Comments about the Global Shipping Program

[kalvin@ebay.com]

Feel free to share your thoughts about the Global Shipping Program here. 

A few questions to get the ball rolling:

• What has worked well for you with the Global Shipping Program?
• Any ideas to help improve the experience for Canadian buyers?
• What has deterred you from buying items offered using the Global Shipping Program?
• How have you managed to search for items outside the program?

Please try & keep the comments constructive 🙂

If you have any questions about the program, please post them here.

[afantiques]

I find it depressing that so many objections seem to be in  the form of irrational abuse.

There are plenty of real concerns, the objections of the rational are swallowed in the purple prose.

[mwc1942]

"GSP items appear to be charged only GST when purchased by someone in BC". 

If you HAD purchased this item and the import charge was not fully paid by the eBay/PB, there could be a surprise waiting for you at customs.  The terms & conditions [#3[i] Exclusions] of the GSP say that you are ultimately responsible short fall of payment[s] including provincial tax, if applicable.

[mwc1942]

  "Compare your example to those from item below.  Note buy it now price, deduct gst, compare what PB make on each."

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/181390136128

Was asking you to compare the difference between the two listed GSP items, results shown below;

                                                Your quoted site [made in USA]                      Mine [not mentioned] **

Buy it now price                          1049.00                                                             150.00

import  charge                                 62.60                                                                21.61

GST                                                   52.45                                                                  7.50

Wild on the town money                10.15                                                               14.11

PB makes approx. 40% more off an item thats worth about 85% less all because seller did not mention country of origin.

** item was in fact made in the USA by American call maker Glynn Scobey, therefore both items would have qualify under NAFTA.

[mwc1942]

• "Go back to the earlier posts from AFAntiques and PJcdn2005 on the reason why the item has to be specified as being manufactured in a NAFTA country in order to get some slack cut in the duty department"

  Review my previous post, top of page 145 then continue below

  NAFTA Rules of Origin for Casual Goods Regulations CASUAL GOODS 3. Casual goods that are acquired in the United States

  • (a) are deemed to originate in the United States and are entitled to the benefit of the United States Tariff if

    (i) the marking of the goods is in accordance with the marking laws of the United States and indicates that the goods are the product of the United States or Canada, or

    (ii) the goods do not bear a mark and there is no evidence to indicate that the goods are not the product of the United States or Canada; and

  • (b) are deemed to originate in Mexico and are entitled to the benefit of the Mexico Tariff if the marking of the goods is in accordance with the marking laws of the United States and indicates that the goods are the product of Mexico.

[mwc1942]

"GSP goods are not , technically, imported for personal use. The importer is PB Inc, and the use is not personal but 'in the normal course of business'. Only after import clearance are they sorted for delivery to individuals."

If I understand you correctly, you claim that PB Inc is an importer of commercial goods is that correct?

[dgour98]

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@marnotom! wrote:

---

I just find it odd that you have all these concerns after you agreed to those T&C.

---

Nope. Read my previous posts. I bought an item, new the costs, had no problem with the seller, happy with the purchase.

Problem is, PB stuck their nose in something that was not their concern. Paid an extra $22.09 for that privilege.

I now see what they do, what they are about, and voiced my concerns in my posting of a few hours ago.

That extra $22.09 (for 1 comic book mind you) had nothing to do with PB or duties or whatever. All these explanations or

defenses of PB is like pissing against the wind, all static noise.

I will go farther... these "sellers" are now selling offline of ebay because otherwise they can't sell (or can't sell at a high price because ebay/PB is adding over 40%  of a sale and filling their pockets.) 

Also, part-time ebayers are wondering what all this is about. You know you're neighbor who makes 4-5 purchases a year?

The guy who collects coins? Today he has to pay 40% more because of this "new ebay tax"? Yep, that's what they call it.

Rest assured, my "neighbor" and "co-workers" have not bought since they saw this new "ebay tax". These people are gone.

Bottom line people. It doesn't matter who gets the money, as long as it's affordable. Paying $22.09 to PB for 1 comic book is not affordable. So cut the BS with the PB defenses, they have no business in my transactions with buyers or sellers.

In fact, one "co-worker" replied to me when i tried to explain the GSP... "Pitney Bowes.. don't they do printers?"   Yep, stay out of my business.

[marnotom!]

---

@dgour98 wrote:

Nope. Read my previous posts. I bought an item, new the costs, had no problem with the seller, happy with the purchase.

Problem is, PB stuck their nose in something that was not their concern. Paid an extra $22.09 for that privilege.

I now see what they do, what they are about, and voiced my concerns in my posting of a few hours ago.

That extra $22.09 (for 1 comic book mind you) had nothing to do with PB or duties or whatever. All these explanations or

defenses of PB is like pissing against the wind, all static noise.

I will go farther... these "sellers" are now selling offline of ebay because otherwise they can't sell (or can't sell at a high price because ebay/PB is adding over 40%  of a sale and filling their pockets.) 

---

I've provided Pitney Bowes rationale for opening and inspecting merchandise.  Perhaps you'd care to explain why you this is none of Pitney Bowes' business by providing evidence that contrasts with mine.

As stated in the terms and conditions (which you don't mention as having read):

Based on information provided by your Seller and obtained during the processing of your order, Pitney Bowes will manage the exportation and, through third party customs brokers, the importation clearance of GSP Items that you have purchased including, as applicable, remitting your payment of import charges to applicable customs and tax authorities, preparing required documentation, making necessary filings, and providing customs authorities with information needed to clear the shipment through customs.

The big reason that PBI has to open packages is because seller's aren't adhering to THEIR terms and conditions, which state that an item's country of manufacture has to be stated in the "Item Specifics" of the listing if it's known.  I suspect we'd have far fewer instances of this happening if sellers read and understood what they were getting into, assuming that they're aware that they're in this program in the first place.

Also keep in mind that once the item reaches the Global Shipping Center, it's no longer considered the seller's property, but it's not yet the buyer's property; it's Pitney Bowes' responsibility according to the T&C.

[marnotom!]

---

@mwc1942 wrote:

"GSP items appear to be charged only GST when purchased by someone in BC". 

If you HAD purchased this item and the import charge was not fully paid by the eBay/PB, there could be a surprise waiting for you at customs.  The terms & conditions [#3[i] Exclusions] of the GSP say that you are ultimately responsible short fall of payment[s] including provincial tax, if applicable.

---

The GSP item I purchased had no surprises waiting for me.

I did some research after receiving my item and it would appear that BC isn't all that bothered about collecting provincial sales tax for internet sales where BC isn't specifically targeted in the selling site's marketing.

[marnotom!]

---

@mwc1942 wrote:

PB makes approx. 40% more off an item thats worth about 85% less all because seller did not mention country of origin.

** item was in fact made in the USA by American call maker Glynn Scobey, therefore both items would have qualify under NAFTA.

---

A computer subroutine isn't going to know Glyn Scobey from a hole in the wall.

[marnotom!]

---

@mwc1942 wrote:

Review my previous post, top of page 145 then continue below 

• NAFTA Rules of Origin for Casual Goods Regulations CASUAL GOODS 3. Casual goods that are acquired in the United States

  • (a) are deemed to originate in the United States and are entitled to the benefit of the United States Tariff if

    (i) the marking of the goods is in accordance with the marking laws of the United States and indicates that the goods are the product of the United States or Canada, or

    (ii) the goods do not bear a mark and there is no evidence to indicate that the goods are not the product of the United States or Canada; and

  • (b) are deemed to originate in Mexico and are entitled to the benefit of the Mexico Tariff if the marking of the goods is in accordance with the marking laws of the United States and indicates that the goods are the product of Mexico.

---

As AF says, a GSP import isn't legally considered "casual goods".  It's processed as a commercial import.  Nothing that says that it can't be.

It's a bit like putting A1 Sauce on my fries.  The condiment isn't considered a spud-topper by Heinz Canada, but there's nothing to stop one from using it as such.

Keep in mind, however, that the Canada Revenue Agency website says nothing about casual imports being duty-exempt in reference to the postal import program:

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/import/postal-postale/duty-droits-eng.html

[dgour98]

---

@marnotom! wrote:

---

---

I've provided Pitney Bowes rationale for opening and inspecting merchandise.  Perhaps you'd care to explain why you this is none of Pitney Bowes' business by providing evidence that contrasts with mine.

As stated in the terms and conditions (which you don't mention as having read):

Based on information provided by your Seller and obtained during the processing of your order, Pitney Bowes will manage the exportation and, through third party customs brokers, the importation clearance of GSP Items that you have purchased including, as applicable, remitting your payment of import charges to applicable customs and tax authorities, preparing required documentation, making necessary filings, and providing customs authorities with information needed to clear the shipment through customs.

The big reason that PBI has to open packages is because seller's aren't adhering to THEIR terms and conditions, which state that an item's country of manufacture has to be stated in the "Item Specifics" of the listing if it's known.  I suspect we'd have far fewer instances of this happening if sellers read and understood what they were getting into, assuming that they're aware that they're in this program in the first place.

Also keep in mind that once the item reaches the Global Shipping Center, it's no longer considered the seller's property, but it's not yet the buyer's property; it's Pitney Bowes' responsibility according to the T&C.

---

Like i said... a lot of blah blah blah blah. Stay out of my business.

cheers, out.

[afantiques]

If I understand you correctly, you claim that PB Inc is an importer of commercial goods is that correct?

No. PB is the 'importer of record' (the person or entity responsible for the import as far as law and taxes are concerned). They import a  consignment of packages. These do not constitute a 'casual import'. There is no casual import exemption.

But on another point you raised, there is no chance of the buyer being asked for more money later. Once cleared inwards the goods are as Canadian as the Heights of Abraham.

[afantiques]

Like i said... a lot of blah blah blah blah. Stay out of my business.

Incomprehension and denial of facts does not in any way make you right. Just stubborn.

[mwc1942]

"The GSP item I purchased had no surprises waiting for me.

I did some research after receiving my item and it would appear that BC isn't all that bothered about collecting provincial sales tax for internet sales where BC isn't specifically targeted in the selling site's marketing."

Great.  

Lucky for you and rest of the residence of BC.

[dgour98]

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@afantiques wrote:

Like i said... a lot of blah blah blah blah. Stay out of my business.

Incomprehension and denial of facts does not in any way make you right. Just stubborn.

---

Not stubborn. Put it any way you want, when you need to pay $22.09 EXTRA for 1 comic book.. there is something wrong with the system.  And so far all i see is blah blah to defend it. Use common sense, please.

[afantiques]

when you need to pay $22.09 EXTRA for 1 comic book.. there is something wrong with the system.

You paid limousine prices for what could have been a bus ride. But the item was sent by limousine, as paid for.

The time to exercise common sense is before paying for the item and agreeing to the conditions.

No one at  all is interested in defending the GSP and especially the inappropriate use of it, not even the ebay rep who posts about it, but the objections should be rational and factual. The things most  wrong with the system are the way it is promoted by ebay and the way users don't read the details before using it.

[mwc1942]

"Keep in mind, however, that the Canada Revenue Agency website says nothing about casual imports being duty-exempt in reference to the postal import program:'

Guess again

Read below concerning, Importing Non-Commercial Goods by Mail, it applies to items 20$ or less.

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/pub/bsf5092-eng.pdf

"As AF says, a GSP import isn't legally considered "casual goods". 

Then eBay could very well have a fair amount of unhappy bidders. There are only two types of goods, either "casual good" or "commercial goods", goods must be one or the other not both.  If the item is shipped into Canada as commercial goods then they would be automatically be disqualified from the "Importing Non-Commercial Goods by Mail.   GSP imports are legally considered casual goods or they are not, it can't go both ways.  So all that talk about not paying duty on items 20$ or less goes right out the window, would it not. 

[mwc1942]

"As for your 6% rule, here is an item that's not made in a NAFTA country nor is the country of manufacture specified.  What are your thoughts on what's leftover after GST, etc. is taken off the import charges?"

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/221422816724

Did not say it was a rule.

It just shows the inconsistency in the import charges, applied to all items NAFTA or otherwise, does it not?

[dgour98]

---

@afantiques wrote:

when you need to pay $22.09 EXTRA for 1 comic book.. there is something wrong with the system.

You paid limousine prices for what could have been a bus ride. But the item was sent by limousine, as paid for.

The time to exercise common sense is before paying for the item and agreeing to the conditions.

No one at  all is interested in defending the GSP and especially the inappropriate use of it, not even the ebay rep who posts about it, but the objections should be rational and factual. The things most  wrong with the system are the way it is promoted by ebay and the way users don't read the details before using it.

---

To afantiques, i agree with what you say above and do not want to start a flame war or what not with my fellow ebayers.

My GSP purchase was explained several posts ago and am happy with the purchase and the seller. But now that i have gone thru it i see it for what it is. Yes i knew the amount before buying and was willing to pay the amount... for this time only.

My latest comments although a bit sarcastic are from all the explaining of what it actually is. After a while reading the explanations the eyes just glaze over and it sounds like white noise. Yes we get limo prices but we only need to take a taxi, the problem is we get no choice in the matter. (well, we do, we just stop buying).  They can cut it however they want but it is an unnecessary cost that should not exist.

It takes away from the enjoyment we've always had on buying and selling on ebay and for that it's too bad, people are going elsewhere. (or using ebay as the ad, but selling offline).

I know a friend who has a friend and they both buy occasionally on ebay but where surprised on these extra charges..they both did not purchase because of it. I told my buddy to just look for non GSP sellers but they just see "an ebay extra charge" on what they want to buy and went elsewhere. Basically the average dude just sees the bottom line and don't we all.

If you afantiques do not use the GSP i will more than gladly shop from you. My money should go to you and the cost to ship to me.. nobody else should stick their nose in it and want another 40% more, all that does is take away money that would have been yours. Ebay already takes their cut as the middle man which is fair. (plus ebay's puppet paypal takes another cut, ebay needs to stop entering 'partners')

So yes, when we pay $22.09 extra to PB for 1 comic book, the system is definitely broken, and i would like them to remove that system so we can continue to buy and sell before it is too late.

[marnotom!]

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@mwc1942 wrote:

"Keep in mind, however, that the Canada Revenue Agency website says nothing about casual imports being duty-exempt in reference to the postal import program:'

Guess again

Read below concerning, Importing Non-Commercial Goods by Mail, it applies to items 20$ or less.

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/pub/bsf5092-eng.pdf

---

I thought that was a given, but seeing as it isn't I'll also point out to you that that publication you linked to also states that not all sub-C$20 items qualify for that exemption.

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@mwc1942 wrote:

"As AF says, a GSP import isn't legally considered "casual goods". 

Then eBay could very well have a fair amount of unhappy bidders. There are only two types of goods, either "casual good" or "commercial goods", goods must be one or the other not both.  If the item is shipped into Canada as commercial goods then they would be automatically be disqualified from the "Importing Non-Commercial Goods by Mail.   GSP imports are legally considered casual goods or they are not, it can't go both ways.  So all that talk about not paying duty on items 20$ or less goes right out the window, would it not. 

---

Seeing that an item valued at less than C$20 and shipped via the GSP would have the "import charges" folded into the shipping charge, and noting that we currently don't get a breakdown of what Pitney Bowes charges buyers, how do we know that we're not being charged duty?  After all, some of the biggest complaints from Canadian buyers appear to be about the shipping charges for items valued at less than $20.