Comments about the Global Shipping Program

[kalvin@ebay.com]

Feel free to share your thoughts about the Global Shipping Program here. 

A few questions to get the ball rolling:

• What has worked well for you with the Global Shipping Program?
• Any ideas to help improve the experience for Canadian buyers?
• What has deterred you from buying items offered using the Global Shipping Program?
• How have you managed to search for items outside the program?

Please try & keep the comments constructive 🙂

If you have any questions about the program, please post them here.

[00nevermind00]

I'm not in the habit of replying to posts when I said I wasn't going to. But in this case, I have to.

Hey, that's not a bad idea.  Why don't we extend that to sellers who don't use the GSP as well.  I'd like to know how much of the seller's shipping and handling charge is going to the transport cost of the item, the mailing box, bubble wrap, coffee and gas.  And why stop there?  Why doesn't Loblaws have on the shelf tag for a two litre bottle of cola how much of the item price is actually for its ingredients, how much is going to the plastic bottle, how much is going to transporting it, how much is going to pay the various personnel involved in handling it, and so forth?

That is completely ridiculous and I'm sure you know it. When an item sent through the mail is assessed for taxes, Canada Post lets you know how much their service charge is. Is it too much to ask PB to do the same thing? There are obviously buyers who feel they are being fleeced. Wouldn't a bit of transparency help?

I didn't read the rest of the post.

[pjcdn2005]

The problem is that a lot of people aren't saying "black".

nevermind is being very black and white yet you seem determined to argue any valid  point that they bring up.  You obviously like to be contrary.

And I still maintain that there's nothing on the eBay site that states unequivocally that buyers will get online viewable tracking on a GSP shipment.

And I still maintain that it is totally unreasonable to suggest that "International Tracking Provided" might mean that the buyer has to go through the help pages,  find a phone number for customer service, explain the situation and then wait until they can talk to someone who MIGHT have that information. You mentioned one case in which you believed a buyer got the information on the phone and yet other posts have stated that they phone ebay and cs couldn't help them.   

I do think that it is reasonable for a buyer to think that "International Tracking Provided"  does mean online tracking since that is the way tracking generally works these days and since some buyers do actually receive it.  It does not have to be unequivocally stated. 

[reallynicestamps]

Although I generally burble on about how tracking is only emotionally useful to the buyer, and has practical use for the seller, I have to agree that if eBay/GSP/PB is going to say that International Tracking is available, it should be straightforward.

At the moment 'domestic 'tracking, from the seller to Kentucky is clear and easy to find.

From Kentucky?

PB must have records of what truck each parcel is on and what service it was given to. There is no good reason to hide this.

[marnotom!]

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@00nevermind00 wrote:

Hey, that's not a bad idea.  Why don't we extend that to sellers who don't use the GSP as well.  I'd like to know how much of the seller's shipping and handling charge is going to the transport cost of the item, the mailing box, bubble wrap, coffee and gas.  And why stop there?  Why doesn't Loblaws have on the shelf tag for a two litre bottle of cola how much of the item price is actually for its ingredients, how much is going to the plastic bottle, how much is going to transporting it, how much is going to pay the various personnel involved in handling it, and so forth?

That is completely ridiculous and I'm sure you know it. When an item sent through the mail is assessed for taxes, Canada Post lets you know how much their service charge is. Is it too much to ask PB to do the same thing? There are obviously buyers who feel they are being fleeced. Wouldn't a bit of transparency help?

---

As Pierre suggested elsewhere, what Canada Post's charges are for and what Pitney Bowes charges are for are quite different.  For one thing, Pitney Bowes isn't charging for taxes but for an amount equivalent to taxes as they're the ones paying 'em, unlike in the case with a postal import.

In any event, a rough sense of the Pitney Bowes charges can be divined by doing a bit of math.  If they seem really out of line, that's likely a sign that the seller didn't do their homework and the listing may be best avoided.

If buyers feel they're being "fleeced," it's likely because they haven't read the GSP T&C page and/or they haven't been charged taxes (or duties) on a postal import in the past and don't realize that those charges are due.   A detailed list of charges isn't likely going to make them feel better about their purchase.

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@00nevermind00 wrote:

I didn't read the rest of the post.

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That's unfortunate.  You might be surprised that I actually agree with you in principle on a couple of points.

[marnotom!]

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

The problem is that a lot of people aren't saying "black".

nevermind is being very black and white yet you seem determined to argue any valid  point that they bring up.  You obviously like to be contrary.

---

I actually agree with nvm on a few points, such as the fact that the GSP T&C page is one long document.  However, I think that arguments such as it being difficult for ESL users are a red herring as those users would also have to negotiate the eBay Canada and Canadian PayPal user agreements and policies, the latter being an insane patchwork quilt of butt-coverings.

---

@pjcdn2005 wrote:

And I still maintain that there's nothing on the eBay site that states unequivocally that buyers will get online viewable tracking on a GSP shipment.

And I still maintain that it is totally unreasonable to suggest that "International Tracking Provided" might mean that the buyer has to go through the help pages,  find a phone number for customer service, explain the situation and then wait until they can talk to someone who MIGHT have that information.

I've never stated that it's not unreasonable.  You seem to be reading stuff into my post that's not there.  All I'm saying is that there's nothing I've seen that clearly states that the GSP offers online viewable tracking and provided butt-covering examples.  No endorsement implied or intended.

[chrisgroult]

The reason why this ridiculous program is STILL here, is because big brother Gov Canada has more pull that even mighty ebay. It is basically forcing this on ebay (don't bother asking as neither ebay nor Gov Can will likely admit it... but little birdies told me), in order to collect taxes and duties from it's already overtaxed citizens. This, where more often than not, packages would simply mozy on by the Canadian border regime, without incurring additional charges.

It is simply a government cash grab and no, it is not for "our safety", "our shopping experience", "our convenience" or any other garbage they try to spew in the terms of use,

Anyone I know in Canada who uses ebay, will simply not buy from sellers who use this. In fact I believe it is harder and harder for sellers to opt out as they don't care for it either. In the end, the seller looses but I guess they aren't loosing enough as it's still in place. Maybe the low CAD dollar will cause a revisit of this ridiculous money grab. 

Free trade .  

[00nevermind00]

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

And I still maintain that there's nothing on the eBay site that states unequivocally that buyers will get online viewable tracking on a GSP shipment.

And I still maintain that it is totally unreasonable to suggest that "International Tracking Provided" might mean that the buyer has to go through the help pages,  find a phone number for customer service, explain the situation and then wait until they can talk to someone who MIGHT have that information. You mentioned one case in which you believed a buyer got the information on the phone and yet other posts have stated that they phone ebay and cs couldn't help them.   

I do think that it is reasonable for a buyer to think that "International Tracking Provided"  does mean online tracking since that is the way tracking generally works these days and since some buyers do actually receive it.  It does not have to be unequivocally stated. 

---

Yes, yes, absolutely yes!

You go to a B&M store to buy an external drive for your computer. You find one you like, with this written on the box: "USB cable included". You buy it, take it home, open the box and find no USB cable inside the box. You phone the store and they tell you: "Yes it's included, but that doesn't mean it's inside the box. It means you have to pick it up at the store."

It's pretty much the same kind of thing as what Marnotom is saying about GSP tracking.

[marnotom!]

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@00nevermind00 wrote:

It's pretty much the same kind of thing as what Marnotom is saying about GSP tracking.

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Not really.

[pjcdn2005]

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@marnotom! wrote:

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

The problem is that a lot of people aren't saying "black".

nevermind is being very black and white yet you seem determined to argue any valid  point that they bring up.  You obviously like to be contrary.

---

I actually agree with nvm on a few points, such as the fact that the GSP T&C page is one long document.  However, I think that arguments such as it being difficult for ESL users are a red herring as those users would also have to negotiate the eBay Canada and Canadian PayPal user agreements and policies, the latter being an insane patchwork quilt of butt-coverings.

---

@pjcdn2005 wrote:

And I still maintain that there's nothing on the eBay site that states unequivocally that buyers will get online viewable tracking on a GSP shipment.

And I still maintain that it is totally unreasonable to suggest that "International Tracking Provided" might mean that the buyer has to go through the help pages,  find a phone number for customer service, explain the situation and then wait until they can talk to someone who MIGHT have that information.

I've never stated that it's not unreasonable.  You seem to be reading stuff into my post that's not there.  All I'm saying is that there's nothing I've seen that clearly states that the GSP offers online viewable tracking and provided butt-covering examples.  No endorsement implied or intended.

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You misunderstood. What is unreasonable is your suggestion that the statement 'tracking included' doesn't necessarily mean that online tracking is included. There really is no other type of tracking in online retail so imo it is just being

silly and argumentative to suggest that they aren't promising online tracking just because they don't specify 'online'.

Buyers think they are getting online tracking and I am sure that when ebay put that phrase in they are implying online tracking.   Sheesh. I just don't understand why you have to nitpick things like this.

[afantiques]

I don't see why 2 people who are essentially in agreement are having what seems to be a rather pointless exchange of quibbles.

But what do I know?

[marnotom!]

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

You misunderstood. What is unreasonable is your suggestion that the statement 'tracking included' doesn't necessarily mean that online tracking is included. There really is no other type of tracking in online retail so imo it is just being

silly and argumentative to suggest that they aren't promising online tracking just because they don't specify 'online'.

Buyers think they are getting online tracking and I am sure that when ebay put that phrase in they are implying online tracking.   Sheesh. I just don't understand why you have to nitpick things like this.

---

My recollection of the statement "includes international tracking" on the listing page used to be a hyperlink to further information or something or other.  It's now simply in bold font.  But I could be wrong about that.

My hypothesis is that once it was determined that Pitney Bowes tracking system wasn't communicating with eBay's database, any links and references that PB had made that specified online-viewable tracking were carefully (sneakily) reworded or avoided.  (I also have the fuzzy recollection that the terms and conditions page for buyers used to make more references to tracking than it currently does.)  eBay's help page is the closest thing there is to that, but even that doesn't link to a "track your item" page, nor does that link take one to a page that specifically makes mention of the GSP.  This strikes me as a situation where something was set up on the site only to be pretty much dismantled later.

Pitney Bowes makes no mention of online-viewable tracking in its GSP information pages or terms and conditions.  What we should be saving our outrage for is how Pitney Bowes is trying to cover the area below its tailbone with careful wordsmithing.  (It's not "legalese" though!  )   All this stuff about buyer expectations, while definitely important, is irrelevant in this context.  Is this an unacceptable state of affairs?  Definitely.  The fact that PB's tracking information isn't being successfully communicated to eBay appears to be a problem with eBay's ancient and overloaded systems.

AF, thanks for your input.  I have a request for a smidgen more:  Do you know if items purchased through the UK GSP have this issue as well?

[marnotom!]

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@reallynicestamps wrote:

Although I generally burble on about how tracking is only emotionally useful to the buyer, and has practical use for the seller, I have to agree that if eBay/GSP/PB is going to say that International Tracking is available, it should be straightforward.

At the moment 'domestic 'tracking, from the seller to Kentucky is clear and easy to find.

---

I've now found online archival records of the GSP terms and conditions page.  The original version of the page dating from October 2012 contained the sentence You and your Seller will be able to track the international shipment of your order from the United States to the designated delivery address within My eBay.  This sentence appears to have been eliminated as of the August 2014 update and from what I can see there's nothing similar to replace it.  The sole reference to "tracking" in the document is in a list of services that are done in-house (or contracted out) so I've concluded that PB has worded the document in a way to suggest that tracking is "in-house" as well.

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@reallynicestamps wrote:

PB must have records of what truck each parcel is on and what service it was given to. There is no good reason to hide this.

---

That in-house information would be the "tracking" PB's referring to in the T&C and listing pages.  

I don't think PB is trying to "hide" the information.  I suspect it's more a case of incompatibility between its computer systems and eBay's systems that's led to an inability to keep this information in Bay's database automatically updated.

[afantiques]

AF, thanks for your input.  I have a request for a smidgen more:  Do you know if items purchased through the UK GSP have this issue as well?

The UK boards do not have all that many complaints about the GSP (UK version) and I don't recall much about tracking.

THe thing is, in general UK users do not have the tracking obsession North American people have. It just is not something UK sellers care much about, compared with US sellers. We just post stuff and it arrives.

I imagine any complaints about buyers not being able to track GSP items would appear on their national boards, if any, and apart from Australia they would mostly be in languages I do not speak. THe phenomonen of sellers babysitting packges in transit would be unknown. Mainly because it is generally impossible with anything.

[femmefan1946]

I was looking at 'Firefly' memorabilia because: Firefly, man, Firefly!

And noticed these two listings.

Firefly Serenity Little **bleep** Heroes Model Maquette Statue Quantum Mechanix

sold with GSP

and

QMx FIREFLY Little **bleep** Heroes SERENITY Spaceship Maquette Statue LTD Ed SHINY!

sold with USPS First Class Mail  shipping

Identical items, different sellers,

And even with the GSP charges, and allowing that the mailed parcel may not attract import fees.

The GSP item is less expensive!

With GSP:

Item  $140.36 CDN

US shipping $15.16

GSP fees $17.44

TOTAL  $172.90

Without GSP (or border + CPO fees)

Item $164.59

Shipping $22.69

TOTAL  $187.78

The GSP can be a money saver for the canny shopper. Putting on my asbestos Stanfields now.

But eBay really needs to add a disclaimer to the Sell Your Item forms reminding sellers that the GSP is not suitable for low value items.

afantiques -- Was the UK GSP brought it to encourage export sales then?

Well, we may not have parted on the best of terms. I realize certain words were exchanged. Also, certain... bullets.-- Captain Malcolm Reynolds

[inhotpursuit]

Same here  I will not buy anything else from sellers who use GPS, not only are the costs greater but the actual shipping time is a lot more , 15 days from Spokane OR to Victoria BC, the average is more like 17 days

I just bought 10 fishing rods shipped from china by EMS the cost was US $52 , no added taxes, duty or brokerage fees and I got it in 5 days.

2016-01-09 13:04:45Buyer confirms delivery

2016-01-07 12:32:23 Payment complete 2016-01-04 00:01:17 Supplier completes shipment 2016-01-03 18:38:28 Payment verified 2016-01-03 12:30:53 Buyer makes payment

How do you expect us to be constructive when we are getting extra charges added and poor delivery times, or is it that you do not value Canadian buyers

[inhotpursuit]

Why would the item price without GSP be more??

[pjcdn2005]

Those are two different sellers and each sellers decides what they want to charge for the item. It has nothing to do with whether or not the gsp is being used. 

[pierrelebel]

"Why would the item price without GSP be more??"

It is often the case, for higher priced items, when shipping through GSP costs less than shipping directly

Taxes and duty (if applicable) are the same; service charge by Pitney Bowes (through GSP) is a bit less than Canada Post (direct shipment)

[afantiques]

Was the UK GSP brought it to encourage export sales then?

I think they did it because all the infrastructure was already in place, since the South Normanton depot was already distributing the Europe directed US GSP items. Adding an incoming mail stream from the UK was a relatively trivial exercise.

They probably thought "Why not?".

It is true that UK sellers can be easily as parochial as US based sellers. They are certainly at least as incompetent at using the program.

[superwave33]

Hi,

   To me, the global shipping program simply restrains Canadian shoppers from doing business with American sellers by automatically applying import charges. I buy a lot less since these charges were applied.

Regards