eBay

fort2b · ‎07-17-2016

In the item description, the GSP no longer shows import charges, just the shipping cost. The buyer won't know he's going to be charged import charges, which are often way higher than they should be, until after he/she has bought. Expect some angry buyers if you use GSP.

This probably won't effect many Canadian sellers as I doubt many of us use GSP but for those that do, beware. The US and UK sellers, many of whom do use GSP, are going to get a lot of angry buyers from this change. Nice surprise charge after you've committed to buy. Cool.

00nevermind00 · ‎07-30-2016

@mjwl2006 wrote:

I know this will sound far fetched but since computer systems track our ISP and know exactly where we are, logged in or not, is there any chance that items viewed by outsiders have these charges blended into the ITEM PRICE?

I don't think they would dare to tinker with the seller-set item price..... yet.

It would seem like a very fancy schmancy thing to do for folks who can't even get two shopping cart systems to connect. And the risk of messing up would be immense.

I don't think that they would do such a thing. But the mere fact that we're speculating that they could shows just how cynical we have become with all the various (and temporary) "improvements" that have been made to this program.

i.am.vivian · ‎07-30-2016

@mjwl2006 wrote:

I don't think they would dare to tinker with the seller-set item price..... yet.

LOL! I suppose not but I don't put anything past them! 🙂

sylviebee · ‎07-30-2016

@00nevermind00 wrote:
Shipping cost isn't enough to cover the taxes etc. so it's clear that something is going on behind the scene that's not quite Just out of curiosity, what shows up as the shipping price for the item (both on .com and .ca) when you do a list search for it? Is it significantly different than what shows up on the listing page?

The same amount shows up on both, with eBay.ca having the added C$ conversion.

What we're seeing may also be a bit of a glitch--as you suggest--based on the fact that this is an auction-style listing and import charges can't be finalized until the auction has been completed.

Most of what I buy on eBay is still sold at auction, so most of the listings I look at are auction listings. Granted, I don't look at GSP listings very often, but this is the first time I've seen a $200+ item with zero import charges, that I can recall. Normally the amount under "import charges" goes up as the bidding increases, with a note that the final amount will be known at checkout.

I never analyze the fees unless I'm very serious about buying so I haven't done the comparisons that others have.

What I do know is that I've now had quite a number of purchases (and growing) which simply don't add up (just like the one for $200 with no import fees).

The manipulations are all over the board so we don't even have the luxury of seeing a pattern.

momcqueen · ‎07-30-2016

@i.am.vivian wrote:
@mjwl2006 wrote:
I don't think they would dare to tinker with the seller-set item price..... yet.
LOL! I suppose not but I don't put anything past them! 🙂

It's frightening to consider it would ever come to that. If ebay were to start adding fees to the base seller-set asking price (whether buy-it-now or auction) what would stop them from arbitrarily lowering a price to 'help' an item sell for a seller? I don't think they would set this sort of precedent even to make the dreaded GSP more palatable.

And we all know auctions are a very fickle game.

If you set an item to start at 99 cents, it might inspire a bidding war that sends it soaring to $220 whereas if you set it at a $19.99 opening bid, it may sell for $20.12.

i.am.vivian · ‎07-30-2016

@sylviebee wrote:

It does sound far fetched, but then the things they're now doing to manipulate the GSP make no sense either.
It would be difficult to vary item price in tandem with GSP charges because every buyer would see a different item price. For auction items even more difficult.

Everything you have said so far makes sense but then there HAS TO be some explanation for no charges on a $200 item. Since the Import Charges are different from depending where you are logged into, for example different provinces and countries see different charges, would it matter if they saw different item prices? Nonsense, I know, but eBay and GSP have shown themselves to be very crafty and I wouldn't trust them at all.

I have no idea how they're making this work for them because I do believe that by law the P.B. gang has to charge import fees for items over C$20 with no exceptions. It's one thing for Custom's Officials to bend the rules but P.B. doesn't / shouldn't have that leeway.

That's just it. Charges have to be paid, its the law. They are not paying our charges for us so they are up to something somewhere. All these GPS threads are just to help them find the annoyances and cover them up somehow.

When the total P.B. fee is barely enough to cover import taxes the amount of the total charges defies logic.

And I do not for a second believe it is ever a "glitch".

i.am.vivian · ‎07-30-2016

@00nevermind00 wrote:

I don't think that they would do such a thing.

Probably not but as you and others have said there has to be SOME explanation and they are so crafty and underhanded I don't credit them with making an honest mistake unless you count badly underestimating how hateful Canadians find the pgm in the first place.

But the mere fact that we're speculating that they could shows just how cynical we have become with all the various (and temporary) "improvements" that have been made to this program.

Canadians and this board are very lucky to have you because you don't miss much and can't be fooled. You are spot on every time and manage to calmly and factually point out what is so wrong it all.

marnotom! · ‎07-31-2016

@i.am.vivian wrote:
I have no idea how they're making this work for them because I do believe that by law the P.B. gang has to charge import fees for items over C$20 with no exceptions. It's one thing for Custom's Officials to bend the rules but P.B. doesn't / shouldn't have that leeway.

That's just it. Charges have to be paid, its the law. They are not paying our charges for us so they are up to something somewhere. All these GPS threads are just to help them find the annoyances and cover them up somehow.

One more time: Pitney Bowes pays the taxes and duty owing on a GSP sale. It's considered the "importer of record".

The "import charges" are a mix of the taxes and duty that was calculated as owing on the sale plus any customs and processing fees not included in the GSP shipping charge. That's why they're called "import charges" and not anything that's synonymous with tax and duty, because technically speaking the buyer doesn't pay those charges.

Pitney Bowes does not have to charge eBay buyers taxes, duty or other fees related to importing an item into Canada. However, it does have to ensure that those charges get covered somehow.

That said, I'm just as baffled as you and other posters are about how it's managing to accomplish this in these "no import charges" listings.

afantiques · ‎07-31-2016

I don't know if this is still the case, but in the past, on auction listings, there was a link that enabled you to see what the total price would be if your maximum bid was reached. This was a price with the import charges and shipping included. It was on the bid page after entering a bid but before the bid was confirmed, and I found it while playing with some test auctions a US seller set up for the purpose. Marnotom will remember karriandlarrysales. It was extremely obscure and may just have been a question mark or the word 'total'.

I do not want to accidentally buy something and I do not even know if this intermediate stage, bid placed but not confirmed, still exists as I have not bought anything on ebay for years.

I do know that you could use the system with GSP items to find out if the bid was going to be a highest bid without actually placing it. If your bid would be beaten, and just jack up the price, there was no link to the GSP terms and conditions for buyers, if the bid was going to beat all others, there was a link to the terms that you

had to click (and in theory, read) before proceeding to confirm the bid was possible.

If someone knows a US seller willing to set up a test auction some experiments could be done.

sylviebee · ‎07-31-2016

P.B. has to pay duty and taxes for items over C$20 imported into Canada in the same way that a retail outlet has to pay taxes for items sold.

The retail store can bury those taxes if it wishes (and some do), but the taxes have to paid in the same way that P.B. has to remit the taxes it collects when eBay items cross the border.

Since there is no easy way to account for the way P.B. seems to be waiving those taxes for some items, I've wondered about the following:

For a long time import charges were so high that there was no easy explanation for what appeared to be overcharges .......... the opposite of what we're seeing now.

Since P.B. does not provide customers with a break down of the bill, they have a lot of leeway in the way they bill customers.

However, while they can get away with that slackness with customers, Canada Revenue Agency requires a penny to penny accounting for taxes collected. For them it has to add up.

Collecting taxes from customers on behalf of the CRA and failing to remit them is a serious offence.

It's possible that P.B. overcharged their customers in the past and has more money slated for duty and taxes than they've actually remitted to the CRA.

That money is not P.B.'s money. It belongs to our government as it was collected on behalf of customers to be remitted to the CRA.

It's crossed my mind that P.B. is now drawing from that fund and paying duty and taxes with that store of money.

I know it's bizarre but it would account for what we're seeing now.

momcqueen · ‎07-31-2016

That's an interesting theory. And we know that ebay pushed the Global Shipping program inadvertently into the limelight when it opened the conversation about the de minimus a few weeks ago. This causes me to speculate that CCRA started looking harder at what PB might be doing after that. Maybe?

marnotom! · ‎07-31-2016

@sylviebee wrote:

That money is not P.B.'s money. It belongs to our government as it was collected on behalf of customers to be remitted to the CRA.

I'm not trying to defend Pitney Bowes, but if I'm reading your point correctly, I have to disagree. Pitney Bowes technically did not (and does not) collect taxes and duty from buyers in these cases. They're on record as the ones having paid taxes and duty. The buyers simply "paid Pitney Bowes back". So if Pitney Bowes miscalculated the taxes and duty owing on a GSP item, the buyers would have "paid back" Pitney Bowes more than what Pitney Bowes paid to CRA.

So, unfortunately, any amounts surplus to what Pitney Bowes paid CRA and its subcontractors is Pitney Bowes' money now, as per the terms of the GSP.

i.am.vivian · ‎07-31-2016

@marnotom! wrote:

One more time: Pitney Bowes pays the taxes and duty owing on a GSP sale. It's considered the "importer of record".

You misunderstood. The other poster and I KNOW that. But the charges are owing to Canada and many of us doubt that PB is going to cover our costs for us out of their own pocket no matter how small the amount.

marnotom! · ‎07-31-2016

@i.am.vivian wrote:
@marnotom! wrote:
One more time: Pitney Bowes pays the taxes and duty owing on a GSP sale. It's considered the "importer of record".

You misunderstood. The other poster and I KNOW that. But the charges are owing to Canada and many of us doubt that PB is going to cover our costs for us out of their own pocket no matter how small the amount.

Which is pretty much what I'm getting at in the rest of my post.

sylviebee · ‎07-31-2016

@marnotom! wrote:
@sylviebee wrote:

That money is not P.B.'s money. It belongs to our government as it was collected on behalf of customers to be remitted to the CRA.

I'm not trying to defend Pitney Bowes, but if I'm reading your point correctly, I have to disagree. Pitney Bowes technically did not (and does not) collect taxes and duty from buyers in these cases. They're on record as the ones having paid taxes and duty. The buyers simply "paid Pitney Bowes back". So if Pitney Bowes miscalculated the taxes and duty owing on a GSP item, the buyers would have "paid back" Pitney Bowes more than what Pitney Bowes paid to CRA.

So, unfortunately, any amounts surplus to what Pitney Bowes paid CRA and its subcontractors is Pitney Bowes' money now, as per the terms of the GSP.

Sheesh!

sylviebee · ‎08-01-2016

@sylviebee wrote:
@marnotom! wrote:
@sylviebee wrote:

That money is not P.B.'s money. It belongs to our government as it was collected on behalf of customers to be remitted to the CRA.

I'm not trying to defend Pitney Bowes, but if I'm reading your point correctly, I have to disagree. Pitney Bowes technically did not (and does not) collect taxes and duty from buyers in these cases. They're on record as the ones having paid taxes and duty. The buyers simply "paid Pitney Bowes back". So if Pitney Bowes miscalculated the taxes and duty owing on a GSP item, the buyers would have "paid back" Pitney Bowes more than what Pitney Bowes paid to CRA.

So, unfortunately, any amounts surplus to what Pitney Bowes paid CRA and its subcontractors is Pitney Bowes' money now, as per the terms of the GSP.
Sheesh!

I compared to the way a store collects taxes hoping to head you off, but it didn't work so I’ll elaborate.

Just like P.B., A store collects taxes on items sold and those taxes are calculated using a precise formula. Then, on behalf of the buyer the store remits those taxes to the CRA. That money is not calculated into the store's profits come tax time because that money belongs to the government of Canada. The store is on record as having paid the taxes and buyers do not pay the store back for paying their customers taxes.
Same goes for P.B.

Things were weird with P.B. right out of the gate because for customers they lump everything together and add handling fees and shipping costs to the bill so buyers never have an itemized bill. That practice leads to a lot mistrust and suspicion.

That does not mean that P.B. can have the same lax attitude with CRA. CRA will require the correct paperwork with exact numbers calculated before the payment was made. The amount billed and collected would be determined using a precise formula just like stores do. It’s not a random number. It’s very precise.

If P.B. presents numbers to the CRA which are all over the place with handling fees and shipping costs varying unsystematically, CRA is going to start asking questions on behalf of Canadians. It’s their job to protect us from that kind of thing/theft.

For the government P.B. will have to show that billing follows a predetermined precise formula applied in a systematic fashion to each and every sale.

Perhaps P.B.’s paperwork didn’t line up that way and what we’re seeing now is an attempt to correct previous “mistakes."

I don’t know if that’s what happening, but it’s certainly not a glitch and it’s a given that P.B. not giving freebies away.

pierrelebel · ‎08-01-2016

"Same goes for P.B."

Not quite and that is the problem. Most readers and posters here identify the GST/HST to what they know and see in their every day life.

That is not the way it works when dealing with consolidators like Pitney Bowes and many others.

Take a look at LL Bean, a well known and respected American exporters. In their terms and conditions, they state;

'We assess 0% for duty and brokerage on goods made in the US, Canada and Mexico and 19% on all other goods. "

Now, we all know that 19% is not accurate in all instances. It is an average and that is what LL Bean charges to Canadians. There will be no refund if the duty only costs 10% to LLB or no extra charge if the Canadian duty happens to be 25%.

In addition to "duty" on goods not manufactured in North America, LL Bean charges GST/HST based on the province or residence.

http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/510628?nav=sr&term=duty

Pitney Bowes works differently but the concept is the same. Canadians are charged "import fees" representing more or less what PB pays plus a handling fee. Now the amount of duty and tax paid by PB is calculated based on the information supplied by the seller (if any). And that is another area of difficulties (LL Bean does not have that problem as they know what they are exporting).

sylviebee · ‎08-01-2016

Note also that P.B. varies the amount charged according to the Province the item is destined for and that indicates that the charge varies and is not a flat rate %age of the selling price.

You can't have it both ways.

The theory I presented is only a theory in an attempt to explain why GSP charges make no sense. I don't have the facts and neither does anyone else.

It's just one possible explanation for charges (or in this case, lack thereof) that don't add up.

pierrelebel · ‎08-01-2016

" I don't have the facts"

I totally agree with you.

sylviebee · ‎08-01-2016

And clearly you do not have the facts either as your explanation makes no sense.

However, since I do have items shipped via the GSP I want to know what I'm buying/paying for with that service so I try to understand what the fees are about.

Some of us are just curious that way.

You are free not to ask questions and/or not to use the GSP if you choose not to.