Buyer in S. America, shipped to US address. messages from two different people.

[retrobytz]

I recently sold an item to a buyer in South America but the shipping address was in the USA. I heard from the buyer that something was wrong with the item and responded. Now I am hearing from a different person saying they are the buyer and wanting a refund.

The buyer had good English but it was obviously a second language. The person making demands is saying they are the buyer but has perfect English.

If the item was sent to someone other than the buyer and they are telling the buyer the item is defective but the buyer has not ever seen or touched the item can they claim ?

The tracking says the item has not arrived yet and I'm suspicious of this person who could have lied or damaged the item and then told the buyer it was sent that way.

What do I do?

[femmefan1946]

Your responsibility for delivery ends when your tracking shows delivery to the US address (provided that is the address on the PP account).

I would respond to the claimant saying that tracking shows that the item has not yet been delivered, and that he may have the wrong seller.

Do not supply any information about the tracking. That is between you and your actual buyer.

Now I am hearing from a different person saying they are the buyer and wanting a refund.

If this person can show that he is the buyer and that the item has been delivered (to the US address) tell him to return it for a full refund.

If he demands a partial refund, tell him to return it for a full refund.

Basically, if there is a problem with an item, it is either good enough to keep and to pay for, or the buyer should return for a full refund.

[recped]

"something was wrong"

Have they told you what was wrong?

"The person making demands"

What are they "demanding"?

Not sure where you sent it or which service you used, the fact that tracking is not showing delivery is probably meaningless. You might get more detail by tracking it at the destination country.

In any event, the buyer seems to have indicated they have received it regardless what the tracking at Canada Post might show (and this is not at all unusual).

[hlmacdon]

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@femmefan1946 wrote:

Your responsibility for delivery ends when your tracking shows delivery to the US address (provided that is the address on the PP account). 

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If the buyer files a SNAD claim that is not necessarily the case. These situations can get tricky unless it is more of a straightforward INR claim with proof of delivery to the forwarding party.

[reallynicestamps]

You are right of course. It is only Delivery that is proven by tracking.

And here's a good question, if the buyer is required to return for refund, and the package was not sent directly to the buyer (quite normal when there has been a freight forwarder involved) is the seller required to pay return postage from the freight forwarder (USA in this cse)  or from the buyer (South America in this case.)

At any rate, unless the demands are coming from the same person and email address as the buyer, the question is moot.

[lucitabby]

The tracking says the item has not arrived yet

This is not always up to date.

I have had 2 items recently that were sent Canada Post Expedited to the US.  When I check on ebay and the CP website, tracking shows it sitting in customs - when I check on the USPS website, there is detailed info and shows the parcels delivered.

[retroman_studios]

I thought eBay allowed the use of freight forwarders but the one caveat is that buyers can't open certain types of cases as your responsibility as a seller ends once the item reaches a shipping forwarder.

In principle its like GSP, once a package makes it to PBI, the seller is off the hook more or less. In PBI case, if PBI messed up they would foot the cost of that mistake.

A quick Google search of the address will tell you if it is a shipping forwarder unless they sent it to a relative etc.

That's why I block buyers whose Primary address is in countries I don't ship to. But even then maybe they can get around that.

[pjcdn2005]

The ebay MBG does state that it does not cover items forwarded from the original address that it was sent to.  So if the seller had evidence that the item was forwarded after it was delivered to the original address, the buyer would not be covered if they filed an item not as described. That's how it is supposed to work and I know that it has worked like that in at least some cases.

[hlmacdon]

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

The ebay MBG does state that it does not cover items forwarded from the original address that it was sent to.  So if the seller had evidence that the item was forwarded after it was delivered to the original address, the buyer would not be covered if they filed an item not as described. That's how it is supposed to work and I know that it has worked like that in at least some cases.

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Not the case for paypal or any merchant account provider unfortunately, in the case of an SNAD type scenario. All of the ebay people I have spoken to have stated that they'll entertain claims that are unrelated to an INR, which is fairly clear cut for these scenarios when you have proof of delivery to the forwarder. This is something that comes up fairly often in the niche I sell in.

[pjcdn2005]

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@hlmacdon wrote:

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

The ebay MBG does state that it does not cover items forwarded from the original address that it was sent to.  So if the seller had evidence that the item was forwarded after it was delivered to the original address, the buyer would not be covered if they filed an item not as described. That's how it is supposed to work and I know that it has worked like that in at least some cases.

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Not the case for paypal or any merchant account provider unfortunately, in the case of an SNAD type scenario. All of the ebay people I have spoken to have stated that they'll entertain claims that are unrelated to an INR, which is fairly clear cut for these scenarios when you have proof of delivery to the forwarder. This is something that comes up fairly often in the niche I sell in.

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I realize paypal does not have the same rules. eBay may 'entertain' a nad claim in this situation but if I were in that situation I would certainly point out where in the mbg that states that the buyer is not covered for a nad when their item was forwarded. I've read quite a few times about such claims being denied.

Not covered

Buyer's remorse or any reason other than not receiving an item or receiving an item that isn't as described in the listing (see the seller's return policy for return options). Items damaged during pick-up or shipping or not delivered when the buyer arranges pick-up or shipping of the item (for instance, the buyer arranges freight). Duplicate claims through other resolution methods. Items shipped to another address after original delivery. http://pages.ebay.ca/help/policies/money-back-guarantee.html

[hlmacdon]

While I've seen that as well, I've had to deal with the situation on several occasions with ebay. The position relayed by the reps I spoke to is that the seller is responsible for the item matching what was sold as otherwise it creates a loophole a seller can abuse. Others within my niche have had the same experience.

[prarie_nerd]

All you are responsible for it getting the item to the address they paid with. If it gets lost or damaged after that it's not your problem. BUT I've had buyers pay and have items sent to shipping centers and PayPal has requested a signature upon delivery for no known reason.
Just out of curiosity is the buyer in Brazil?

[hlmacdon]

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@prarie_nerd wrote:
All you are responsible for it getting the item to the address they paid with. If it gets lost or damaged after that it's not your problem. BUT I've had buyers pay and have items sent to shipping centers and PayPal has requested a signature upon delivery for no known reason.
Just out of curiosity is the buyer in Brazil?

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You are responsible for getting the item to the address, and the item matching your listing. If it is lost in transit after the forwarding center/company/etc moves it on, you aren't responsible for that. If it arrives damaged/NAD/etc you may be on the hook for that depending on how ebay (and ultimately paypal) decides. They will very likely err on the side of caution and side with the buyer as the seller can't prove when the damage took place.

Signature requirements are entirely based on dollar values outlined in the paypal user agreement. If it doesn't exceed the dollar value where signature confirmation kicks in all you need is online verifiable proof of delivery to the original payment address. Paypal policies supersede those of ebay.

[pjcdn2005]

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@hlmacdon wrote:

While I've seen that as well, I've had to deal with the situation on several occasions with ebay. The position relayed by the reps I spoke to is that the seller is responsible for the item matching what was sold as otherwise it creates a loophole a seller can abuse. Others within my niche have had the same experience.

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If they were worried about a loophole, why would the statement that forwarded packages are not covered be in the MBG at all? I realize that ebay isn't always consistent but usually when a rule is as specific as this one, it is possible to find a rep that will follow that rule and close the case in the seller's favour.  You've fought and lose a nad case when a reshipper was used? I'm curious what the circumstances were.

Obviously if a buyer was not covered on ebay they could then go make the claim on paypal but then the buyer would be responsible for the return shipping cost.