Why is eBay so sneaky with the import charges - Global Shipping Program?

[greenmangoes]

I bought something and it did not show any import charges, I was viewing it via .ca which usually show the import charges.  When I got the Paypal email it says "Total international shipping and import charge".

Are they doing this because they know people are refusing to buy things that have import charges? Not cool!!

Plus when things are purchased via the Global Shipping Program it takes much longer to arrive.  And, WHY are we paying import charges on USED goods?

[pjcdn2005]

I always see the import charges on .ca in the shipping tab area but on .com they can’t be seen until the item is added to the cart. In your case, was the total paid to PB and the seller more than the total that you were shown at the time of purchase?   It should work out to the same amount as the import charges were likely rolled into the international shipping portion when you made the purchase,

Import fees consist of a handling charge by PB as well as any taxes/duty etc that are due.  If you buy a used item from Value Village here, you pay tax...it’s the same when you buy a used item from the US.  

[greenmangoes]

The total was not more than what I saw it's just annoys me that it was hidden and I do hate paying import charges.

Yes, I get what you are saying re: paying taxes, and I don't mind, but taxes is never more than the cost of the item, but I assume it's the handling fee that makes it so much more expensive.

Thanks!

[momcqueen]

"...And, WHY are we paying import charges on USED goods?"

Used goods are not exempt from import fees or taxes.

[reallynicestamps]

Duty would be charged on any product made in a country Canada doesn't have a free trade agreement with.
So with today's events, expect to pay more for items made in the USA.
On the other hand, you can still buy stuff from Europe (CREN agreement), most of the Pacific Rim (TPP+ ) (but not China), and an assortment of others (Chile, Costa Rica, Israel among others) without duty.

But you will still be paying sales taxes.

And the GSP fee is ~$5USD.

Canada Post charges $9.95 on items that are assessed

UPS and FedEx start at $25 and go up depending on value.

[marnotom!]

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@greenmangoes wrote:

I bought something and it did not show any import charges, I was viewing it via .ca which usually show the import charges.  When I got the Paypal email it says "Total international shipping and import charge".

Are they doing this because they know people are refusing to buy things that have import charges? Not cool!!

Plus when things are purchased via the Global Shipping Program it takes much longer to arrive.  And, WHY are we paying import charges on USED goods?

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What's the value of the item?

In the early days of the GSP, all items had "import charges" on them.  This raised the hackles of many buyers (and not just those in Canada) who--unaware that the GSP "import charges" included processing and clearance fees--felt that the GSP was charging taxes/duties when they didn't apply.

For items destined for Canada, the "import charges" are now added to the shipping cost if the item's value is less than C$20.  I'm just wondering if you've purchased a low-value item and at checkout, the "import charges" were separated from the shipping charge.

In addition, a couple of years ago, there were some experiments by eBay and/or Pitney Bowes where the "import charges" were stated in listings for more expensive items as "$0.00" but they were still folded into the shipping charge.  The math involved seemed kind of questionable, though.  My recollection from other posters is that there was no separation of the "import charges" at checkout, however.

[retroman_studios]

Of interesting note here, is that although CBSA and Canada Post may not process anything on imports under $20, I'm sure PBI will surely charge a processing fee even if there is no taxes or duties to collect, as they can't be expected (rightfully so as a business providing freight forwarding) to do it for free.

Although I can't prove such is the case, I highly suspect that such a processing fee is there even for items under $20.

[momcqueen]

“Although I can't prove such is the case, I highly suspect that such a processing fee is there even for items under $20.”

Of course, Pitney Bowes isn’t providing the forwarding service for free. We cannot assume, however, that the buyer pays directly for that on a per-parcel basis. This is an eBay program, it’s ebay’s responsibility to fund the fee-for-service as part of whatever contractual payment arrangements they made with PB when the program was launched.

That’s not to say that it isn’t part of a handling cost rolled into shipping which leaves ‘import fees’ mostly for the government which seemed to be such a point of contention for so many.

I don’t spend much time thinking about this subject, to be honest; I buy from within Canada 99 per cent of the time. For all but one per cent of purchases, I stopped importing from the USA and traveling there a few years ago due to the political climate.

[momcqueen]

Of note is that when you buy from the American side of The River, they also collect ‘a deposit’ for ‘import fees’ upfront. However, the buyer is refunded to the penny any overcharge after it ships. I haven’t analyzed with my limited knowledge what portion of ‘import fees’ are in fact a handling fee but it’s a different kettle of fish due to this being a singular process for that retailer who’s shipping their own stock from their own distribution centre and completing their own brokerage process unlike the arrangements between eBay and the seller and Pitney Bowes.

[momcqueen]

Also, I don’t doubt Pitney Bowes is earning their fees.

Government forms? Badly-packed items minus required documentation from casual sellers? You couldn’t pay me to do that all day.

All we hear about are the costs, bad repacks, and delays but I shudder to think what disaster gets unloaded at Erlanger, Kentucky each day. Prohibited or restricted items? Stuff already broken because some ignoramus threw it into a improper box?

[pjcdn2005]

The  buyer always pays a processing/handling fee to PB for using the gsp. I believe that it is about $5 or $6.  If the item is over $20C that fee is part of the import charges shown.  If the item is less than that, the handling fee is hidden in the shipping charge.  

That is one  of the the reasons that shipping for an inexpensive item bought through the gsp can seem inexpensive.  The shipping cost of a $50 item may be $12 and shown as that amount because the ‘extra’ fee is shown as an import charge.  The $10 item may have the same base shipping cost of $12 but because there are no taxes etc being charged  (and therefore nothing shows as an import fee) that cost will show as $17 or $18 because the handling fees are added to the shipping cost.

[marnotom!]

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@retroman_studios wrote:

Of interesting note here, is that although CBSA and Canada Post may not process anything on imports under $20, I'm sure PBI will surely charge a processing fee even if there is no taxes or duties to collect, as they can't be expected (rightfully so as a business providing freight forwarding) to do it for free.

Although I can't prove such is the case, I highly suspect that such a processing fee is there even for items under $20.

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No need to "prove" anything.  As I suggested earlier, there used to be "import charges" on sub-C$20 items in the GSP's early days.  (That charge was about C$3.34 at the time.)  And as others have posted, those charges are now added to the shipping charge.  This can be noted in auction listings where there may not be "import charges" when the current bid amount is low, but they suddenly appear along with a revised shipping quote when the high bid amount exceeds C$20.

Also consider that we only know for sure that the C$20 tax/duty-free threshold applies to items shipped by mail or courier, and as the GSP uses neither of these methods to get items from Kentucky to Canada they may be subject to tax/duty.  This would be about C$3.00 at the most, depending on the HST rate of the province where the item's destined.  Pitney Bowes may have calculated an average or median amount and applied it to that US$3.34 charge in the GSP's early days.

Finally, and this may be getting typically nitpicky here, Pitney Bowes doesn't "collect" taxes or duties due.  It pays them on the buyer's behalf.  The "import charges" are how the buyer reimburses Pitney Bowes.  Couriers do something similar, but they call it a "fee advance" and some of them charge a rather hefty premium for that privilege.

[retroman_studios]

The only reason I mentioned not being able to prove it was I wasn't paying that much attention to early days of GSP, so I only vaguely recall some of the discussion going on regarding GSP at the time. But thanks for clarifying that. I had a suspicion that no company in their right mind would pass up a chance to levy some sort of fee. 

The GSP is certainly a huge mess. It's truly sad that eBay hasn't spent more resources to educating customers. I do a fairly frequent amount of purchases via GSP because some of the items I want are only being offered via GSP. So I've seen enough of the issues that happen to shipping API disconnects, seized shipments (PBI botched import forms), long delays between API updates, even late shipments. 

One tip I would have for folks to try (in some scenarios) to reduce the cost of GSP items is to add a few more items from the same seller in your cart. If the seller has shipping discounts, these discounts can also heavily affect the GSP shipping portion. Sometimes it works out good, other times it's not worth it. In my most recent case, by adding multiple items from one seller, it reduced the shipping from being aprox. $15 to roughly 2-3 dollars per item. So although I added 5 items, I reduced my shipping expenses considerably by adding extra items to the cart. (as opposed to ordering them individually)

Like I said, sometimes this works, other times not so much.  But worth a try. Just place multiple items in your cart from the seller and see how it affects your shipping/import costs.

[marnotom!]

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@retroman_studios wrote:

The GSP is certainly a huge mess. It's truly sad that eBay hasn't spent more resources to educating customers. I do a fairly frequent amount of purchases via GSP because some of the items I want are only being offered via GSP. So I've seen enough of the issues that happen to shipping API disconnects, seized shipments (PBI botched import forms), long delays between API updates, even late shipments. 

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The crux of the problem as I see it is that many of the problems you describe are due to sellers not listing, categorizing, or packaging their items in a manner that would simplify and expedite their handling at the Global Shipping Center.  

And that's due to the fact that sellers don't appear to be bound to a set of terms and conditions associated with the GSP the way that buyers using the program are.  The .com site has a warm and fuzzy page or two of "FAQs" about the program, but since they're not paying PitneyBowes to actually use the service and bear no responsibility for the safe transit of the item once it's accepted in Erlanger, they don't have any sort of stake in the success or failure of their shipments and no financial outlay to account for.

I still maintain that it should have been clear from day one that the GSP is a forwarding service.  It would have gone a long way to managing buyers' and sellers' expectations of the program and given a better overall sense of how and why it operates the way it does.

Having said that, I'm not sure how eBay (or PitneyBowes) would be able to educate buyers and sellers more thoroughly on the use of the program.  For buyers, there are links to pages with more information and to the terms and conditions on every listing page where the GSP has been applied.  For sellers, the GSP right on the user agreement page with a link to more information.  These are both locations where people should be reading, but it's difficult to make people read stuff when they figure they know it all anyway.  (Guilty as charged in other circumstances!)

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

Personal observation.

When I receive a package sent by USPS without GSP and there are payable fees, I get a receipt when I make payment. Unable to confirm specifics with other couriers because I haven't required to use in ages.

When I receive a package sent with GSP, to date I have yet to get a receipt included with the package. I would like to see what I am being charged in detail.

Shouldn't there be a receipt included for all packages, for situations where a buyer requires that amount to claim for tax purposes?

-CM

[femmefan1946]

No.

You'd think so, but you are not paying duty and sales taxes.

PB/GSP are paying them and charging you a fee to do so. The fee is enough to cover duty, sales taxes, and a service fee.

situations where a buyer requires that amount to claim for tax purposes?

Again, no.

Part of the GSP agreement is that all goods handled by the GSP are for personal use.

Yeah, yeah, we all know that's not true.

But since consumers can't claim duty or sales taxes as a deduction, the line by line breakdown is moot.

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

Again, so why do you get a receipt when you pay at the time of pickup with Canadapost(It arrives with the package)? And we know that there are times that an item is decided to be valued higher than declared. An additional charge is billed and you would have to pay prior to receiving your parcel. What would happen if it was decided to have a lower value, would they send a refund. Probably not!!! My guess why they don't include the breakdown is pure laziness and a bit of a coverup.

-CM

[femmefan1946]

Because Canada Post is only delivering the mail.

The receipt shows their service charge ($9.95) for taking your money and transferring it to CBSA. The delivery itself is not charged for, any more than your birthday card from Aunt Em.

And you are importing and directly paying the duty and sales taxes when you use the postal system.

The duty and sales taxes are assessed by CBSA in Canada, not by PB/GSP in Erlanger*.

With GSP packages, the Canada Post carrier who brings the package to your doorstep is only doing that, because the import fees were calculated and paid before your seller was even instructed to ship.

*Welllllll, more likely by a computer based on the seller's description. Which is also the main reason some items are opened by GSP, checking to see what the heck is actually in the package.

[marnotom!]

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@lotzofuniquegoodies wrote:

Again, so why do you get a receipt when you pay at the time of pickup with Canadapost(It arrives with the package)? And we know that there are times that an item is decided to be valued higher than declared. An additional charge is billed and you would have to pay prior to receiving your parcel. What would happen if it was decided to have a lower value, would they send a refund. Probably not!!! My guess why they don't include the breakdown is pure laziness and a bit of a coverup.

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I'm unclear from your post whether you're referring mostly to Canada Post and its relationship with CBSA or if you quickly turned your guns back on the GSP.

In the early days of the GSP, the "import charges" were referred to as an estimate, not a firm quote, and that those charges would be finalized at checkout.   An estimate is a calculation of charges based on prior experiences, and when you think about it, because of all the variables involved in calculating import charges and sellers often not providing enough information on their items for the PitneyBowes bot, a "bang on" calculation of the import charges is pretty much impossible.  So what you end up getting charged as an estimate by the bot is likely not going to be exactly what PitneyBowes ended up spending or paying out to its contractees.

Just like when I had my deck rebuilt by professionals or some too tall trees hacked down by a tree-felling firm, I feel pretty certain that the estimates I received bore little resemblance to what the jobs actually cost, and those estimates certainly didn't tell me what every single nail, 4X4 or chainsaw tank full of gas would set me back.

The way PitneyBowes probably sees it, you're paying for a service, and as is the case with most services, you don't see a charge breakdown.  There is an eBay help page that does give a bit more explanation on the various things that can go into the import charges, however.

https://www.ebay.ca/pages/help/buy/shipping-globally.html