Any protection against chargebacks?

[barnfindparts]

Dealing with a fun one here. Had a US buyer exceed the $800 deminius on a $1200 order. Customs picked it up now UPS wants to charge him an additional $800 for tariffs and brokerage fees. 

Naturally he's not too happy and refused delivery. He also opened a INR claim with ebay.  Seems he thinks I'm responsible for US tariffs and duties  and sent a threatning message demanding a refund.  If he does not receive it will leave negative feedback and follow up with a chargeback with his CC.

I know I'm protected under ebay seller protection but not so sure about the chargeback. Am I going to lose any future chargeback?

[flipistics]

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@barnfindparts wrote:

Dealing with a fun one here. Had a US buyer exceed the $800 deminius on a $1200 order. Customs picked it up now UPS wants to charge him an additional $800 for tariffs and brokerage fees. 

Naturally he's not too happy and refused delivery. He also opened a INR claim with ebay.  Seems he thinks I'm responsible for US tariffs and duties  and sent a threatning message demanding a refund.  If he does not receive it will leave negative feedback and follow up with a chargeback with his CC.

I know I'm protected under ebay seller protection but not so sure about the chargeback. Am I going to lose any future chargeback?

---

Theoretically eBay (should) cover you on the item itself. In practice ... let us know! The much bigger issue for you is that UPS will likely charge you the $800 in tariffs and brokerage fees. They apparently have to prepay these and the US government doesn't refund them.  You might be able to save some money if you self-clear the item with the authorities. Not sure if it's too late for that or not.

[intimewithmusic]

Hi @barnfindparts

  Kudos to you for having a visible ebaydotCa forum account! We can all grasp a better idea of the issue if we can see your items. 

  If the order in question occured within the last 90 days it must have been a combined order. The maximum single sale I can see is $686 for the 59-60 Merc Hood Side Emblems. That being the largest recent sale let's take a quick ook at your listing description.

 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 " 1959 1960 Mercury 100 Hood Side Emblems Original Pair NAME PLATES pickup truck

Free Shipping

US & Canada"

International please contact"

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just trying to help. There is nothing in your description about buyer responsibilty for tariffs and border fees for this $686 item. It's not surprising your buyer was caught off guard.  Sometimes I sell large heavy items and the shipping must be arranged outside of eBay and eBay seller protection. Because I can't see the item in question I'm assuming this is the case and you have shipped it via apurchasing your UPS label outside of eBay.  This is what I do as certain freght is cheaper if sent through a UPS account. 

   It's actually a good thing your buyer opened an INR as that covers your efforts.  I suggest, due to the value, that you contact eBay directly via HELP instead of just filing online data. That way you do not refund until you receive the item(s) back in good order. Best o use "CHAT" and get eBay's transcript instead of phone convo. 

  Moving Forward:  The "Description" area in your listings is where you can convey info, not just about the widget, but about details or policies that prevent grief to either the buyer or the seller. For decades eBay has recommended a customs policy. It may differ with what you sell and where it goes. This is mine:

3. INTERNATIONAL BUYERS PLEASE NOTE: Import duties, tarriffs, taxes and charges imposed by destination countries are the responsibility of the buyer and not included in the item price or shipping cost.  Please check with your country's customs office to determine import costs if there are any prior to bidding or buying. If tarrifs or other border charges apply they will be due on delivery. 

       If I hadn't been able to see your listing I would have skipped over your post. 

IT

[marnotom!]

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@intimewithmusic wrote:

There is nothing in your description about buyer responsibilty for tariffs and border fees for this $686 item. It's not surprising your buyer was caught off guard. 

---

There may be nothing in the item description with this information, but if you go into the listing and change the shipping location to the United States, you’ll see that eBay adds a message warning of the possibility of additional charges after payment.

I have a feeling, though, that this buyer has purchased from Canada before but because they weren’t hit with tariff and brokerage charges in the past, that message didn’t apply to them. We see that with Canadian buyers a lot on these boards, at any rate.

[marnotom!]

Editing part of my previous post:

I have a feeling, though, that this buyer has purchased from Canada before but because they weren’t hit with tariff and brokerage charges in the past, they believed that message didn’t apply to them.

[intimewithmusic]

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@marnotom! wrote:

---

---

"There may be nothing in the item description with this information, but if you go into the listing and change the shipping location to the United States, you’ll see that eBay adds a message warning of the possibility of additional charges after payment."
@marnotom! 

I'm aware eBay of the notice IF a buyer goes there they might even see it.  This has been discussed in recent threads and as far back as I can remember. See bottom for examples.  In this case, with a tariff in the amount of $800 having it in the description may have avoided the return. 

Marsha Collier recomended including it in all listing descriptions as far back as 2004 when she wrote "eBAY FOR DUMMIES".  I'm pretty sure she kept it in her many future revisions of "eBAY FOR DUMMIES" 

eBay For Dummies For Sale On eBay 

Do what works for you.  I've never ever had a return or complaint regarding duties/tariffs with it in the description and just look at the mess this transaction turned into.

IT

..........here are some previous discussions by leading veteran sellers..........

melissasminis
Community Member
‎09-04-2014 11:30 AM
It's not mandatory to put this information in your listings, a lot of people who purchase things online already know they may have to pay taxes and duty on items valued over a certain amount, or made outside of the country. People who are newer to buying online, may not be as familiar with the duties and taxes, you could always add the duties and taxes information to your listings for the newer online buyers. It is always the buyers responsibility to pay any duties or taxes due, they are the ones importing the item, the taxes and duty goes to their government, not in the sellers pocket, so why would a seller have to pay. The buyer should not purchase items from outside of the country if they're not prepared to pay these fees.

-------------------------------------

pjcdn2005
Community Member
‎09-05-2014 11:21 PM
Again it is MANDATORY to make the mention in your listings.
A couple of years ago, ebay said it was no longer required because they put in a similar statement right in the shipping area. There was a post on the board not long ago saying that the requirement was still written in the help pages but I'm still sure that is is not required.
With that being said, I still have the statement in my listings just to double the chances of a buyer seeing the information.
------------------------------------
femmefan1946
In response to pierrelebel
‎09-02-2014 01:46 PM
I have a standard Terms of Sale that I use on all my IDs. It includes the eBay boilerplate :
Import duties, taxes and charges are not included in the item price or shipping charges. These charges are the buyer's responsibility. Please check with your country's customs office to determine what these additional costs will be prior to bidding
I can see no reason to remove it. Necessary or not

[sapphyres-designer-jewellery]

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@barnfindparts wrote:

Dealing with a fun one here. Had a US buyer exceed the $800 deminius on a $1200 order. Customs picked it up now UPS wants to charge him an additional $800 for tariffs and brokerage fees. 

Naturally he's not too happy and refused delivery. He also opened a INR claim with ebay.  Seems he thinks I'm responsible for US tariffs and duties  and sent a threatning message demanding a refund.  If he does not receive it will leave negative feedback and follow up with a chargeback with his CC.

I know I'm protected under ebay seller protection but not so sure about the chargeback. Am I going to lose any future chargeback?

---

If he refuses it, you're protected from an INR. I can't say about a chargeback.

That might not be your biggest problem, if he refuses it the parcel is coming back to you (so you will have the package back if you refund him), but UPS paid the tariff to get the package into the US and they will charge the tariff back to you if the buyer refuses to pay.

C.

[intimewithmusic]

"If he refuses it, you're protected from an INR. I can't say about a chargeback."

Hi @sapphyres-designer-jewellery 

It's my understanding from the original post the shipment has allready been refused. Can you please clarify that the carrier pays the tariffs before the package gets to the customer?  I thought border fees were paid on receipt. 

If in fact UPS [correction: If UPS PAID the $800 tariff] and the seller reimburses UPS can a seller claim a refund from US Customs? If so how long might that take? I can't imagine the process is fast.

Thank you

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

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@intimewithmusic wrote:

---

@marnotom! wrote:

---

---

"There may be nothing in the item description with this information, but if you go into the listing and change the shipping location to the United States, you’ll see that eBay adds a message warning of the possibility of additional charges after payment."
@marnotom! 

I'm aware eBay of the notice IF a buyer goes there they might even see it.  This has been discussed in recent threads and as far back as I can remember. See bottom for examples.  In this case, with a tariff in the amount of $800 having it in the description may have avoided the return. 

Marsha Collier recomended including it in all listing descriptions as far back as 2004 when she wrote "eBAY FOR DUMMIES".  I'm pretty sure she kept it in her many future revisions of "eBAY FOR DUMMIES" 

eBay For Dummies For Sale On eBay 

Do what works for you.  I've never ever had a return or complaint regarding duties/tariffs with it in the description and just look at the mess this transaction turned into.

IT

..........here are some previous discussions by leading veteran sellers..........

melissasminis
Community Member
‎09-04-2014 11:30 AM
It's not mandatory to put this information in your listings, a lot of people who purchase things online already know they may have to pay taxes and duty on items valued over a certain amount, or made outside of the country. People who are newer to buying online, may not be as familiar with the duties and taxes, you could always add the duties and taxes information to your listings for the newer online buyers. It is always the buyers responsibility to pay any duties or taxes due, they are the ones importing the item, the taxes and duty goes to their government, not in the sellers pocket, so why would a seller have to pay. The buyer should not purchase items from outside of the country if they're not prepared to pay these fees.

-------------------------------------

pjcdn2005
Community Member
‎09-05-2014 11:21 PM
Again it is MANDATORY to make the mention in your listings.
A couple of years ago, ebay said it was no longer required because they put in a similar statement right in the shipping area. There was a post on the board not long ago saying that the requirement was still written in the help pages but I'm still sure that is is not required.
With that being said, I still have the statement in my listings just to double the chances of a buyer seeing the information.
------------------------------------
femmefan1946
In response to pierrelebel
‎09-02-2014 01:46 PM
I have a standard Terms of Sale that I use on all my IDs. It includes the eBay boilerplate :
Import duties, taxes and charges are not included in the item price or shipping charges. These charges are the buyer's responsibility. Please check with your country's customs office to determine what these additional costs will be prior to bidding
I can see no reason to remove it. Necessary or not

---

As a side what is there now or wasn't there (on ebay listing pages) has changed multiple multiple times in the past 10 years. Both for locations and wording.  Also has changed the same number of infinite times depending on the site you happen to be using at any given time. For those reasons the chances a buyer read are a lottery.

Disclaimer. That info is on the international shipping help page but the chance a buyer will do that deep a dive are also very slim.

ca: https://www.ebay.ca/help/buying/postage-delivery/changing-delivery-address-method/international-purc...

https://www.ebay.com/help/buying/postage-delivery/changing-delivery-address-method/international-pur...

If you open in 2 windows you will see the info does vary. Only thing I changed was ca to com. As noted in other discussions ebay does not date help pages.

[cottagewoman]

As the tariffs on CN originated items were defined as part of the emergencies act (IEEA) created by djt, there are NO drawbacks (refunds) on them. And yes UPS pays the tariff to clear customs at the border. They have to or the package sits at CBP. NOBODY SHOULD SEND CHINESE GOODS DDU VIA UPS.

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

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@cottagewoman wrote:
As the tariffs on CN originated items were defined as part of the emergencies act (IEEA) created by djt, there are NO drawbacks (refunds) on them. And yes UPS pays the tariff to clear customs at the border. They have to or the package sits at CBP. NOBODY SHOULD SEND CHINESE GOODS DDU VIA UPS.

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@barnfindparts 

@sapphyres-designer-jewellery 

devon@ebay  Are you able to clarify if sellers have ANY protections from buyers refusing shipments due to new tariffs if they do a chargeback? It seems to be a bit of a workaround from buyers perspective if this is a potential get out of jail card for verified purchases. 

[sapphyres-designer-jewellery]

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@intimewithmusic wrote:

"If he refuses it, you're protected from an INR. I can't say about a chargeback."

Hi @sapphyres-designer-jewellery 

It's my understanding from the original post the shipment has allready been refused. Can you please clarify that the carrier pays the tariffs before the package gets to the customer?  I thought border fees were paid on receipt. 

If in fact UPS [correction: If UPS PAID the $800 tariff] and the seller reimburses UPS can a seller claim a refund from US Customs? If so how long might that take? I can't imagine the process is fast.

Thank you

---

It's been posted by a couple of people that when the buyer refused to pay tariffs, the seller was charged with return postage and the tariffs the buyer didn't pay. That's been mentioned many times, including by people who have been billed with their buyer's tariffs because the buyer refused the package.

C.

[intimewithmusic]

Thanks @lotzofuniquegoodies  for your input.

   This situation is why I much prefer to be able to view both the OP poster's listings and the response posters' listings for relevance. In this case the OP's listings are available and it's likely they don't use templates. 

   The sellers who say "Don't bother including shipping info/suggestions probably don't use templates for their listings. It's so so easy... If I could see their listings I might understand but many appear as "Ghosts". No one knows what they sell or how they list.  If their listing are concealed you have no way of determining the relevance of their point of view.

  Because I try to sell widgets with similarities I could not do this without eBay templates.  On top of that if you sell expensive high value items that tend to be heavy like the OP templates can prevent you from forgetting to include important instructions like

   "Your shipping address MUST BE THE SAME as the one on your eBay account. It must be on the UPS Standard Delivery route within Canada or the USA lower 48 contiguous states only.  This excludes Puerto Rico, the Bahamas, Alaska, Hawaii etc. The delivery address must be UPS Standard verifiable.  Your signature will be required on delivery." 

   Will this scare off some buyers?  Yes, probably,  I hope so. This template only applies to high value heavy items.  Honest dependable buyers are usually pros too who appreciate you acting and shipping like a pro. Buyer information like this is NOT available anywhere in eBay's checkout and it has saved my derriere on more than one occasion. On those occasions eBay backed me up. 

   When I didn't have a store I used templates because you can give buyers the impression it is a store. Of course there was no mobile app then.  You can still jazz up a listing by including something to indicate you know your stuff even without a store. Buyers are more likely to read the description than wade thru a storefront "About" section or flick thru that new annoying  sliding store carousel eBay just introduced. 

  As you point out ebay changes things but your listings can still have continuity and the repeat buyers love that! I understand why sellers with a billion low value one offs feel templates slow them down but they aren't the ones who sell items that incur $800 tariffs.

  Do what works for you!

[barnfindparts]

In my experience I'm very minimal in my listings descriptions for a couple reasons. One it its quick and easy. Two the less information included the less scammers can use against you ie. Oh you said this and it was this type of situation. Generally people buying automotive parts know what they're looking for they do not need a lot of garble to sift through, let the pictures speak for themselves. Might not work for all niches though.

I'm working out a creative solution with the buyer where I agreed to buy an expensive item from him to cover his tariff costs so he can get his items (multiple orders). In the long run it will work out for both of us.

Be warned this is just another unique landmine Canadian sellers can step on as if there weren't enough already lol. I could have really got burned badly on this one.

[ypdc_dennis]

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@intimewithmusic wrote:
... templates can prevent you from forgetting to include important instructions like

   "Your shipping address MUST BE THE SAME as the one on your eBay account. It must be on the UPS Standard Delivery route within Canada or the USA lower 48 contiguous states only.  This excludes Puerto Rico, the Bahamas, Alaska, Hawaii etc. The delivery address must be UPS Standard verifiable.  Your signature will be required on delivery." 

   Will this scare off some buyers?  Yes, probably,  I hope so. This template only applies to high value heavy items.  ...

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Off topic question: why does the template mention the Bahamas? It's not part of the USA or Canada.

[intimewithmusic]

You're right. The "whether to describe or not to describe or how much to describe" is definately an art form that's different for every category. Depending on the niche often less is more. 

With respect to electronics. Some of us choose to sell everything "For Parts" even though items are in working condition.  You never know if an obsolete input or output may be defective or if a belt is about to crack. I sold a mint fully tested shortwave radio to a guy who lived in an area with zero reception. He contacted me and said it was broken so I sent him a label. Upon return it was fine. He just didn't know his location was limited. 

With respect to clothing the description is everything particularily my vintage clothing. Every little defect must be clearly noted.  Those vintage marked sizes are totally different than contemporary clothing sizes. You are absolutely right. It's all about the niche.

I'm very glad to hear you're making lemonade out a tough situation. Thanks for posting your tarrif issue. It helps the rest of us who may be shipping heavier higher value items across the border. 

Cheers,

IT