eBay

marc3185 · ‎10-05-2017

Ebay used to be my go to place for anything electronic a few years back and I would frequently recommend it to others.

Most of the items purchased came from the US (I'm in Canada), with some as far away as Texas and California. There was no GSP back then and yet, I did not have any problems with receiving packages quickly. Matter of fact, it was often possible to contact a seller and arrange for faster shipping with me picking up the extra cost, when I needed something on a rush basis.

I went overseas for a while and for that reason, I was largely inactive on Ebay for a couple of years.

Fast forward to Sept 2017 with me back in Canada

I purchased a computer and wanted it soon enough to be able to configure it prior to again going overseas. The listing made mention of the GSP and also stated that the package would be sent via International priority post. I found the shipping fees a bit steep, but thought "Wow, International Priority Post ... I'm golden"

WRONG!

Here is the route that the computer has taken thus far.

Global tracking #:

UPAAA000000242558389

Carrier:

Multiple Carriers

Status:

ACCEPTEDIN TRANSITDELIVERED

Arrived at Global Shipping Center

Oct-03-17, 18:12 PM, Erlanger, KY 41025

In Transit-Arrived at FedEx location

Oct-02-17, 22:25 PM, INDEPENDENCE, KY 41051

In Transit-In transit

Oct-02-17, 09:59 AM, INDEPENDENCE, KY 41051

In Transit-In transit

Oct-01-17, 21:59 PM, INDEPENDENCE, KY 41051

In Transit-In transit

Oct-01-17, 09:15 AM, HARRISON, OH 45030

In Transit-In transit

Sep-30-17, 21:09 PM, WILLIAMSBURG, IA 52361

In Transit-In transit

Sep-30-17, 09:00 AM, SIDNEY, NE 69162

In Transit-In transit

Sep-29-17, 20:38 PM, WILLARD, UT 84340

In Transit-Departed FedEx location

Sep-29-17, 08:20 AM, TROUTDALE, OR 97060

In Transit-Arrived at FedEx location

Sep-29-17, 05:14 AM, TROUTDALE, OR 97060

In Transit-Left FedEx origin facility

Sep-29-17, 00:21 AM, REDMOND, WA 98052

In Transit-Arrived at FedEx location

Sep-28-17, 21:44 PM, REDMOND, WA 98052

In Transit-Picked up

Sep-28-17, 19:01 PM, REDMOND, WA 98052

Note: Tracking information may be transmitted with a delay. Please check back later to view updated information. This item was shipped using the Global Shipping Program. Learn More

I am writing this on October 5th. That means that the package has been bouncing around the US for 7 days and still hasn't left the country!

It may be International Priority Post after it ships from Ebay's center, but it's snail mail to take 7 days to get from Redmond to Kentucky. If you look at the places it's traveled, it's obviously taken the scenic route.

To say I am beyond ticked off is an understatement. This is totally unacceptable in this day and age where major retailers (Amazon, Walmart and many more) are in a war to win customers and when they sell online, they bend over backwards to provide rapid delivery.

To be honest, had I known that the shipping would take this long I would not have bought the item. There are just too many other options out there.

Now, I understand that Ebay has a problem in that they do not own or inventory what is shipped. It is the seller.

I also understand that the shipping program was probably put in place because there were a lot of problems with items that the buyers, some inexperienced, had with shipping. This was probably the preferred solution to streamline the process.

Be that as it may, Ebay has a problem which, in my opinion, if not fixed will over time have a significant impact on their business.

7 days from shipping and the parcel is still at the shipping center? Unbelievable and frankly, ridiculous and simply unjustifiable!

Bottom Line: Unless there is no viable alternative to buying on Ebay, I will only buy on eBay as a last resort and, when I do, I will avoid countries where things are shipped via the Global Shipping program.

I normally speak with my feet rather than taking the time to contact an company, but in this case, I have so enjoyed searching, bidding and buying on eBay, that I am doing so now in hopes that some changes can be made to bring the fun back into buying on eBay.

marnotom! · ‎10-05-2017

The Global Shipping Program is a glorified forwarding service. As such, items shipped through this service are sent to a central processing depot in Erlanger, KY, and forwarded to the destination country from there.

Your computer has only started to be handled by the GSP. The journey from WA to KY is actually through the seller's choice of domestic US shipping method. If you found the shipping cost expensive, it may be because the seller is charging a fair bit to ship the item from WA to KY. You may want to check the listing page again but change the shipping destination to KY ZIP code 41025 to find out that part of the charge.

While you're on the listing page, I would also check the shipping description again. For GSP items it's usually "international priority shipping via the Global Shipping Program" with no mention of the post. It's PitneyBowes' generic term for its subcontracted network of freight forwarding agents and logistic companies. "Priority" doesn't mean "fast". It just means "faster than something else that's out there".

Just out of curiosity, were "import charges" mentioned on the listing page or in checkout? If not, I'm wondering if they got applied to the shipping charge instead.

mrdutch1001 · ‎10-05-2017

Using The Global Shipping Program is a seller's choice and purchasing from a seller who uses the GSP is the buyer's choice.

Another factor in this scenario is the fact that the mail systems have also changed, in both Canada and the USA. Both countries have sortation &/or distribution centres set up that funnels all mail in and out of these centres. There is no such thing as direct route mail anymore as mail is sent to these larger centres which may or may not make any logical sense to the consumer but is supposedly to make things easier for the postal systems. Thus mail does get bounced around to and from cities that geographically don't consittute a direct route but will eventually arrive at final destination.

The Global Shipping Program has been around long enough for me to know that I wilI never purchase from a seller who uses the Global Shipping Program. I do my best to purchase from Canadian sellers but when I do find that I need to purchase from the USA, I will search extensively to find the best value for the money and from a seller who will ship directly to me & not through the Global Shipping Program.

reallynicestamps · ‎10-05-2017

From September 28 to October 3, your parcel was with FedEx.

October 1 and 2 were weekend.

FedEx not the GSP.

FedEx (like GSP and USPS and CanadaPost) uses a hub and spoke distribution system.

Today is October 5.

Your item has been in transit for five business days.

It was last recorded at Erlanger, the GSP plant, two days ago.

That doesn't mean it is still there. It's just that the tracking you can see stopped there.

The problem as I see it (besides the GSP being a Seller Protection program with no benefits for the buyer) is too much communication.

If you had only seen "accepted by USPS" on the 28th then nothing until "entered Canada " on Oct 5, would you be as concerned?

package would be sent via International priority post.

Canada Post has an expensive high speed service called Priority Post.

"International priority post" is not that service.It is a generic term and meaningless.

I found the shipping fees a bit steep,

The fees include Canadian duty and Sales Taxes as well as a small service fee (~$5) from GSP.

The seller also charged an actual shipping fee, by FedEx which in my opinion is an expensive service, but that was her choice.

Just to be clear.

The GSP is a Seller Protection program.

Once the purchase reaches Erlanger and the GSP, the seller has no further responsibility for delivery.

There are a few other minor protections in there too.

There is NO benefit for Canadian sellers.

There are benefits for overseas buyers, mostly concerning availability.

The choice of FedEx for shipping was your seller's and has nothing to do with the GSP.

Canadians probably should avoid GSP processed purchases unless the item is heavy, bulky and expensive, where the GSP is often cheaper than postal or courier service, mostly due to lower customs brokerage fees.

marc3185 · ‎10-05-2017

Hi,

Yes the import charges were mentioned and I see them as a separate item on the invoice.

I understand that the GPS has only received the item (actually on the 3rd so it has now had it for 48 hours and it's still parked in their factiity).

That does not change the fact that, if Ebay is touting the GSP and collecting the fees for it, then they also have to assume responsibility of getting the item to the buyer ... from point of origin to destination, or at least have language that cautions that it assumes not responsibility for the item until it eventually reaches them.

FYI, This is rich, I got an email from Ebay at 3:36 this afternoon proudly announcing that they had now received the item. In actual fact, they received it at 6:00 pm on Oct 3. so, it has taken them almost 48 hours to get around to sending an email confirming receipt.

Impressive.

Take care

marc3185 · ‎10-05-2017

Hi mrdutch1001,

I now understand the real meaning of the GSP. When looking at eBay's hype about the GSP, it seems to suggest that it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. I now know better.

I also try to purchase from a Canadian seller when possible, but the choice can be limited at times and then I used to turn to the US. As you mention, now that I know what the GSP is, I'll keep away from it like the plague.

marc3185 · ‎10-05-2017

Hi,

eBay vaunts it's GSP on the website and makes no reference to the fact that they are not responsible for the shipment while it travels around the world before getting to them. I my opinion, the copy explaining the program is misleading and creates a false impression.

As far as October 1 & 2 being weekends, the mail still moves on the weekend as far as I know.

You are correct that the parcel landed at the GSP 48 hours ago. It is howver definitely still there, because I received an email from eBay at 3:36 this afternoon proudly announcing that the parcel had now been received. Don't know what they've been doing with the thing, but it took two days to get out an email.

Clearly, I would not have seen Entered Canada on the 5th because it's still in their facility by their own account.

Just to have some idea of shipping options, I checked with Canada Post and, admittedly this is for a parcel going in the other direction. From my house to the shipper's city, expedited parcel service comes in at around $31/32 canadian. The cost is not the most interesting thing, because the USPS could have higher fees , but the Expedited service has an advertised delivery window of 4-5 business days.

In this case, we're there and the thing hasn't even hit Canadian customs yet.

Bottom line of all of this is that having now experienced GSP first hand, I will avoid it like the plague.

marnotom! · ‎10-06-2017

Marc, I get the sense that like many first-time buyers of items forwarded through the GSP, your expectations were created by the marketing hype from the program rather than a bit of research and a scan through the terms and conditions you agreed to when you made your purchase. There are links to these terms and conditions on the listing page, whether you are using a mobile or a computer to do your buying.

http://pages.ebay.ca/shipping/globalshipping/buyer-tnc.html

Some thoughts on some of your points:

I understand that the GPS has only received the item (actually on the 3rd so it has now had it for 48 hours and it's still parked in their factiity).

Scans only show where an item has been, not where it is at any particular time. Your item may have moved on but there hasn't been a scan to show that. Your item's next scan will likely be in Canada, where it will be processed by a logistics firm, not Canada Customs.

If Ebay (sic) is touting the GSP and collecting the fees for it, then they also have to assume responsibility of getting the item to the buyer ... from point of origin to destination, or at least have language that cautions that it assumes not responsibility for the item until it eventually reaches them.

The terms and conditions state that Pitney Bowes, Inc. operates the Global Shipping Program and collects the fees on it. There should be a payment to PBI on file with PayPal for the shipping and import charges.

The T&C also make it pretty clear that PBI is responsible for the item's delivery once it clears the Global Shipping Center in Kentucky.

I now understand the real meaning of the GSP. When looking at eBay's hype about the GSP, it seems to suggest that it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. I now know better.

I also try to purchase from a Canadian seller when possible, but the choice can be limited at times and then I used to turn to the US. As you mention, now that I know what the GSP is, I'll keep away from it like the plague.

For buyers in some countries, the GSP is an improvement over dealing with the postal system and inefficient, corrupt or red tape-mired customs bureaux. For us Canadians who are wed to our postal system and Canada Border Service's relaxed approach to assessing and collecting taxes and duties due on postal issues, it's more of a pain in the patoot.

Again, you seem to have based your decision to purchase an item forwarded through the program just on the hype. I'm more cautious and I researched the program and read eBay discussion boards pretty extensively before giving the program a try with a mobile phone. At less than US$15, the shipping cost (and customs clearance charges, for that matter) were more than reasonable, and because of a quirk in BC tax laws, I was only charged GST on the phone, whereas I'd have been charged BC PST as well if it were sent by any other shipping method.

And here's the kicker for you. The same day I purchased the phone, I also purchased a case for the phone from another US seller who shipped directly to Canada, and the case arrived a week after the phone.

I've only purchased one other item that was forwarded through the GSP and my experience was just as no-nonsense. Everything else I've purchased lately has been from Canada or from sellers who have shipped directly to Canada. Why? Simply because the GSP doesn't always make sense. Rather than avoiding it like the plague, I've tried to figure out when it makes sense to use it, and when it doesn't (which, admittedly is about 95% of the time for me). Since you seem to value items arriving at your door yesterday, it's not going to make a lot of sense to use it.

Having said that, eBay does post delivery date estimates on listing pages. I can't help but wonder why you purchased the item if you didn't like the dates stated on the listing page. Or were you too entranced by the GSP hype to read those?

onebadwolf · ‎07-08-2018

I'm new to buying here. Alll my first purchases were shipped direct from the seller. I had no clue that the GSP was lying in wait, until I ordered 3 items from 3 different sellers on the same day, all using GSP to ship to Canada. What an absoute ripoff.

I receive products faster from England and China, with free, or neglible ePacket shipping. From England, for $20 CAD, my item was insured, Customs paid, and 2days later, DHL delivered it to my door. Quite a contrast to the leisurly 3 weeks that the GSP products are estimated to take.

Of the three purchases I last made, 2 of them are at the Global Sitting Center. I received 2 emails from Ebay, saying:

We are writing to inform you that your GSP order is currently under review for potential prohibited items and may experience a delay of 3-5 business days. No further action is needed and you should receive additional email updates regarding delivery status.

The "prohibited items" are old radios. It gets really complicated if they are disallowed, even if there is no reason to do so, because the two sellers do not accept international returns.

I'm going to write a script that will exclude any items GSP items from being displayed in my searches.

I might see if Ebay will notice if I attatch a warning to other Canadians about this practice, in listings of for sale items, and urge them to avoid any sellers that use GSP, and I'm sure as hell going to spread it on Redditt.

Ebay may as well just flat out state that they couldn't care less about Canada, they consider their "Murican" sellers, who are incapable of the complex task of mailing a package to be much more important. I've managed for years to obtain what I needed from individuals in forums, and by ordering direct from websites.

The GSP negates any possible savings that might be found on Ebay, and raises the hassle factor exponentialy. And we have the privilege of overpaying for slow, overpriced shipping.

And then there are the terms and conditions. The good 'ol boys at

Pitney Bowes,may at their discression sell off and keep the proceeds of, or otherwise dispose of your items, should any additional charges be assessed. What a crock.

An excerpt from the TOC:

Power of Attorney. You grant to Pitney Bowes (and, to the extent necessary, its third party service providers) a "Power of Attorney" authorizing Pitney Bowes and/or its service providers to act as your agent(s). Pursuant to 15 CFR § 30.3 (b)(3), in a routed export transaction the authorized agent can be the "exporter" for export control purposes as defined in 15 CFR 772.1 of the US Department of Commerce Export Administration Regulations ("EAR"). In its role as agent, Pitney Bowes will be authorized to retain customs brokers and/or freight forwarders for the purpose of transacting customs business with all relevant export, customs and revenue authorities on your behalf. In addition, you authorize the customs brokers and/or freight forwarders selected by Pitney Bowes to make, endorse, sign, declare and/or swear to any customs, entry, withdrawal, declaration, certificate, bill of lading and/or any other documents required by law or regulation in connection with the exportation, importation and/or transportation of the GSP Item that is shipped or consigned to you or your designee for shipment out of the United States and into any other country. However, you will bear the liability for any violation of US export laws and regulations or import laws in the destination jurisdiction, with the exception of violations caused by incorrect information provided by your Seller.

I think perhaps it is time for some complaints to Consumer and Corporate affairs. Amazon just got fined millions for business practices far less shady than these.

The best part, is that if they deem ANYTHING to be prohibited, you have no recourse. If that isn't systemic fraud just waiting to happen, I dont know what is.

femmefan1946 · ‎07-08-2018

because the two sellers do not accept international returns.

They may not accept returns.

But they do give REFUNDS.

If your purchase is late, past the last estimated date for delivery eBay gives you, you can open an Item Not Received Dispute in the Resolution Centre at the bottom of this page.

The seller will not be out one penny*, because Pitney Bowes will refund you if you do not receive your radio. Because the GSP is a SELLER PROTECTION program.

The radio itself? Good question.

Some items cannot be shipped (fireworks for example need special packaging).
Some are illegal (there was a fuss when the GSP was introduced because guitars with rare woods were being destroyed due to CERTES regulations).
And sometimes the problem is that the seller didn't make clear where the item was manufactured. (If it was made in Germany, but purchased in the USA it may be dutiable.)

The last is a slowdown, not a stop, by the way. With a value over $20 Cdn (~$16USD) you will be charged sales taxes and may or may not be charged duty.

The import fees you already paid won't change, even if the duty++ is more than your 'import fees'.

GSP charges you based on the seller's info. Then they (not you)pay the actual duty and taxes. Sometimes they make a little, sometimes they lose a little.

But again.

This is a SELLER PROTECTION program, which has some value for overseas buyers, as @marnotom pointed out last year, but nearly none for Canadians , thanks to our scofflaw CBSA agents who have decided to ignore small and low value items rather than waste taxpayer money assessing them for minimal amounts of possible duty.

If your item is less than $100, it's worth asking a GSP-opted seller if he will use USPS First Class International Parcel, which has Confirmation of Delivery to Canada.

Although if your radios are bulky, you probably will still be paying import fees, to Canada Post on your doorstep.

*And if you are refunded and the purchase shows up later, PB/GSP does NOT want it. Leaving you with the item and an ethical dilemma.

ypdc_dennis · ‎07-08-2018

Instead of tacking on to a thread from 2017 -- start a new one by clicking on "Start a Discussion".

eBay's GSP (Global Shipping Program) has been around since 2013.

Old radios (there is at least one forum thread about the problem) shipped via GSP can run into US Export problems because export of some types of VACUUM TUBES are restricted. And the wage slaves at Pitney-Bowes are not educated enough to know which tubes are restricted.

https://hackaday.com/2018/01/20/vacuum-tubes-shipping-through-ebay-now-challenging/

You can try contacting: global.shipping.support@pb.com

with purchase info/tracking, and point out that vacuum tubes in old radios are not a restricted item.

onebadwolf · ‎07-08-2018

3 different items. 3 different sellers, solid state, no exotic wood, no Polonium, no Unobtainium no stealth paint from the B2, and I don't pay PST, I'm in Alberta. Well, I shouldn't pay it, but its not like they itemize it. Maybe I do.

I don't think Ebay would accept a non itemized bill. Why should we?

Nice one about the ethical dilema. The only ethical dilema for PB, is whether or not they give Ebay their cut.

nebulaastronomy · ‎07-08-2018

Hi

Just want to make comment.I have found GSP plus US shipping cost makes the E-bay US market more costly than buying the same item in Canada. Why would I want to buy something on E-bay and pay more than my local retailer?

Unless it is the only place I could buy a certain item and needed it badly I stay away from the US E-bay seller.

marnotom! · ‎07-09-2018

@nebulaastronomy wrote:

Just want to make comment.I have found GSP plus US shipping cost makes the E-bay US market more costly than buying the same item in Canada. Why would I want to buy something on E-bay and pay more than my local retailer?

Unless it is the only place I could buy a certain item and needed it badly I stay away from the US E-bay seller.

There are lots of factors besides the GSP that make buying from the US more expensive than buying from Canada. The exchange rate is an obvious one. Other shipping methods add to the overall cost of an item, as well. Then there's the possibility (albeit slim) that your item may get hit with retaliatory duties thanks to actions by the orange-haired dumpster fire to the south of us.

And keep in mind that the GSP is a forwarding program, so you're paying not just the GSP's charge for shipping your item from the US to you, but also the seller's shipping charge for getting the item to the GSP's shipping hub in Kentucky. If the seller chooses a pricey shipping method for getting the item to Kentucky, that's going to have as much as if not more of an effect on the overall cost of the item as the GSP itself.

What I'm trying to say here is that it's the nature of international sales that shipping will add a fair bit to an item's overall cost. If you're looking for cheap, stick to flea markets and garage sales where there's no shipping charges to deal with.

femmefan1946 · ‎07-09-2018

Unless it is the only place I could buy a certain item and needed it badly I stay away from the US E-bay seller.

Gosh. That's why I mostly buy locally for everything.

And while Victoria is smaller than Ottawa,where I used to live, most of the important things are available here. I even found a source for Montreal-style bagels.

But DD lives in the Kootenays and even WalMart is two mountain passes away. Online is much more important for her.

Did you know the Watch List will compare up to three listings at a time, while you decide which is the best deal?

(And the best deal is not always the lowest price.)