Comments about the Global Shipping Program

[kalvin@ebay.com]

Feel free to share your thoughts about the Global Shipping Program here. 

A few questions to get the ball rolling:

• What has worked well for you with the Global Shipping Program?
• Any ideas to help improve the experience for Canadian buyers?
• What has deterred you from buying items offered using the Global Shipping Program?
• How have you managed to search for items outside the program?

Please try & keep the comments constructive 🙂

If you have any questions about the program, please post them here.

[micaylah]

"...ebay is screwing everyone over int he name of greed and the only way this is going to stop is to boycott them."

In reality boycotting them will never happen, for a myriad of reasons. There are too many Buyers out there that say they are seeing their sales increase because of the GSP. I do think that perhaps their idea of the increase is a little skewed.

People are now coming around to the idea of recycling, upcycling, and buying online isn't such a scary thing anymore and it saves money. Something North America is needing to do now because of our economic situation. I do believe these are all valid reasons for sales increases. Is it because of the GSP? I think not. I know too many buyers that will adamantly stay away from that scheme and move on too other like items that don't opt into this.

But. Some things can be done. Mass email and snail mail letters, petitions and the like "might" work to have them revisit this Program.

Also, could eBay be locked into a timed contract with PB? If so, they would be in breech of contract if they discontinued it. That doesn't mean that it could be renegotiated with tighter amendments and more attention to the law.

As I mentioned before, I had a $325, chair come from The Netherlands and my customs at the door was $50. A pair of boots I coveted that were in the Program (with shipping) cost almost as much as the boots themselves (around $50 and shipped from the US to Canada). It should be noted that these boots haven't budged in sales since I started watching them a while ago.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/131093828474?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/221271207524?var=520165223124&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2...

I do feel something should be done, but I think this subject has been rehashed to the point that now is the time.

Any thoughts?

[marnotom!]

You want thoughts? Here we go...

---

@micaylah wrote:

Some things can be done. Mass email and snail mail letters, petitions and the like "might" work to have them revisit this Program.

---

I don't doubt that there are suits and grunts working to sort out various issues with the GSP right now.  The problem is that Pitney Bowes seems to work at a snail's pace compared to eBay.  This is probably complicated by the fact that "solutions" that may work for Canada may not be so workable in a European Union country for whatever reason.

---

@micaylah wrote:

Also, could eBay be locked into a timed contract with PB? If so, they would be in breech of contract if they discontinued it. That doesn't mean that it could be renegotiated with tighter amendments and more attention to the law.

---

There's likely an exit clause in PBI's contract with eBay but I doubt it takes consumer dissatisfaction into consideration.  eBay itself would have to have some sort of issue with Pitney Bowes' handling of the GSP, and I suspect that as long as those at eBay are under the impression that the program is helping their bottom line and increasing value to shareholders/stakeholders, there's really no reason to discontinue the program.

---

@micaylah wrote:

As I mentioned before, I had a $325, chair come from The Netherlands and my customs at the door was $50. A pair of boots I coveted that were in the Program (with shipping) cost almost as much as the boots themselves (around $50 and shipped from the US to Canada). It should be noted that these boots haven't budged in sales since I started watching them a while ago.

---

I checked the import charges for the boots for both BC and Ontario and I see import charges of US$17.23 and US$22.57.  The shipping cost at $11.76 seems extremely reasonable to me for a pair of boots shipped from the United States.

What may be inflating the import charges for the boots is the fact that while China is stated in the listing description as their country of origin, that information isn't actually in the Item Specifics section itself.  It's likely that without this information, the GSP fee calculator is using a duty charge of around 18% on the boots instead of something much lower for an item of Chinese origin.

You may want to send the seller a message requesting that they add this information to the listing and see if it affects the import charges.

---

@micaylah wrote:

I do feel something should be done, but I think this subject has been rehashed to the point that now is the time.

---

The Global Shipping Program is a tool.  Like all tools, there are instances where it more or less makes sense to use it, and instances where it doesn't.  I think sellers need to be educated on its use.  eBay's general rule of thumb that it's not usually a good fit for items with a price of under US$50 isn't particularly useful, in my opinion.  There are several factors that need to be looked at and I doubt that most eBay sellers who don't generally ship internationally would be inclined to do this.

In addition, there's the complication of sellers accidentally opting themselves into the program and have no clue how it works in the first place.

The Global Shipping Program is doing nothing unique.  Amazon has a similar program in place although I don't think it's nearly as widespread in use as the GSP.  Canada Post used to own a service called Borderfree which appears to have similar conditions when it comes to the remittance and reimbursement of taxes and duty as the GSP.  If we want to "do something" about the GSP, we need to find something substantive on which to challenge it, not just bleat that "it's too expennnnsivvvve!"  As I've noted elsewhere, the only thing I think may be truly questionable about how it's conducting business is the process in which it gives itself power of attorney on the importer's behalf, and that may be a simple matter on PBI's part to reword the terms and conditions in that respect to be something closer to that of Borderfree.

Apart from that, I think all we can do is post on the .com boards about what the GSP looks like to potential Canadian buyers.

[bp-elec1]

There is an even bigger problem with the GSP and Pitney Bowes.

They will not issue a receipt detailing the taxes as required under Canadian tax law.

It took almost a week to get a copy of what they call a receipt and it looks like something that was made up by a grade 5 class.

PB says they do not have to issue receipts unless asked for.

IMO this does not sound correct by Canadian tax laws as far as I can tell.

If you bring something in by any other carrier - you receive a detailed tax receipt - EG: UPS - Fedex - Post office

As far as I can tell so far the PB "receipt" is not legal since it does not have the required information on it and PB refuses to issue anything else.  What they issue is single page titled "Proof of Import Report" - In the cover email it references "VAT".

Fine if you are in Europe or countries that operate under the VAT model, but not in Canada.

My accountant tells me I had best hang onto every scrap of paper for each of the sales if I want my input tax credit to be valid.

I have a small registered Canadian business and collect and remit taxes under my tax number - so the taxes paid are input tax credits and money in my business.

At this point I would suggest that NO one use the GSP - Canada Post for all that we complain about it only charges $9.95 CDN for brokerage and handling - and then GST or HST on top IF required.

Quite often there are no additional charges and usually it is delivered right to your door if you have the parcel delivery service in your area.

(IMO) Not saying that GSP is not a legal service, but without legal receipts for money collected how do we know for sure that they are paying the taxes into the Canadian tax system. (IMO)

I am interested in finding out what other business people buying and selling on ebay have come across in reference to the GSP and Pitney Bowes.

[bp-elec1]

There is an even bigger problem with the GSP and Pitney Bowes.

They will not issue a receipt detailing the taxes as required under Canadian tax law.

It took almost a week to get a copy of what they call a receipt and it looks like something that was made up by a grade 5 class.

PB says they do not have to issue receipts unless asked for.

IMO this does not sound correct by Canadian tax laws as far as I can tell.

If you bring something in by any other carrier - you receive a detailed tax receipt - EG: UPS - Fedex - Post office

As far as I can tell so far the PB "receipt" is not legal since it does not have the required information on it and PB refuses to issue anything else.  What they issue is single page titled "Proof of Import Report" - In the cover email it references "VAT".

Fine if you are in Europe or countries that operate under the VAT model, but not in Canada.

My accountant tells me I had best hang onto every scrap of paper for each of the sales if I want my input tax credit to be valid.

I have a small registered Canadian business and collect and remit taxes under my tax number - so the taxes paid are input tax credits and money in my business.

At this point I would suggest that NO one use the GSP - Canada Post for all that we complain about it only charges $9.95 CDN for brokerage and handling - and then GST or HST on top IF required.

Quite often there are no additional charges and usually it is delivered right to your door if you have the parcel delivery service in your area.

(IMO) Not saying that GSP is not a legal service, but without legal receipts for money collected how do we know for sure that they are paying the taxes into the Canadian tax system. (IMO)

I am interested in finding out what other business people buying and selling on ebay have come across in reference to the GSP and Pitney Bowes.

[bp-elec1]

There is an even bigger problem with the GSP and Pitney Bowes.

They will not issue a receipt detailing the taxes as required under Canadian tax law.

It took almost a week to get a copy of what they call a receipt and it looks like something that was made up by a grade 5 class.

PB says they do not have to issue receipts unless asked for.

IMO this does not sound correct by Canadian tax laws as far as I can tell.

If you bring something in by any other carrier - you receive a detailed tax receipt - EG: UPS - Fedex - Post office

As far as I can tell so far the PB "receipt" is not legal since it does not have the required information on it and PB refuses to issue anything else.  What they issue is single page titled "Proof of Import Report" - In the cover email it references "VAT".

Fine if you are in Europe or countries that operate under the VAT model, but not in Canada.

My accountant tells me I had best hang onto every scrap of paper for each of the sales if I want my input tax credit to be valid.

I have a small registered Canadian business and collect and remit taxes under my tax number - so the taxes paid are input tax credits and money in my business.

At this point I would suggest that NO one use the GSP - Canada Post for all that we complain about it only charges $9.95 CDN for brokerage and handling - and then GST or HST on top IF required.

Quite often there are no additional charges and usually it is delivered right to your door if you have the parcel delivery service in your area.

(IMO) Not saying that GSP is not a legal service, but without legal receipts for money collected how do we know for sure that they are paying the taxes into the Canadian tax system. (IMO)

I am interested in finding out what other business people buying and selling on ebay have come across in reference to the GSP and Pitney Bowes.

[marnotom!]

---

@bp-elec1 wrote:

There is an even bigger problem with the GSP and Pitney Bowes.

They will not issue a receipt detailing the taxes as required under Canadian tax law.

It took almost a week to get a copy of what they call a receipt and it looks like something that was made up by a grade 5 class.

PB says they do not have to issue receipts unless asked for.

IMO this does not sound correct by Canadian tax laws as far as I can tell.

If you bring something in by any other carrier - you receive a detailed tax receipt - EG: UPS - Fedex - Post office

As far as I can tell so far the PB "receipt" is not legal since it does not have the required information on it and PB refuses to issue anything else.  What they issue is single page titled "Proof of Import Report" - In the cover email it references "VAT".

Fine if you are in Europe or countries that operate under the VAT model, but not in Canada.

My accountant tells me I had best hang onto every scrap of paper for each of the sales if I want my input tax credit to be valid.

I have a small registered Canadian business and collect and remit taxes under my tax number - so the taxes paid are input tax credits and money in my business.

At this point I would suggest that NO one use the GSP - Canada Post for all that we complain about it only charges $9.95 CDN for brokerage and handling - and then GST or HST on top IF required.

Quite often there are no additional charges and usually it is delivered right to your door if you have the parcel delivery service in your area.

(IMO) Not saying that GSP is not a legal service, but without legal receipts for money collected how do we know for sure that they are paying the taxes into the Canadian tax system. (IMO)

---

My understanding from eBay/Pitney Bowes' explanation of the GSP is that you won't normally receive a receipt for GST/HST for a GSP purchase because you haven't paid those taxes.  What you're actually doing is appointing Pitney Bowes to pay those taxes on your behalf.  Part of the "import charges" you pay are actually a repayment to Pitney Bowes for advancing those taxes to Canada Border Services/Revenue Canada.

If I'm reading the terms and conditions for Amazon Global correctly, that service doesn't issue receipts with taxes noted, either.  If you want to request what they term "documentation" for monies paid, you have to make a request to the shipper that handled your purchase, not Amazon itself.  I wonder how detailed that "documentation" is.

Have you ever received a shipment from the U.S. that was shipped through Borderfree, Bp-elect?  My wife made one ages ago so my memory is pretty dim.  I'm just wondering if and how taxes are noted on any receipts or documentation that service issues.

[marnotom!]

There is an even bigger problem with the GSP and Pitney Bowes.

They will not issue a receipt detailing the taxes as required under Canadian tax law.

It took almost a week to get a copy of what they call a receipt and it looks like something that was made up by a grade 5 class.

PB says they do not have to issue receipts unless asked for.

IMO this does not sound correct by Canadian tax laws as far as I can tell.

If you bring something in by any other carrier - you receive a detailed tax receipt - EG: UPS - Fedex - Post office

As far as I can tell so far the PB "receipt" is not legal since it does not have the required information on it and PB refuses to issue anything else.  What they issue is single page titled "Proof of Import Report" - In the cover email it references "VAT".

Fine if you are in Europe or countries that operate under the VAT model, but not in Canada.

My accountant tells me I had best hang onto every scrap of paper for each of the sales if I want my input tax credit to be valid.

I have a small registered Canadian business and collect and remit taxes under my tax number - so the taxes paid are input tax credits and money in my business.

At this point I would suggest that NO one use the GSP - Canada Post for all that we complain about it only charges $9.95 CDN for brokerage and handling - and then GST or HST on top IF required.

Quite often there are no additional charges and usually it is delivered right to your door if you have the parcel delivery service in your area.

(IMO) Not saying that GSP is not a legal service, but without legal receipts for money collected how do we know for sure that they are paying the taxes into the Canadian tax system. (IMO)

[bp-elec1]

I thought I had this posted earlier - Did the mods remove it??

There is an even bigger problem with the GSP and Pitney Bowes.

They will not issue a receipt detailing the taxes as required under Canadian tax law.

It took almost a week to get a copy of what they call a receipt and it looks like something that was made up by a grade 5 class.

PB says they do not have to issue receipts unless asked for.

IMO this does not sound correct by Canadian tax laws as far as I can tell.

If you bring something in by any other carrier - you receive a detailed tax receipt - EG: UPS - Fedex - Post office

As far as I can tell so far the PB "receipt" is not legal since it does not have the required information on it and PB refuses to issue anything else.  What they issue is single page titled "Proof of Import Report" - In the cover email it references "VAT".

Fine if you are in Europe or countries that operate under the VAT model, but not in Canada.

My accountant tells me I had best hang onto every scrap of paper for each of the sales if I want my input tax credit to be valid.

I have a small registered Canadian business and collect and remit taxes under my tax number - so the taxes paid are input tax credits and money in my business.

At this point I would suggest that NO one use the GSP - Canada Post for all that we complain about it only charges $9.95 CDN for brokerage and handling - and then GST or HST on top IF required.

Quite often there are no additional charges and usually it is delivered right to your door if you have the parcel delivery service in your area.

IMO- Not saying that GSP is not a legal service, but without legal receipts for money collected how do we know for sure that they are paying the taxes into the Canadian tax system. -IMO

I am interested in finding out what other business people buying and selling on ebay have come across in reference to the GSP and Pitney Bowes.

[bp-elec1]

I thought I had this posted earlier - Did the mods remove it??

There is an even bigger problem with the GSP and Pitney Bowes.

They will not issue a receipt detailing the taxes as required under Canadian tax law.

It took almost a week to get a copy of what they call a receipt and it looks like something that was made up by a grade 5 class.

PB says they do not have to issue receipts unless asked for.

IMO this does not sound correct by Canadian tax laws as far as I can tell.

If you bring something in by any other carrier - you receive a detailed tax receipt - EG: UPS - Fedex - Post office

As far as I can tell so far the PB "receipt" is not legal since it does not have the required information on it and PB refuses to issue anything else.  What they issue is single page titled "Proof of Import Report" - In the cover email it references "VAT".

Fine if you are in Europe or countries that operate under the VAT model, but not in Canada.

My accountant tells me I had best hang onto every scrap of paper for each of the sales if I want my input tax credit to be valid.

I have a small registered Canadian business and collect and remit taxes under my tax number - so the taxes paid are input tax credits and money in my business.

At this point I would suggest that NO one use the GSP - Canada Post for all that we complain about it only charges $9.95 CDN for brokerage and handling - and then GST or HST on top IF required.

Quite often there are no additional charges and usually it is delivered right to your door if you have the parcel delivery service in your area.

IMO- Not saying that GSP is not a legal service, but without legal receipts for money collected how do we know for sure that they are paying the taxes into the Canadian tax system. -IMO

I am interested in finding out what other business people buying and selling on ebay have come across in reference to the GSP and Pitney Bowes.

[walker0017]

l___________________________________________________________________________________________________________

bp-elec1 wrote:

They will not issue a receipt detailing the taxes as required under Canadian tax law.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

You are correct, According to the CRA as follows: I cannot get the link to work properly but type it in and it will get you there

Imported Goods  

www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/bsnss/tpcs/gst-tps/gnrl/txbl/mprtsxprts/mprtdgds-eng.html

The owner or importer of record is responsible for paying the GST/HST on imported goods. If you are registered for the GST/HST and you are the importer (the person who caused the goods to be imported into Canada), you may claim an input tax credit (ITC) for the tax you paid on the imported goods, as long as you meet the requirement for claiming ITCs.

As well:

Invoice requirements 

www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/bsnss/tpcs/gst-tps/bspsbch/itc-cti/nvc-eng.html

Informing your customers

You have to let your customers know if the GST/HST applies to their purchases. For information on the tax status of various supplies of property and services, see Taxable or exempt? For taxable supplies (other than zero-rated supplies), you have to show:

• that the total amount paid or payable for a supply includes the GST/HST;
• the amount paid or payable for the supply and show the amount of the GST/HST payable on the supply separately; or

the GST/HST rate that applies to the supply. If HST applies to the supply, show the total HST rate. Do not show the federal and provincial parts of the HST separately.

Fin

Mandatory registration 

www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/bsnss/tpcs/gst-tps/rgstrng/rgstr/rgstrng/mndtry_nr-eng.html

You have to register for GST/HST when you no longer qualify as a small supplier because your total worldwide taxable supplies of goods and services exceed the small supplier limit of $30,000 in Mandatory registration for non-resident businesses

You may be carrying on business in Canada even if you do not have a permanent establishment in Canada.

You have to register for GST/HST in the following cases:

• you provide taxable, including zero-rated, goods or services in Canada in the course of carrying on business in Canada and you are not a small supplier;

So you be the judge because the way I read it eBay/PBI as the importer of record according to their T&C that collects GST/HST/PST/QSP on our behalf have to register, and have to supply a detailed invoice. PBI and others may want to argue this saying no they don't but if you look at the links and wade through it all they are required to do this the same as Amazon does as shown on the scan below according to CRA regulations:

[bp-elec1]

Never did use the borderfree option.

If you bring in anything and you have paid the tax then you are allowed to have the receipt.

It does not matter if GSP or FedEx or UPS or Canada Post or Livingston Brokerage or any other broker pays it up front - in the end you are paying it and you are entitled to a tax receipt.

Part of the brokerage fee is you want to call it that is the interest on the loan that they are charging you for paying the tax upfront.

It is your money and you are paying that tax and as a business I get to deduct that tax.

If you are a private citizen you may in some circumstances be able to also deduct that portion of the tax paid - Through GSP on your behalf.

It is still your money and by Canadian tax law you are required to receive a receipt for it.

You may not use the receipt for any more than something to complain about, but you are entitled to it.

In today's business world it does not cost much if anything to have it spit out thru email to you.

If you want it - you print it - if not you re-cycle the bits and bytes.

Not having that legal receipt is costing me money as a small business.

Here is a post from Canada Revenue Agency outlining requirements that a business must inform their customers about charging GST: http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/bsnss/tpcs/gst-tps/bspsbch/itc-cti/nvc-eng.html

There are most likely additional requirements for importers/ Brokers like GSP or FedEx or UPS or Canada Post or Livingston Brokerage.

At this point until proven incorrect I will have to say that I do not think anyone should be using the GSP option - IMO is seems more than a bit shady to me

[bp-elec1]

Walker0017 - by the looks of what you have posted I think you agree with me. GSP and / or ebay must supply a detailed receipt such as the one you have scanned above. The rest of them do.
As stated I have a small business and am therefore eligible to use the tax paid as an input tax credit.

A long and involved discussion for another forum is my opinion that everyone that sells is a small business and should have a GST number even if you are under the 30k point. The Canadian tax department is giving money away hand over fist if you follow the rules.
But that is my opinion.

[walker0017]

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________

bp-elec1 wrote:

Walker0017 - by the looks of what you have posted I think you agree with me. GSP and / or ebay must supply a detailed receipt such as the one you have scanned above. The rest of them do.
As stated I have a small business and am therefore eligible to use the tax paid as an input tax credit.

A long and involved discussion for another forum is my opinion that everyone that sells is a small business and should have a GST number even if you are under the 30k point. The Canadian tax department is giving money away hand over fist if you follow the rules.
But that is my opinion.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________

You are correct and unless PBI or someone provides valid proof with a link that eBay/PBI is exempt from doing this then they should be supplying a receipt with a registration number that can be verified on the CRA web site. So you kind of have to ask yourself how exactly are they paying all this tax money to the CRA without a valid registration number and invoice?

[bp-elec1]

That is part of my problem with this situation.
Are they actually paying the taxes to the Canada on our behalf or is someone keeping the money collected?
Without a paper trail and proper legal documentation how do you know?
As before something does not feel correct to me about this.
- I think I need to be proven wrong but at this point feel that I will not be.

bp

[walker0017]

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________

bp-elec1 wrote:

That is part of my problem with this situation.
Are they actually paying the taxes to the Canada on our behalf or is someone keeping the money collected?
Without a paper trail and proper legal documentation how do you know?
As before something does not feel correct to me about this.
- I think I need to be proven wrong but at this point feel that I will not be.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

As a business person you are within your legal right to direct a query to the CRA and they will give you a definite answer. As well you can be as specific as needed.

Don't know if that helps you out though.

[bp-elec1]

I have contacted the CFIB as a step in this process - they work for the small business owner in Canada for various things. Most likely will be in contact with CRA soon with help from CFIB.
Thanks:
bp

[marnotom!]

---

@walker0017 wrote:

According to the CRA as follows: I cannot get the link to work properly but type it in and it will get you there

Imported Goods  

www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/bsnss/tpcs/gst-tps/gnrl/txbl/mprtsxprts/mprtdgds-eng.html

The owner or importer of record is responsible for paying the GST/HST on imported goods. If you are registered for the GST/HST and you are the importer (the person who caused the goods to be imported into Canada), you may claim an input tax credit (ITC) for the tax you paid on the imported goods, as long as you meet the requirement for claiming ITCs.

---

And since Pitney Bowes is "importer of record" they're the ones who are technically paying the GST/HST on a GSP purchase, not the eBay buyer.

---

@walker0017 wrote:

So you be the judge because the way I read it eBay/PBI as the importer of record according to their T&C that collects GST/HST/PST/QSP on our behalf have to register, and have to supply a detailed invoice. PBI and others may want to argue this saying no they don't but if you look at the links and wade through it all they are required to do this the same as Amazon does as shown on the scan below according to CRA regulations:

---

Importers don't collect tax (and duty).  Importers pay or remit tax (and duty) to the appropriate body.

What Pitney Bowes collects from the buyer is a repayment for the taxes that Pitney Bowes paid as "importer of record".

This is why the term the GSP uses is "import charges" which is a vague, catch-all term that makes no mention of tax and/or duty.  Technically speaking, the buyer isn't paying anybody tax and duty in a GSP transaction.  They're just reimbursing (and then some) the importer of record.

Your Amazon purchase appears to be one where the item was fulfilled or shipped from Canada.  It's an apples and oranges comparison to what the GSP does.  An apples and apples comparison would be an item shipped through Amazon Export (Sorry, I got the name of the service wrong in earlier posts).

[marnotom!]

---

@bp-elec1 wrote:

Never did use the borderfree option.

If you bring in anything and you have paid the tax then you are allowed to have the receipt.

It does not matter if GSP or FedEx or UPS or Canada Post or Livingston Brokerage or any other broker pays it up front - in the end you are paying it and you are entitled to a tax receipt.

---

Just being the messenger here, so don't shoot me, but my understanding is that as far as Pitney Bowes is concerned, you didn't "pay the tax".  You just paid an amount that goes toward taxes and other bits and bobs related to processing the item.

If you follow the link to Amazon Export in my previous post, you'll see that its terms and conditions make no mention of the buyer having access to actual receipts for the taxes and duty paid on a shipment, although it may well be that those are part of the "receipts for customs clearance" referred to in those terms.

It would be interesting to find out how Borderfree handles this.  This is from its terms and conditions page:

Note to Canadian Consumers: By ordering goods from Borderfree, you hereby authorize a licensed Canadian customs broker, chosen by Borderfree, to act as your agent, and to transact business with the CBSA (Canada Border Services Agency) to clear your merchandise, account for duties and taxes, to return merchandise to Borderfree, and prepare and submit refund claims on your behalf for any merchandise that you return. You understand that the CBSA will send any refund of duties and taxes that were paid on the returned merchandise to the broker, and that you will obtain the refund directly from Borderfree. In this connection, you also authorize the customs broker to endorse any refund cheque issued by the CBSA in your name, so that Borderfree can be reimbursed.

In those terms and conditions, I can't find any reference to receipts in the buyer's name for taxes paid by the agent.

[walker0017]

________________________________________________________________________________________________________

marnotom! wrote:

Importers don't collect tax (and duty).  Importers pay or remit tax (and duty) to the appropriate body.

What Pitney Bowes collects from the buyer is a repayment for the taxes that Pitney Bowes paid as "importer of record".

This is why the term the GSP uses is "import charges" which is a vague, catch-all term that makes no mention of tax and/or duty.  Technically speaking, the buyer isn't paying anybody tax and duty in a GSP transaction.  They're just reimbursing (and then some) the importer of record.

Your Amazon purchase appears to be one where the item was fulfilled or shipped from Canada.  It's an apples and oranges comparison to what the GSP does.  An apples and apples comparison would be an item shipped through Amazon Export (Sorry, I got the name of the service wrong in earlier posts).

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Where is your proof, the CRA links I provided say otherwise so unless you can show official government of Canada documentation from them all you have is your supposition and no facts and PBI's word for it. So unless there is an official document saying otherwise they are legally required under the CRA regulations to supply an invoice showing a breakdown of taxes no matter what their T&C says that was written in the US but I suspect wouldn't hold up too well if challenged in Canada.

As for the Amazon receipt, if you had have taken the time to look at looked at the bottom you would have seen the American Address in Washington State for Amazon.ca and all the registration numbers they have which is by the way also used for their .com site and is exactly what eBay/PBI are suppose to have on their invoices as the importer of record and although the book was purchased on the .Ca site it originated in the US for shipping.   

[pjcdn2005]

I've purchased from other U.S. sites that precharge tax and they do separate the shipping cost, tax and duty. I would imagine they are doing the exact same thing as PB in that they collect the money and then submit it to the government. Some of those sites do say that they will repay you if the fees due are less what was paid but that is more the exception than the norm. But in all cases, If I wanted to return an item, I would have the ability to claim back the tax and duty paid and imo, that is the way that it should be.

Regardless of whether or not PB is required by law to provide a breakdown of the amount they are charging for brokerage, duty and tax, they should be transparent and provide that info. Their charges for similar items are not always consistent so they need to be more accountable. If they do not have enough information from the listings then ebay should make it impossible for a gsp seller to list without that information. It may not make people like the gsp any more than they do now but at least they would know the specifics of what they are being charged.

[marnotom!]

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@walker0017 wrote:

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@marnotom! wrote:

Importers don't collect tax (and duty).  Importers pay or remit tax (and duty) to the appropriate body.

What Pitney Bowes collects from the buyer is a repayment for the taxes that Pitney Bowes paid as "importer of record".

This is why the term the GSP uses is "import charges" which is a vague, catch-all term that makes no mention of tax and/or duty.  Technically speaking, the buyer isn't paying anybody tax and duty in a GSP transaction.  They're just reimbursing (and then some) the importer of record.

Your Amazon purchase appears to be one where the item was fulfilled or shipped from Canada.  It's an apples and oranges comparison to what the GSP does.  An apples and apples comparison would be an item shipped through Amazon Export (Sorry, I got the name of the service wrong in earlier posts).

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Where is your proof, the CRA links I provided say otherwise so unless you can show official government of Canada documentation from them all you have is your supposition and no facts and PBI's word for it. So unless there is an official document saying otherwise they are legally required under the CRA regulations to supply an invoice showing a breakdown of taxes no matter what their T&C says that was written in the US but I suspect wouldn't hold up too well if challenged in Canada.

As for the Amazon receipt, if you had have taken the time to look at looked at the bottom you would have seen the American Address in Washington State for Amazon.ca and all the registration numbers they have which is by the way also used for their .com site and is exactly what eBay/PBI are suppose to have on their invoices as the importer of record and although the book was purchased on the .Ca site it originated in the US for shipping.   

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I'm not sure of what you're asking for proof.  Your quote from CRA says:

The owner or importer of record is responsible for paying the GST/HST on imported goods.

PBI appoints itself importer of record, according to its terms and conditions for buyers.  Technically speaking, they "caused" the item to be imported, not the eBay buyer.

Odd as it may sound, PBI's role in a GSP shipment is not of tax/duty collector, but of tax/duty remitter.

Where is your evidence that your book originated in the United States for shipping, by the way?  Recently, I haven't had any luck in my experiences with purchasing from Amazon items originating from the United States.  I suspect your item was warehoused in Canada.

Besides, this is still an apples and oranges comparison even if it is shipped from the United States as you're dealing directly with a U.S. merchant who is registered to collect and remit sales taxes from its Canadian customers.  When one deals with the GSP, one is not dealing directly with the merchant who sold them the goods.

[marnotom!]

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

I've purchased from other U.S. sites that precharge tax and they do separate the shipping cost, tax and duty. I would imagine they are doing the exact same thing as PB in that they collect the money and then submit it to the government. Some of those sites do say that they will repay you if the fees due are less what was paid but that is more the exception than the norm. But in all cases, If I wanted to return an item, I would have the ability to claim back the tax and duty paid and imo, that is the way that it should be.

Regardless of whether or not PB is required by law to provide a breakdown of the amount they are charging for brokerage, duty and tax, they should be transparent and provide that info. Their charges for similar items are not always consistent so they need to be more accountable. If they do not have enough information from the listings then ebay should make it impossible for a gsp seller to list without that information. It may not make people like the gsp any more than they do now but at least they would know the specifics of what they are being charged.

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I also suspect that with those other sites, the various customs processing fees are buried in the item price, and this is something that won't work with the GSP.

No quibbles with your point that it would be a really good idea for PBI to provide purchasers with a breakdown of the import charges.  While some of the hostility directed toward the GSP is due to people not understanding that personal imports are subject to tax and duty, some of those who do understand it don't understand that there are costs involved in processing their items and the fees due on them.

[walker0017]

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marnotom! wrote:

I'm not sure of what you're asking for proof.  Your quote from CRA says:

The owner or importer of record is responsible for paying the GST/HST on imported goods.

PBI appoints itself importer of record, according to its terms and conditions for buyers.  Technically speaking, they "caused" the item to be imported, not the eBay buyer.

Odd as it may sound, PBI's role in a GSP shipment is not of tax/duty collector, but of tax/duty remitter.

Where is your evidence that your book originated in the United States for shipping, by the way?  Recently, I haven't had any luck in my experiences with purchasing from Amazon items originating from the United States.  I suspect your item was warehoused in Canada.

Besides, this is still an apples and oranges comparison even if it is shipped from the United States as you're dealing directly with a U.S. merchant who is registered to collect and remit sales taxes from its Canadian customers.  When one deals with the GSP, one is not dealing directly with the merchant who sold them the goods.

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Out of that entire CRA web page that is the only small part pulled out of context that you use to say your new best friends in PBI not only don't charge us tax from those of us who actually buy things on eBay but they don't have to supply a detailed receipt,  and all from that one sentence, wow. So I guess that also works when you go to the corner store and buy something and the store decides not to give you a receipt. So much from that one sentence but again it is still only your supposition and that of PBI buddies.

And as for your last paragraph, if you had made frequent purchases on Amazon you would know that when the order is fulfilled by Amazon or you choose to buy from their list of seller on amazon and they are from the US you still get the same type of invoice although you might not get charged any tax what so ever from them and it is a flat shipping rate on the .ca site, but as a frequent amazon buyer of course you know that already.