eBay

enchantedcardsandcollectibles · ‎02-02-2024

Hey there!

I'd love some feedback from other sellers.

I am a new seller mainly selling trading cards. I recently shipped an order of 2 cards valued at $36 each. They were shipped together, tracked. I even took the extra step of paying for tracked shipping (customer only paid for lettermail) because I wanted to be extra careful since this was my first order of such a high value.

The day after the client recieved the package, he messages me to say there no cards in the bubble mailer.

I asked him to check between the 2 pieces of cardboard (which I wrap the cards in). He didn't reply.

Today, I get a return request. I messaged the buyer again to ask if the package appears tampered with. He's not being very clear in his response and all he says is that there is a piece of cardboard in the bubble mailer. I am trying to see if he looked between the 2 pieces of cardboard and he will not answer the question.

All he told me is that eBay told him that if I (the seller) want to avoid a "bad mark" on my seller account, I should just refund him without asking him to send anything back.

What am I supposed to do here? What are potential consequences of any option I chose?

I'm new at this and obviously I don't want to ruin my ebay reputation before I even get started but I also don't want to lose money unnecesarily.

Any advice would be so very much appreciated.

marnotom! · ‎02-02-2024

If the envelope was damaged in transit, Canada Post should have put it in a plastic baggie to protect the envelope's contents and put on some sort of note stating that the item was handled in damaged condition.

Was the item sent to a house? An apartment? A crackhouse? I suppose there's the possibility that it could have been interferred with after the item was dropped off but before your buyer received it; it depends on where the envelope was left.

Anyway, to (sort of) answer your question, your choices are indeed extremely limited if you don't want a "defect" on your account. Has the buyer opened a return request? (Buyers can't request refunds, just returns.) If you refuse the request and the buyer then proceeds to file a case through eBay's Money Back Guarantee program, you're in for a "defect" if you don't work with the buyer and eBay on this. Unfortunately, there's really no way for the seller to prevail in a situation like this. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

But wait until the buyer makes a move. Don't just hand back their money willy-nilly.

pjcdn2005 · ‎02-02-2024

What was the reason given for the return on the request? If it was something like item, not as described, missing items, etc. there are not a lot of options. There will be not be an option to refuse the return so you can either accept the return, provide a return label and then refund once the 'empty package' has been returned. You will get your fees back from eBay. Or, you can refund without requiring a return.

If you don't do either one of those, the buyer can ask ebay to step in and they will refund from your funds, not refund your fees and give you an unresolved claim defect. That isn't a good thing.

EBay generally thinks of most returns as a he said / she said type of thing and they assume the buyer is telling the truth. Your buyer does sound sketchy but in most cases including yours, there is no real way to prove what the buyer received. Fortunately, most people are honest.

flipistics · ‎02-03-2024

They may have bailed you out.

"All he told me is that eBay told him that if I (the seller) want to avoid a "bad mark" on my seller account, I should just refund him without asking him to send anything back."

This sounds a lot like extortion, which is specifically prohibited. eBay should be able to look at any communications they had with him and see if they actually told him that or not, but I'm almost positive they wouldn't as it isn't true. Contact the reps at eBay for Business on Facebook who actually work for eBay. Don't go through the phone reps.

Make sure you specifically point out what the buyer told you, specifically mention that you believe this is a clear indication of extortion, and let them know that the buyer also refuses to answer any questions as to whether the packaging was damaged or if there were any signs of tampering (as you would be able to file a claim if there was). It's likely this wouldn't be their first time trying something like this, and a rep would be able to see if they had an unusually high return rate, INR rate, or other red flags. You probably have a 50-50 chance.

BTW, what reason for the return did they use?

ilikehockeyjerseys · ‎02-03-2024

One of three things happened:

1 - You forgot to put the cards in.

2 - Someone stole the cards in transit.

3 - The buyer is committing fraud.

You can rule out #1 pretty easily, because you would still have the cards in or around where you pack your mail.

Number two is possible, but incredibly unlikely. If it was stolen in transit, it is more likely that the package wouldn't have shown up at all. The odds that the package was damaged in transit are a bit higher, but it would have come repackaged by Canada Post or with some sort of note. Or the buyer would have at least noted this.

Assuming you want to put an hour into this, here is what you do.
1 - https://twitter.com/askebay sign up for a throwaway account on Twitter (or use your own) and direct message that account.

2 - Explain that a buyer is falsely claiming that an item you sent was empty. They are avoiding answering your questions when you try to get more info so that you can try to resolve it with Canada Post. They also are pressuring you to refund by claiming that is your only course of action. (Which isn't true, you also could provide a return label).

3 - Ask them for assistance with reporting the buyer for making false claims. Depending on the buyer, they might also report the buyer to the security team.

4 - At that point, wait a day and see if the buyer's account gets nerfed. If they are a repeat offender, their account might get deleted. This is pretty rare but does sometimes happen. If their account is deleted, the case will time out.

Otherwise, you have to provide a return shipping label or a refund to resolve the case. My suggestion would be to help the buyer with their problem. Print a return label. Ask them to use the label to return all the packaging as it was when they received it.

Let them know that you are sorry to hear that their mail was tampered with and you're more than happy to issue a refund, but you will need the packaging back for the claims investigation with Canada Post. Let them know that while their refund will be issued as soon as the packaging is returned, Canada Post may contact them related to the claim. Invite them to provide you with any additional information that might be useful for the claim.

https://www.canadapost-postescanada.ca/cpc/en/support/kb/claims/damaged-packages.page

You may want to contact Canada Post directly to ask them about how to proceed with a claim. The buyer didn't technically say it was tampered with. They did say it was empty, and you did not send an empty package. So while they aren't directly claiming it was opened, the only route from A to B would be for it to be tampered with.

After you do this, the buyer either won't send anything back because someone committing fraud for $35 doesn't want you to involve Canada Post's insurance department in their lie. Or, if it was actually empty, they will be annoyed at the overall situation, they will probably understand and return it. If it is a scammer, they might double down on you with rants or threats about how they just want a refund.

People are too quick to assume that every problem with an order is a scam, but a situation like this sounds reasonably suspicious. Especially since they won't be clear about whether it looked tampered with, and they are using high pressure tactics about the "black mark" on your account.

Feedback doesn't matter that much, but if they refuse to return the item and the return times out, eBay will remove any negative feedback that they leave you because the buyer did not complete their end of the return process.

reallynicestamps · ‎02-03-2024

Tellhim to open an eBay claim.

Don't tell him how, he's a grownup.

If he won't, don't refund.

If he does,refund and block.

Just as your profits are taxable, your losses are deductible.

All he told me is that eBay told him that if I (the seller) want to avoid a "bad mark" on my seller account, I should just refund him without asking him to send anything back.

Uh huh

And he sent that in a Message.

Mwah hah hah hah hah.

I agree that sounds like FeedbackExtortion and/or Demanding Something not Advertised. Pushing the meaning a bit but....

Again, tell him to open the Claim.

You might also want to put this on record with Customer Service.

The phone reps have a terrible reputation for getting you off the phone as soon as possible even if that means giving you the advice you want to hear instead of the advice you need to have.

Instead use:

 https://www.facebook.com/eBayForBusiness/ — Message button in upper right on landing page.

https://www.instagram.com/ebayforsellers/

 https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/How-do-I-contact-Customer-Support/m-p/32016431#M1783851 -> Automated Assistant, type AGENT -> enter. You will then get more options.  

Ask for a case number.
The social media Chat accounts are covered by trained eBay employees with some authority.

And you get a transcript so you can compare what you heard with what you were told.

If he opens and loses the Claim, he could try going to a credit card chargeback, but eBay has been pretty good about standing behind sellers who fight those with credible evidence of shiftiness.

rocketscollectibles · ‎02-03-2024

Sounds like you are getting scammed. If you think you could have made a mistake this is another story. But my strategy in similar cases when i totally know this is a scam, its to professionally scare the buyer. I reply how it was packed, that i remember packing it, that the package was weighted, etc. I say i will take the return and that it must be returned with the full content of the package. If cards missing, the situation will be reported to autorities, with ebay investigating, as his statement basically states a canada post employee stole the content of the package. Etc. I would just word something that would not insult someone legit while scaring a scammer, and act like going into the process normally.

Most scammers give up when they get scared and feel or think they could get caught. Or about go into serious situations with investigation. They fishing, sellers to protect themself must play their game. I made several people close cases this way since i'm selling. Still remember someone buying 2 items and claiming 1 was missing. It was packs of cards sleeves and literally impossible to be missed. Next day after my reply the buyer left me a positive saying everything was perfect. How funny.

msau4301 · ‎02-03-2024

You already have advice here on your next steps. It's possible what happened is AT FIRST he thought there were no cards as he only saw your packing cardboard and panicked he didn't have the cards messaging right away (panic reaction). Although you messaged him with questions it's possible his english is poor and he didn't understand and had actually found them later. Even if he did finally find the cards within your mailer the fact that he thinks he can continue through with a claim would be reason to not let him get away with it.

If he has officially opened a return request through eBay check the final day eBay gave you to provide return label, and make sure you provide label by that date if you are going that route but first talk to eBay on one of the social media links as others have suggested (reallynicestamps provided all the direct links). Good luck.

ricarmic · ‎02-03-2024

PS to OP "By that date" means if it says February 5th it really means by 11:59 February 4th. I've learned the hard way that the due date means a couple minues after midnight on the "due date" to the "bots".....

rocketscollectibles · ‎02-03-2024

Reading some comments. You guys really are so positive and gives way too much the benefit of the doubt. Claiming empty package is a classic. Buyer even burn himself there:

All he told me is that eBay told him that if I (the seller) want to avoid a "bad mark" on my seller account, I should just refund him without asking him to send anything back.

Ebay support will never tell something like that to a buyer. This sentence is an obvious lie. He just do feedback extortion with smart wording. Between the lines its the buyer saying: refund me or you'll get a negative. It's a very obvious scam attempt.

38e_avenue · ‎02-03-2024

@rocketscollectibles wrote:
Reading some comments. You guys really are so positive and gives way too much the benefit of the doubt. Claiming empty package is a classic.

Exactly what I mean! Forgot to put cards inside? A thief stealing content and then delivering empty package? C'mon, guys! This is a 100% scam!

reallynicestamps · ‎02-04-2024

Yes, lads. We know that.

But we are more interested in getting the OP justice (the payment and no problematical negs) than in slamming the scammer.

doc_scribe · ‎02-04-2024

@rocketscollectibles wrote:
Sounds like you are getting scammed. If you think you could have made a mistake this is another story. But my strategy in similar cases when i totally know this is a scam, its to professionally scare the buyer. I reply how it was packed, that i remember packing it, that the package was weighted, etc. I say i will take the return and that it must be returned with the full content of the package. If cards missing, the situation will be reported to autorities, with ebay investigating, as his statement basically states a canada post employee stole the content of the package. Etc. I would just word something that would not insult someone legit while scaring a scammer, and act like going into the process normally.

Most scammers give up when they get scared and feel or think they could get caught. Or about go into serious situations with investigation. They fishing, sellers to protect themself must play their game. I made several people close cases this way since i'm selling. Still remember someone buying 2 items and claiming 1 was missing. It was packs of cards sleeves and literally impossible to be missed. Next day after my reply the buyer left me a positive saying everything was perfect. How funny.

Along with the other sellers who have addressed this subject, more sound advice @rocketscollectibles .

...with only one minor addition regarding "reporting to postal authorities for investigation..." I always add the legal term for such interference: "rifling." 😎

ilikehockeyjerseys · ‎02-04-2024

Everybody knows that these cases are 99.99 percent of the time a scam. Nobody is suggesting otherwise. Most people seem to suggest that OP is polite but vigilant, and not provide a refund without a return.

When I suggest they help the buyer with their problem, I don't mean to imply there is an actual problem on the buyer's end. These situations are pretty simple to resolve because scammers rarely are bold enough to want to get on eBay's radar, let alone Canada Post. As soon as you offer to help them with the problem, their neighbour or roommate coincidentally shows up with the cards!

38e_avenue · ‎02-04-2024

@ilikehockeyjerseys wrote:
Everybody knows that these cases are 99.99 percent of the time a scam. Nobody is suggesting otherwise.

@ilikehockeyjerseys wrote:
One of three things happened:
1 - You forgot to put the cards in.
2 - Someone stole the cards in transit.
3 - The buyer is committing fraud.

Nobody? 😃

38e_avenue · ‎02-04-2024

@rocketscollectibles wrote:
But my strategy in similar cases when i totally know this is a scam, its to professionally scare the buyer. If cards missing, the situation will be reported to autorities, with ebay investigating, as his statement basically states a canada post employee stole the content of the package. Etc. I would just word something that would not insult someone legit while scaring a scammer, and act like going into the process normally. Most scammers give up when they get scared and feel or think they could get caught. Or about go into serious situations with investigation. They fishing, sellers to protect themself must play their game. I made several people close cases this way since i'm selling. Still remember someone buying 2 items and claiming 1 was missing.

This is a good advice and it might work. I did it a few times in the past. I just told the buyer, I will contact the USPS / CPC inspector and the official investigation will start shortly. After sending the message, I was never contacted again by the buyer. I hope it works for the OP, too! Good luck!