After the Good and the Bad, comes the Ugly - eBay's Late Shipment Defect

[4991jack]

I think too many people, me among them, are slow and too quiet in recognizing the good things about eBay.

So let's start there:

eBay provides unequalled market access in an environment that is mostly well regulated and even-handed for buyer and seller alike. The website is mostly intuitive and, despite the glitches that occasionally arise, runs like a charm in view of its tremendous volume.

Some of eBay's features and innovations are as appealing to me as a plateful of cold fish - but I'm sure many others are thrilled with, for instance, the research options that are available.

There's much more, of course, but you get the idea: eBay does a lot very well.

But not everything.

Which gets me around to the dreaded LATE SHIPMENT DEFECT, which I find to be mostly unnecessary, unyielding, poorly applied and overly punitive.

If you are a small-ticket item Canadian seller with any amount of sales to USA-based buyers, I'm sure you will agree.

I am such a seller - many sales ranging from $1.95 to $9.95 and roughly half of them going to the USA.

The thought of US buyers liniing up to pay Canada Post's costs for tracked shipping is to laugh. Rare is the buyer who will pony up $13.94 for tracked shipping just to have peace of mind as to where their $5 item is in its journey.

So that leaves the only alternative - economy untracked mail - Canada Post lettermail and US Small Packet air. In general terms they are more affordable, usually reliable and almost always slow.

And this is where eBay fails us terribly. Fabricated and inaccurate estimated delivery dates are too short for economy delivery, causing no end of problems where there doesn't have to be any.

Currently, I have two late shipment defects on eBay.com. Judging by the number of overdue deliveries I have and the 'Where Is My Item' questions from buyers, more defects are in the pipeline.

Even though I religiously ship the next day, I know the chances of my items being late are better than they are of being on time.

So I send an email  advistory to every US buyer on the day of shipment, telling them their item is likely going to be late and asking them to ignore its so-called late arrival.

I also put a dated enclosure in with each mailing, asking the same.

If it wasn't for the good grace of nearly all of the US buyers, I could not imagine how many late shipment defects I would have.

Why should any Canadian seller have to go to all this trouble just to get around what is an inadequate and poorly conceived eBay policy? Shouldn't eBay at least lengthen its delivery estimates to Canadian sellers a fighting chance? Is it too preposterous to think eBay should revisit this policy?

[reallynicestamps]

I don't track most of my shipments because of the high cost of tracking.

And also because LetterMail is usually both fast and secure.

This has been a little more dicey during these pandemic slowdowns.

I do have the advantage of selling in categories where buyers not only read, but actively enjoy following instructions.

One thing to put out there, even without tracking  Canadian sellers can qualify for Global Top Rated Seller status, which gives us a badge (whoopdie-doo!) on any site except dotCOM, small discounts on shipping, and a few other minor benefits.

So eBay has recognized that the US passion for tracking is not a world phenomenon.

For lost and delayed packages, without tracking we are on our own.

So let me tell you the Good News about Cookie Jar Insurance.

Basically this means that we add a tiny amount (pennies, perhaps a dime) to every asking price, as a sort of premium for self-insurance.

When we get a complaint about undelivered product (or Not As Described for that matter) we go to the virtual Cookie Jar of pennies and use that to pay for refunds or for return shipping (and refunds).

When we promptly deal with customer problems, we do not get Defects.

No. We can't prove the customer is lying. But we are insured by the Cookie Jar against losses.

Late shipping defects turn up when there have been delays and our shipments arrive after the delivery window. 

I agree that asking the customer when she leaves feedback if the shipment arrived on time is pretty useless, considering that less than 40% and dropping of transactions get any feedback and that no other part of FB is used by eBay to assess member accounts.

My personal way of dealing with the potential for customers worrying about untracked shipping is to put the date for shipping in the FB that I leave. This seems to work pretty well.

YMMV.

[ricarmic]

My late shipping rate is the highest that it has ever been.  (about 85% of my items are untracked)

As a note I don't think late shipping is physically a "defect" as are ebay resolved INRs and out of stock situations.

The last time I read the "rules" it says that ebay MAY take action if our late shipping rate goes above 3% (or 5% for international).

I haven't seen anyone with a significant sales rate that has gone above the 3%/5% say here whether anything has happened, my suspicion is that it is not a measured statistic that goes against us in the search algorithm (same as negative and neutral feedbacks).

I'm only at 1.4% right now, so I'm a fair ways away from finding out myself.

I do think the "estimates" are confusing to the buyers as is the process around how they should enquire as to status (which tends to initiate the case process). I too send a special note advising of the delivery issues, and I have generally patient buyers, but the estimates and process around slow deliveries, is causing a lot of unecessary work and issues around status requests for packages.

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

@ricarmic 

In speaking to a newer seller that sells mostly low value with limited margin items that go untracked when he reached I believe the 5 % level for defects it immediately caused his FVF's to increase per item. And no way to appeal. As a Canadian seller he really has no way to ship low valued items anything but untracked. In your situation with possibly higher volumes it may be easier to "stay under the radar."

-Lotz

[pjcdn2005]

That seller must have been confused about why they were paying  more.  A late shipment is not a defect and they can not put a seller below standard.  Too many late shipment dings can drop a seller from top rated to above standard but other than that, eBay 'may' change the sellers handling time if their late shipments are above 10%.

[ricarmic]

Well there you go, I went and looked it up and yes late shipping is a "defect" too....

It looks like if you break the threshold, it adds another 5% to the FVF ie if it was 10% before it goes up to 15% as well as a host of other possible account related ramifications.

[pjcdn2005]

@ricarmic 

Where do you see that?

The information given isn't that clear buy afaik it has never been a defect.

[ricarmic]

Note that these are .COM I didn't check .CA probably I should have....I'm unable to cut and paste the actual bits, these are where I found the info, perhaps I'm misunderstanding wouldn't be 47th time......

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/selling/seller-levels-performance-standards?id=4080&st=12&pos=1&qu... 

Then within that the link to fees:

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/fees-credits-invoices/selling-fees?id=4364 

[pjcdn2005]

Those pages are not very clear as it referes more to meeting performance standards so I can't show you where it specificially states that late shipments are not considered a defect.  But it always been stated previously that defects are what makes you fall below standard and there is no mention of late shipments being considered a defect.

On your seller dashboard  on the left -  click on 'all seller details' so that it gives you the percentages and number of defects and late shipments that you can get before going from top rated to above standard. Note that it specifies that the transaction defect rate is based on the number of transactions cancelled for out of stock or for were unresolved cases.

In the section below that it shows the numbers for on time shipping and in that section it mentions that  your handling time might be changed by ebay if you have too many late shipments.  It's possible that it would affect your items in search but that isn't mentioned.

Then near the top of the screen you can change from top rated to above standard.   Note that the late shipment info disappears as there is no specific requirements regarding late shipments and remaining above standard .  The only requirements to remain there are to stay below a certain percentage of  unresolved claim and oos defects.   You only pay more if you are below standard and late shipment isn't taken into account.

As I said, it's not really in black and white but that's all I've got for you. 🙂

[doc_scribe]

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@lotzofuniquegoodies wrote:

@ricarmic 

In speaking to a newer seller that sells mostly low value with limited margin items that go untracked when he reached I believe the 5 % level for defects it immediately caused his FVF's to increase per item. And no way to appeal. As a Canadian seller he really has no way to ship low valued items anything but untracked. In your situation with possibly higher volumes it may be easier to "stay under the radar."

-Lotz

---

Annecdotal reports such a this usually motivate me to do additional research, rather than jump to hasty conclusions. In this case, however, l did not need to look beyond my own post evaluation Service Metrics Dashboard and eBay messages.

Tab 1 - Item Not As Described

Zero. Zilch. Zip. No surprises here.

Tab 2 - Item Not Received

"Domestic" Dropdown

Again, no real surprise. Most of my domestic shipments are free (included) Letter Extra economy shipments. So 1 out of 206 INR/Refunds compared with an [unidentified] peer who appears to simply have a higher volume offset is still "cookie jar".

Tab 2 - Item Not Received

"International Emerging Region" Dropdown

Another nothing burger. BTW, what does "International Emerging Region" mean anyway?

Tab 2 - Item Not Received

"International Matured Region" Dropdown

Vaulting from Zero to Very High in a single evaluation, accompanied by a message spelling out the impact and consequences does not give me a warm-fuzzy:

No other effect - so far - on my final value fees. But with eBay's service metrics dashboard algorithm now tirelessly tracking this on a rolling basis that *might* just be a matter of time. I don't know, but can no longer afford to flip-off impatient/scammy INR claims as "cookie jar" stuff anymore.

And I think it's worth noting that for the past 18 months ALL of my U.S. Shiments have been tracked with no INR refunds issued. So the overwhelming majority of these claims/defects defacto must be coming from my once routine untracked Air Small Packets to UK, EU, AU and NZ buyers who filed INR claims and/or received refunds. As a result, everything International now goes tracked only, or not at all.

[reallynicestamps]

Welp.

We could ask eBay.

Or at least tyler@ebay 

Is Late Shipping a Defect?

Is Late Arrival a Defect?

I think we might have been conflating these.

We can get our shipments into the mail within seconds, and still have them arrive late.

And is "late" the opinion of the buyer (who expects next day delivery on Easter Sunday in Florida) or is it based on the last estimated date?

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

@reallynicestamps 

Like the old adage if a tree falls in the forest when no one is around does it make a sound?

Is a parcel really late when it is delayed in/by customs and it's not noted with the online tracking? USA to Canada(listings) does sometimes but not always mention the possibility of customs delays. Canada to USA/Intl (listings) do not. According to eBay/the buyer, if something arrives after the guesstimated date it IS late. Leeway to exceptions isn't really a considered as part of the equation, unless maybe if it's fully recorded.

-Lotz

[armbo_comics]

for the last month or so there has been an ebay glitch reversing the shipping times for US and Canadian ETA's.

this is a problem when, as mentioned, we send via letterpost with no tracking. the current ETA for US deliveries is 5-10 business days, and domestic canadian deliveries 11-25 business days. 

when american buyers leave feedback there is a question that asks was the item delivered by the ETA date. since the ETA information is incorrect the buyer will always put no, not arrived by that particular date, hence why you are getting late shipment defects. 

i a buyer buys 18 items all at once, and says late for all 18 shipments, that counts as 18 individual late shipments, as opposed to one late package, this can be disastrous as three or four of these could concievably shut down your account

if you call ebay they will reverse the late shipment DSR scores because it is a known glitch

unfortunately these guys are making it tough to sell in Canada these days 

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

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@armbo_comics wrote:

for the last month or so there has been an ebay glitch reversing the shipping times for US and Canadian ETA's.

this is a problem when, as mentioned, we send via letterpost with no tracking. the current ETA for US deliveries is 5-10 business days, and domestic canadian deliveries 11-25 business days. 

when american buyers leave feedback there is a question that asks was the item delivered by the ETA date. since the ETA information is incorrect the buyer will always put no, not arrived by that particular date, hence why you are getting late shipment defects. 

i a buyer buys 18 items all at once, and says late for all 18 shipments, that counts as 18 individual late shipments, as opposed to one late package, this can be disastrous as three or four of these could concievably shut down your account

if you call ebay they will reverse the late shipment DSR scores because it is a known glitch

unfortunately these guys are making it tough to sell in Canada these days 

---

Confirming one of my listings ETA according to eBay, Mexico  is 5 to 15 business days with 1 day handling time by Xpresspost.

Checking the CP website same shipping is 19 business days. Definitely giving buyers miss-leading information. Any customs issues could possibly cause additional delays.

-Lotz

[tyler@ebay]

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@reallynicestamps wrote:

Welp.

We could ask eBay.

Or at least tyler@ebay 

Is Late Shipping a Defect?

Is Late Arrival a Defect?

I think we might have been conflating these.

We can get our shipments into the mail within seconds, and still have them arrive late.

And is "late" the opinion of the buyer (who expects next day delivery on Easter Sunday in Florida) or is it based on the last estimated date?

---

Hi @reallynicestamps - happy to weigh in here, there does seem to be some confusion. 

The only things that we would term a 'defect' would be any cases closed without Seller resolution, and any cancellations made for being out of stock. Having a high transaction defect rate can impact your account standing (move you to Below Standard). If your account standing is Below Standard there is an additional Final Value Fee percentage assessed to items while your account is considered Below Standard.

When it comes to Seller Performance in general, there is an additional measure called 'Late Shipment rate' - which looks primarily at if your items are shipped when you say they will be.

There are three ways to get credit for an on-time shipment: An acceptance scan within your stated handling time, a confirmed delivery scan within the estimated delivery date or the buyer stating they received it by the estimated delivery date when they leave feedback.  If any of these conditions are met you get credit, even if the others aren't (for example: if you get an acceptance scan within your handling time you get credit even if it is delivered late or the buyer says they didn't get it in time when leaving feedback). 

Having less than 95% of shipments 'on time' could cause you to lost Top Rated status on .com, but would not cause you to move to 'Below Standard'. It could also add time to your estimated delivery dates presented to buyers. 

The only things we would consider a 'defect' are the above in greenLate shipments are sometimes called 'dings' or 'misses' by CS