jewelry wrote:
I just thought of a crazy stupid idea that might work for us who have a store & pay monthly & not yearly. At the end of each month close or cancel your store subscription & then on the first of each month open or resubscribe to a store. Then you don't have to watch to end listings.

I don’t believe that cancelling your store cancels your listings. It just cancels the store, I think your listings stay live, they just don’t show under a store format.

lotzofuniquegoodies · ‎02-27-2019

@tryubik-useonlyasdirected

@2nd-time-around-jewelry

Very valid points along with the creeping issue mentioned earlier. Changing to month to month would also mean increased fees plus the penalty for canceling any subscription early. I signed up for a store for the sole reason of having access to 30 day listings at a quantity/price point that worked for me.

-Lotz

around_again_records · ‎02-27-2019

@lotzofuniquegoodies wrote:
Would this apply to GTC as being the only option? If a seller wants to close their store how difficult/expensive will it be for cancellation fees?

Negative option billing is a business practice in which customers are given goods or services that were not previously provided, and must either continue to pay for the service or specifically decline it in advance of billing.Wikipedia

Canadian law[edit]
In Canada, Parliament attempted to outlaw the practice in 1996 after a public outcry the previous year when most cable television companies added a package of new specialty services to their lineups in this manner. This had previously been the standard manner of adding new channels to cable television service, but had not previously attracted the type of controversy that was raised by the 1995 channel launch, in part because the 1995 launch entailed a large number of channels which launched concurrently, whereas previous additions had only involved one or two channels at a time.
MP Roger Gallaway introduced a private-member's bill in 1996 to ban the practice which passed first reading, but died on the order paper when the House was dissolved for the 1997 elections. It was raised again in 1999, and was passed. Michael Janigan of the Public Interest Advocacy Centre stated:
The concern associated with the practice of negative option billing has its origins in the nature of a contract of purchase and sale, as recognized in common law. As every first year law student learns, such a contract consists of an offer and an acceptance. The history of consumer protection statutes is a chronicle of legislators attempting to ensure that the offer is conveyed without misrepresentation by the vendor to a purchaser who has an opportunity to make an informed choice to accept or refuse the offer. This is because a contract that is made with a consumer who is unaware of key elements of the contract such as price, quantity and quality of the goods to be delivered is subversive of the efficiency of the market as a whole.[7]
The Ontario government also outlawed the practice in July 2005.[8] Ontario's regulations prohibiting negative option billing do not protect consumers from owing for goods or services that they have agreed to receive.[9] Additionally, Alberta has outlawed negative billing in 1998.

US law[edit]
According to the Federal Trade Commission, unsolicited goods are considered a gift, and the recipient is not required to pay for or return them.[3][4]
This is different to situations where a customer signs up for a service or club without reading fine print and agrees to purchase goods through the mail.[3][5]
A notable example is the class-action lawsuit against Scholastic Corporation by consumers who felt "harassed, deceived, intimidated, and threatened" when they tried to cancel membership.[6]

-Lotz

I was thinking along these same lines with regards to this new Good Until Cancelled policy. I remember the whole kerfluffle with the Cable channels. The problem is I don't understand legal speak. Is this new Good Until Cancelled policy Legal under our laws and why or why not?

around_again_records · ‎02-27-2019

From our estimates, we expect to see fewer insertion fees charged with this.
Could you tell me how you do your estimates? Are you factoring in that people will just quit listing PERIOD because they don't want to get dinged with a lot of fees when they miss the cutoff time to end the listing?
but as the new format is adopted we anticipate much more traffic from sites like Google as your items are fully indexed with them.
So are you saying that if I do a google search for Gone with the Wind, someone who has a Good Till Cancelled Listing for a Gone With the Wind book will get a hit and if I have a 30 day listing for the same, I will not get a hit? Please explain how this criteria works

The intent is to get more eyes on your products and increase the likelihood that they sell (which means more money for you, and a larger amount in Final Value Fees for us).

I do see your point about the the 30 days vs 31 days in a month. I will get that concern passed on. At this point, I think you could consider the day you listed something (the 2nd or 3rd) to help. Avoiding the 1st of the month as a listing day could help reduce the number of times you see this happen, though as you point out it will happen inevitably. Thanks!

esclyons · ‎02-27-2019

i as well am not happy with this change.. As a lot of my listings get tweaked per ebay instructions, to produce a sale... with listings just rolling over, i will not get the opportunity to do such adjustments ..Also i keep an eye on my allotment of listings remaining towards the end of the month. And if i am going to go over, i will hold some back to the next month, then relist.. There is no way Ebay has thought this through.. Why can we not have both options available.. It is way easier for us as seller's to monitor our auctions the way we see fit..

Can you clarify the auction not ending, when the quantity reaches zero.. this would only pertain to listings that started with more than 1 in the quantity, and out of stock feature enabled.

If we list 1 item gtc, and it sells it would go into our sold list and have to be relisted, correct??

Please reconsider, this decision to have all 30 day listings switch to gtc, i believe it would be more work for us sellers. And there is no way it would improve our search results if everyone is using it, as it would be another bottle neck...

tyler@ebay · ‎02-27-2019

@around_again_records wrote:

From our estimates, we expect to see fewer insertion fees charged with this.

Could you tell me how you do your estimates? Are you factoring in that people will just quit listing PERIOD because they don't want to get dinged with a lot of fees when they miss the cutoff time to end the listing?

but as the new format is adopted we anticipate much more traffic from sites like Google as your items are fully indexed with them.

So are you saying that if I do a google search for Gone with the Wind, someone who has a Good Till Cancelled Listing for a Gone With the Wind book will get a hit and if I have a 30 day listing for the same, I will not get a hit? Please explain how this criteria works

The intent is to get more eyes on your products and increase the likelihood that they sell (which means more money for you, and a larger amount in Final Value Fees for us).

I do see your point about the the 30 days vs 31 days in a month. I will get that concern passed on. At this point, I think you could consider the day you listed something (the 2nd or 3rd) to help. Avoiding the 1st of the month as a listing day could help reduce the number of times you see this happen, though as you point out it will happen inevitably. Thanks!

Hi @around_again_records - I don't have specifics to share with you on how we make that estimate (I don't have that data myself).

External traffic engines like Google are rewarding more established items, so as items become more tenured with GTC renewals they are more likely to be featured in results. This doesn't invalidate other factors in their algorithm like relevence and keyword, but a move to GTC allows us to make sure that all sellers get additional exposure in rankings.

Tyler,

esclyons · ‎02-27-2019

Just a quick thought, if i was a walmart, or target , etc. with 100's of the same items, i would choose to use the good till cancelled option.. But most of us are not big chain stores, and we deal in 1 item, of this and that.. so with that being said there should remain 2 options for listing duration's as all seller's are not in the same situation..

tyler@ebay · ‎02-27-2019

@esclyons wrote:

i as well am not happy with this change.. As a lot of my listings get tweaked per ebay instructions, to produce a sale... with listings just rolling over, i will not get the opportunity to do such adjustments ..Also i keep an eye on my allotment of listings remaining towards the end of the month. And if i am going to go over, i will hold some back to the next month, then relist.. There is no way Ebay has thought this through.. Why can we not have both options available.. It is way easier for us as seller's to monitor our auctions the way we see fit..

Can you clarify the auction not ending, when the quantity reaches zero.. this would only pertain to listings that started with more than 1 in the quantity, and out of stock feature enabled.

If we list 1 item gtc, and it sells it would go into our sold list and have to be relisted, correct??

Please reconsider, this decision to have all 30 day listings switch to gtc, i believe it would be more work for us sellers. And there is no way it would improve our search results if everyone is using it, as it would be another bottle neck...

Hi @esclyons - when it comes to auction-style listings there have been no changes, you are still allowed to list an auction with various durations.

In mid-march fixed-price listings will need to be listed in the Good Til Cancelled format - regardless of the quantity (1 or more).

When it comes to the 'Out of Stock' feature that would keep items as quantity 0 (but still live) for up to 3 renewals, even if they only had 1 quantity. You can choose to turn this feature on for your account by doing the following:

How to enable the Out of Stock option

Go to My eBay > Account > Site Preferences.
In the Selling Preferences section, click Show next to Sell Your Item form and listings.
Click Edit next to Use the out-of-stock option.
Make your selection and click Submit.

You do not need to have this feature turned on if you would prefer items to end completely and move to 'sold' when they hit 0 quantity instead.

Tyler,

reallynicestamps · ‎02-27-2019

@forester_studios

...I like the flexibility of having listings on the number of days I choose. Sometimes I list items at 5 or 10 days to motivate buyers to make a purchase.

This has puzzled me from time to time.

How does the customer know that the item will disappear in a few days because it is listed GTC and Day 30 is approaching compared to FP/10 days?

I know the ending time is on the listing, but the customer does not know whether it has been up for months or for hours, only the time left in the listing.

reallynicestamps · ‎02-27-2019

tyler@ebay

Google are rewarding more established items, so as items become more tenured with GTC renewals they are more likely to be featured in results.

Hmm.

So if we have an item that isn't selling (since many of us are OOAK sellers) that item is more likely to show up in a Google Search than a newly listed item which has no history?

This is not related to GTC listings where the seller has dozens or hundreds of the item on hand.

tyler@ebay · ‎02-27-2019

@reallynicestamps wrote:

@forester_studios

...I like the flexibility of having listings on the number of days I choose. Sometimes I list items at 5 or 10 days to motivate buyers to make a purchase.

This has puzzled me from time to time.

How does the customer know that the item will disappear in a few days because it is listed GTC and Day 30 is approaching compared to FP/10 days?

I know the ending time is on the listing, but the customer does not know whether it has been up for months or for hours, only the time left in the listing.

Good question @reallynicestamps - from a buyer's perspective we present it as a listing with 30 days. It does the same countdown (and receives the same 'ending soon!' notation and search boosts). Thanks!

Tyler,

tyler@ebay · ‎02-27-2019

@reallynicestamps wrote:

tyler@ebay

Google are rewarding more established items, so as items become more tenured with GTC renewals they are more likely to be featured in results.

Hmm.

So if we have an item that isn't selling (since many of us are OOAK sellers) that item is more likely to show up in a Google Search than a newly listed item which has no history?

This is not related to GTC listings where the seller has dozens or hundreds of the item on hand.

Hi @reallynicestamps - tenure is a factor, yes. So an older item (say, 2 or 3 months as opposed to fresh) is more likely to be returned in search with them.

There are other factors as well, things like relevance, keyword terms, etc. But that's my understanding.

Tyler,

around_again_records · ‎02-27-2019

tyler@ebay wrote:
@around_again_records wrote:
From our estimates, we expect to see fewer insertion fees charged with this.
Could you tell me how you do your estimates? Are you factoring in that people will just quit listing PERIOD because they don't want to get dinged with a lot of fees when they miss the cutoff time to end the listing?
but as the new format is adopted we anticipate much more traffic from sites like Google as your items are fully indexed with them.
So are you saying that if I do a google search for Gone with the Wind, someone who has a Good Till Cancelled Listing for a Gone With the Wind book will get a hit and if I have a 30 day listing for the same, I will not get a hit? Please explain how this criteria works

The intent is to get more eyes on your products and increase the likelihood that they sell (which means more money for you, and a larger amount in Final Value Fees for us).

I do see your point about the the 30 days vs 31 days in a month. I will get that concern passed on. At this point, I think you could consider the day you listed something (the 2nd or 3rd) to help. Avoiding the 1st of the month as a listing day could help reduce the number of times you see this happen, though as you point out it will happen inevitably. Thanks!

Hi @around_again_records - I don't have specifics to share with you on how we make that estimate (I don't have that data myself).

External traffic engines like Google are rewarding more established items, so as items become more tenured with GTC renewals they are more likely to be featured in results. This doesn't invalidate other factors in their algorithm like relevence and keyword, but a move to GTC allows us to make sure that all sellers get additional exposure in rankings.

Fiddle de de - Good grief, so we are supposed pay fees and keep listing an item that is not selling so that we can get more exposure on Google - Really? That just does not make sense.

Also, it has always been my understanding, that items that have been listed for a long time without selling get less exposure on an eBay search. So we MIGHT increase exposure with Google but decrease exposure with eBay by continuously listing an item that is not selling???? I'm sorry I just don't get it. When it comes right down to it, I do my searching on the site where I plan to buy, NOT on google. I search Google for information, it annoys me when I get all the for sale stuff when I do a Google search - that's just me though, I don't know how other people shop and/or do research.

My only solution to this is that in order to make sure I do not get dinged for more fees when listings automatically turn over when I don't want them to, is to make darn sure I end the listing early, probably after 28 or 29 days, just to make sure I'm not late. Seeing as some people seem to wait until the last minute to make a purchase (waiting for a better price somewhere else or whatever the reason), I don't see how that helps me as a seller or eBay. I would also find it very annoying as a Buyer if an item I'm interested in disappears before the time is up.

Bottom line is that I do not generally want to list items for more than 30 days. If they have not sold in that amount of time, it is not the right time to sell them. I might list them at a later date or not, but if I have to use GTC I will have to take the extra time to end the listing early. That along with many of the other changes made over the last few years, just cuts into my time to make new listings, find new stock, and generally function here.

This is a BAD and horribly time consuming IDEA. So far you have not given me any reason to think otherwise. I'd love to be convinced how this can possibly work to a sellers advantage. (except someone selling large quantities of the same items, and they are probably using GTC already) if we don't use GTC there is a reason, it's because it is not practical for many of us to do so.

vmm32vxd · ‎02-27-2019

"The general overall goal of this change is to simplify the management of fixe price listings, specifically to increase the likelihood of conversion. "

Actually it will do the opposite for many. It makes it more complicated not simpler because now some of us will have to end manually at day 29. And the sell through rate will be lower because we will lose that day 30.

lotzofuniquegoodies · ‎02-28-2019

tyler@ebay

As I understand there has been a known issue for ages inside seller settings. I have specifically noted in my settings that I DO NOT ship to Brazil or the Russian Federation. I have re-confirmed and this is still in my settings. With both relist and sell similar when updating a listing each of those are pre-checked off EVERY time as I edit a listing in the Additional Shipping Location section and require updating. A nuisance but something I have become accustomed to doing.

Also of note since the update with the shipping rates adding Small PacketAir/USA Tracked 1 to 2 KG and INTL Small Packet Air/INTL Tracked 1 to 2 KG I ALWAYS arrange in a set order as applicable:

US Small Packet
US Tracked
US Expedited
US Xpresspost
Intl Small Packet Air
Intl Tracked
Intl Xpresspost

Now as these listings come up for relisting this order is jumbled. (Lower rates are the preference due to better search results). With these problems still in play the concept of automatic GTC complicate things even further. Are these problems going to be resolved before this update is fully implemented?

-Lotz

PS. I am hoping the jumbling is a 1 time fix. Will be able to confirm with my next pass through.

forester_studios · ‎02-28-2019

Thanks for posting such a well thought out and concise summation of this change to Fixed price listings. I agree with everything you say. In the past ebay has always implied that long term, slow moving items are steadily dropped lower in search results. I want the choice every 30 days to remove or change slow listings.

As you say the only choice now will be to end listings around the 28/29 day mark. It will eliminate the last minute buyers. As well watched items often go unsold, so ending them early will mean never knowing if a sale might have happened. Since I often list throughout the month this change means constantly spending time checking to see what is ending. I plan to either remove or bundle slow sellers as they will possibly be all but invisible in search.

I too have never searched google to find ebay items. I search ebay to find ebay items. Does this change imply that ebay has lost confidence in their own search engine?

The bottom line is this change will do nothing substantial to help small to mid range sellers. Large Sellers probably already use GTC as they sell so much volume the fees don't concern them. As well large sellers often sell multi quantity items that actually benefits from GTC. Small sellers often sell unique items that shorter listings may move quicker.

I remember a few years ago when they forced us to list only in Canadian dollars as they said it would increase sales to Canadian buyers. For me this did turn out to be true. However my sales to USA buyers dropped substantially from about 60% of sales to probably around 25/30%. Bottom line, no real increase in profits (kind of like moving the deck chairs on the Titanic, ebay).

Anyway we sellers have to again change our business strategies due to ebay's constant changes. If it made selling easier or more profitable I wouldn't even be writing this. However I am concerned this change will have unforeseen consequences in how items are found. Hopefully it won't hurt sales too much. Thanks again for your post.

tryubik-useonlyasdirected · ‎02-28-2019

Suddenly they care about google and not the integrity of their own search engine? The stated rationale makes no sense. They have been spamming google with API noise for years; I can see no place where this move legitimizes those spam sites or benefits google search in the least. If anything the opposite.

If I am using google it is explicitly NOT to use eBay. eBay is large enough to attract buyers directly (that's why everyone loves it). The only thing this does is throw a wrench into seller tools and for whose benefit?

If they wish to encourage larger storefronts there has to be a better way (until this I was planning on upgrading one if not two stores now I'm debating dropping one). Is this corporate blindness intentional disruption of legitimate sales & a free and equal internet?

If our listings will not have a forced downgrade out of the starting block I sure hope this doesn't mean the possibility of even slower sales? As a seller of Antiques & Collectibles (what got this eBay party started) my Feb sales are down 60% this year compared to Feb in all other years as well as the cumulative Feb. average. My offerings have rolled with demand and remain relevant.

Are they changing their internal search engine to accommodate forced GTC's? Or are we incorrect and GTC's are not downgraded in the internal search engine?