Buyer claims no item received, filed claim, now item not received again.....

[aarcdecals]

Good day all,

I have a weird one for you..

A buyer bought an item from me,  I sent the item out as promised by the listing....

The buyer claims he did not get the item, and files a case...Fine no problem...

So after discussions, I sent out another item, to resolve the issue...posted pictures on the site

that clearly shows addresses, and post mark...

So now the buyer states he did not get the second item...

I escalated the claim for eBay to look at,..

So.. because i live in Canada, we do not get tracking numbers from the post office, and the buyer did not buy a tracking number.

So how do I handle this one?..  Any help would be great.

J

[rose-dee]

Can you please say what the item is, on what date you sent the first item, on what date you sent the second item, by what type of shipping (for each), and to where (which country)?  Also, it might be helpful to know the value of the item.

These details might help others to be able to respond to your problem.

[bb_cool_stuff]

Something is amiss there.

While an item may go missing in transit, the chances of a second item going missing to the same buyer are zero.

Rose makes a good point though, What country did you ship the item to ?

Some countries postal systems are worse than others.

[aarcdecals]

Good point,..

First item bought on Dec 28 2013  Cut and shipped on Dec 29 2013

Member filed a case on Jan 24 2014  

A few messages back and forth, New item cut and shipped out on Jan 25 2014  pictures were 

taken to prove shipping and postage.

Feb 9 2014 member contacted me via resolution message saying his decals did not make it...this is the second set now not to make it.  I informed the member that i was not shipping out any more decals until address was verified, and ebay delt with it.

I escalated the claim to eBay, so that they may look at.

item number 251408665048  value per item sold  9.99 plus 2.50 shipping.

J

[spinorfields]

Without racking you will lose the case and the buyer will be refunded. Definitely block them from further purchases and report this to eBay in case the buyer makes a habit of it.

[reallynicestamps]

So.. because i live in Canada, we do not get tracking numbers from the post office, and the buyer did not buy a tracking number.

Wrong

and

Wrong

Some (but not all) Canada Post services include either Delivery Confirmation or tracking.

If a service does not offer tracking, no one can add it.

If Canada Post will not track parcels to a specific country, it's a good indication that CP does not trust the postal system there. Believe them and do not ship.

In any case, tracking protects the seller not the buyer.

This is a $10 item? How much did you pay for it? Add in the cost of shipping and all your eBay/Paypal fees? Now add in all the time you have been stressing over this at 17 cents a minute?

It's ten bucks. Two lattes at Starbucks and not enough over to buy a biscotti. Or two Happy Meals, your choice.

Hindsight is 20-20, but when he complained about non-delivery, your reaction should have been an apology (even with gritted teeth) a request to wait a few more days (but not more than 40 from purchase, makes you look scammy), and then a refund.

End of.

Blocked bidder list for customer. And stop communicating.

[aarcdecals]

I guess for me its not about the money, its the principal.  

I did end up loosing the case, as eBay said there was no tracking number, even though it was clearly

post marked. Which means nothing......

I am going to block them from buying from me, and will use your suggestion, simply refund the money and be done with it.

J

[ricarmic]

Unfortunately no-one will ever know what really happened, usually we sellers are convinced that the buyer is trying to rip us off, conversely usually the buyer is convinced that we the sellers are trying to rip them off..... and amongst all that it is entirely possible it did legitimately get lost en-route.

What I do is: offer a full refund, and block them. If they ask to send again, I decline and advise that my policy, based on past experience is to refund and not resend because usually once something doesn't arrive, it won't arrive subsequently. It is probably something happening en-route that is causing the package to be lost between my place and theirs. (This is all in police professional notes and I usually wait to block for a bit or until after they leave feedback because blocking too soon can cause negatives bad DSRs - I know this from personal experience too)

Once upon a time, with something that had very low margins, I sent something 2 times to the same address in Ontario which never arrived. After that I put expedited on the 3rd attempt (costing $8 for a $15 item) to ensure it got there. It did, and the buyer actually did buy more stuff subsequently. He continued to pay for expedited for a time then after that we went back to normal "free" shipping. I suspect someone close to him was pilfering, but one never knows....yet another unanswered question.

Note that if this happens with a regular/repeat customer I would of course just resend the refund and block policy is only for new customers.

[rose-dee]

---

@aarcdecals wrote:

I guess for me its not about the money, its the principal.  

I did end up loosing the case, as eBay said there was no tracking number, even though it was clearly

post marked. Which means nothing......

I am going to block them from buying from me, and will use your suggestion, simply refund the money and be done with it.

---

I completely agree with 'ricarmic's' advice, and it's exactly what I would have said.  I would also agree that if it's a matter of a repeat customer who you know to be reliable, I'd make an exception to the "refund-and-block" procedure, and send another item, perhaps even with tracking if the value of the item warranted it.

I've seen some sellers on these boards reporting problems with shipping to Israel -- apparently extremely long delivery times are not uncommon.  This may have to do with heightened Israeli security, or just a very slow postal system, I really don't know.  However, I doubt this problem is your buyer's fault.  I suspect he'll end up getting both items weeks from now.

My additional advice would be to exclude Israel from your "ship-to" list unless you're selling items of a value worth sending with a tracked service to protect yourself.  Otherwise, really, for a $10 item, it isn't worth the trouble.  You may be able to include Israel again at a later date if reports are that delivery time has improved.  While you're at it, you might want to include other "problematic" countries in your exclusion list -- Russia and many South American countries come to mind. 

[rose-dee]

By the way, if you think you have a "nice" buyer who really isn't trying to pull one over on you, after refunding, you could ask that the buyer return the refund (i.e. permit you to re-invoice -- via Paypal -- for the item) if it does eventually show up.  Most honest buyers will let a seller know.

This may only work if you haven't blocked the buyer, as I seem to recall that blocking a particular ID also blocks that person's ability to message you.  You might just want to decide on a case-by-case basis, and hold off blocking someone who seems sincere about non-receipt. 

[pjcdn2005]

I seem to recall that blocking a particular ID also blocks that person's ability to message you.

That's only true if under buyer requirements you have checked off:

Don't allow blocked buyers to contact me. (Buyer won't see the "Contact Seller" button on your Q&A page.) Note: Buyers can still contact you about existing transactions, unless you add them to your blocked list.

Other sellers have said that if you are in a current transaction the blocked buyer can still contact you but the statement above seems to disagree with that.

[ricarmic]

This is a good suggestion, I regularly get folks repaying me, I send something along like this after I refund (feel free to use it or part of it if it works for you): "Hi BUYERNAME! Your stamps were mailed as promised on Wednesday December 31. They do not have a tracking number, to have had one would have added an extra $15 to the shipping cost!. I am refunding your money out of my own funds now. If the stamps do eventually arrive, just let me know so I can send another invoice so you can pay for them again (small lots like this are self insured so I am out 100% if they do not show up). It is very rare for packages to never arrive, over 99% of the time they just take longer than one would expect to get there. Sorry for the frustrations around this lot, hopefully it will still show up. Have a great day!"

[denki2012]

Hi, I state Small Packet International-Air without track# in policy very clearly, explain again and again. Sometimes buyer received them little late, but Canada Post never lose parcels up to till now.

1. In list, state " we are not responsible for fail delivery"

2. All receipt of shipping stamped by Post office.

3. All parcels without track # should be taken a photos

I met some customers claim they didn't receive item, sent photos and receipt with Post office stamps. They didn't say it again. It is useful in claim case. For some countries, we refuse to ship items, give up. In eBay or Paypal, we are not protected by Policy. If buyers insist on claim, we have to cover all lost. It is unfair shipping service. Most of buyers are kind and honest, but some of them are not honest for a little money. It is truth.  Good luck!

Thank you.

[denki2012]

Yes, you're totally right.

[pjcdn2005]

---

@denki2012 wrote:

Hi, I state Small Packet International-Air without track# in policy very clearly, explain again and again. Sometimes buyer received them little late, but Canada Post never lose parcels up to till now.

1. In list, state " we are not responsible for fail delivery"

2. All receipt of shipping stamped by Post office.

3. All parcels without track # should be taken a photos

I met some customers claim they didn't receive item, sent photos and receipt with Post office stamps. They didn't say it again. It is useful in claim case. For some countries, we refuse to ship items, give up. In eBay or Paypal, we are not protected by Policy. If buyers insist on claim, we have to cover all lost. It is unfair shipping service. Most of buyers are kind and honest, but some of them are not honest for a little money. It is truth.  Good luck!

Thank you.

---

You are responsible for the item if the customer does not receive it regardless of what you say in your listings.You will lose an item not received claim unless you can prove with delivery confirmation that the buyer received the item. Showing a receipt that you shipped it may make the customer feel better but it would not help in a claim as it shows the item was shipped but not that it was delivered.

A couple of suggestions......The shipping information in your listings is very confusing. There is no reason to give an approximate shipping cost in the body of the listing when there is already an actual shipping rate in the shipping section...it just adds a lot of unnecessary information.

I also suggest that you take out that information for small packet air not having tracking as it isn't a good idea to advertise that you might send an item without tracking. Also, you have that written in listings that don't use small packet which makes it more confusing.

Some of your listings do not have a shipping price for international destinations. That is probably because you only have Tracked Packet set up for those listings and not all countries have that service.

[rose-dee]

---

@denki2012 wrote:

Hi, I state Small Packet International-Air without track# in policy very clearly, explain again and again. Sometimes buyer received them little late, but Canada Post never lose parcels up to till now.

1. In list, state " we are not responsible for fail delivery"

---

It's fine to mention in a listing that you ship without tracking (that's up to the individual seller to decide), but not a good idea to say "We are not responsible for failed delivery". 

In fact, all sellers are responsible to make sure that purchased items get into buyers' hands.  That's eBay policy (and Paypal's too).  Saying you're not responsible in a listing won't protect you against claims for non-receipt or mean anything to eBay in terms of resolving such claims.  The only thing that will (usually) protect a seller is tracked shipping. 

Getting the Post Office to stamp a non-tracked shipping receipt and taking a photo of the parcel will show you've shipped an item, but it doesn't prove receipt by the buyer.  It may help to "scare off" some opportunistic but inexperienced scammers, but not the experienced ones.  Nor will it help if delivery is slow and the buyer makes a legitimate claim for non-receipt.  

The measures you mention (photographing a parcel and getting a P.O. receipt) are somewhat illusory as insurance against INR claims.  Really all a seller can do is decide how much risk he/she is willing to assume, and be prepared to refund when necessary.  Excluding "problematic" countries from a seller's ship-to list can help, i.e. knowing which postal systems are notoriously slow or subject to theft and/or corruption. 

[denki2012]

I am sure you met bad guys. Recently we get 3 cases which buyers didn't receive item. eBay cannot help sellers any more. Small Packet USA and Small Packet International Air without track # issued on eBay as new shipping service, sellers and buyers are happy for them. As you sell more, problem comes more. Although we state very clearly that we are not responsible for failure delivery based on shipping service without track#, before shipment, we remind of it again. Some buyers still claimed they didn't receive items. All parcels were taken photos and got stamp in Post office, but it is not useful. eBay judged we had to refund all to buyers including shipping cost. It means, everyone could claim they don't receive items, and get free items, we have to pay shipping cost to send free items to some guys' hands. Yesterday, we got decision of eBay for one case which due to not receiving, all evidences such as shipping label from Paypal which stamped by local Post office, photos of parcel taken in Post office is not helpful to seller. Some buyer wrote "I didn't receive item, if you didn't refund in 24hr, I will give negative feedback". No way, we had to refund all and said thank you. As everyone knows, negative feedback is impossible to removed by eBay. Sometimes, sellers be regarded as fools.

For your case, it is regular letter mail without track#. you have to refund to him, sure. If you make shipment for thousand times, result is the same. eBay makes decision based on track#, no track#, no chance. We met some experienced buyer, his was lazy to leave any message in eBay, opened case directly and claimed item not received. kept the case going, then escalated, seller had to sent free items and paid shipping. That's it.

I feel sorry about your experience. Please use shipping service with track#, you have more chance to win.

Thank you.

[elle-tuxedo-cat]

Is there any negative repercussions to having a unreceived item case opened against a seller that is escalated to eBay resolving?

Is it easier just to refund? There was a bar code with this package but it only shows that the post office received it, not delivery.

Thanks!

[recped]

Is there any negative repercussions to having a unreceived item case opened against a seller that is escalated to eBay resolving?

Yes! You will get a "super" defect for "unresolved by seller", it only takes a few of these and you are toast on eBay as a seller.

On the other hand if you have tracking that shows delivery you will win such a case and there will be no defect.

For both of the above it doesn't matter who escalates, all that matters is the result (ie: who wins and who loses)

[reallynicestamps]

There was a bar code with this package but it only shows that the post office received it, not delivery.

What post office?

Your own? That just means it is in the system.

Remember most of what we call 'tracking' is really Confirmation of Delivery, which means that we will see acceptance by the PO and delivery to the buyer and probably nothing in between.

How long has the shipment been in transit?

I allow about 20 days for anywhere in North America, and usually am pleasantly surprised.

If the PO has received it, on Monday call Canada Post customer service and ask about the whereabouts of the shipment. They may be able to goose things along.

Let the Dispute and the customer know you have done this.

Also make sure both the Dispute and the customer know that bar code.

(Just knowing there is a bar code may persuade scammers to drop the Dispute, although this does not affect honestly upset and worried customers.)

If the barcode is showing that the shipment is in or near the customer's address, say so in the Dispute and ask for a grace period until Monday or Tuesday.

USPS is amazingly fast, from what I have read. I see customers getting upset because purchases have not arrived within two business days, and members who are sellers agreeing with them that this is unacceptable.

Many US buyers are also geographically -challenged and do not realize that Canada is a different country.