eBay

klaycritters · ‎01-10-2014

I'm selling an expensive camera ($1100.00) and a buyer with "0" rating from Poland has made me an offer of $1200.00 to purchase it. I've never shipped to Poland. I need advice here. The camera would be shipped from Canada to Poland. The offer is higher than the asking price because of the additional shipping charge. I am offering free shipping to USA or Canada

Am i covered by Paypal/Ebay if this person doesn't receive it? Does this offer sound legitimate? Should i be worried by the "O" rating. The buyer account says it was set up Jan 1. There are so many scams around i need to find out.

Thanks!

rose-dee · ‎01-10-2014

I assume you are planning to send this via Xpresspost? That would be the only service that in my view would make sense; anything else won't protect you if you're worried about the "0" FB and/or the location (Poland).

In the final analysis, you have to decide what your level of comfort is with the risk, as small as it may be. Having "0" FB isn't necessarily a red flag, as I think many buyers in the eastern European countries may just be discovering eBay. However, having an inexperienced eBay buyer who may not speak English (or at least be able to correspond in English) could make the transaction a bit more difficult if there happened to be any problems.

And then you have to consider the reliability and safety of the Polish postal system. I don't know about Poland, but the Russian postal system has been reported to be rife with corruption and inefficiency. Remember too, that you will have to show the value and type of item on the customs declaration -- this in itself could garner the wrong kind of attention.

Xpresspost will help to cover you in the event of a loss or theft, but then there are those worrisome customs problems (buyer refusing the parcel because customs $ are too high), and what about the possibility of breakage during all that international handling? I know that customs charges to some European countries are currently outrageous, and not all buyers are well-informed about such costs before purchasing. I don't sell in the camera category, but I would think such items might be subject to these issues.

You can turn down the offer and wait for a buyer from the US or Canada if you're really worried. Even if it takes longer, chances are it would be an easier transaction to manage. It's a hard call to make...

klaycritters · ‎01-10-2014

Thank you for your answer. I checked with Canada Post and they said the duty would probably be around $180 for the buyer. I contacted him/her to let them know.

If i wait for the payment to clear and send out the item - would the problem lie with the buyer if they did not receive the item?

Then they would contact Paypal with the claim? Paypal covers international claims?

ok if i'm feeling this uneasy then you're right. I have a lot of interest and offers in the item and i know it will sell in North America. Thanks for your input. Really appreciate it.

rose-dee · ‎01-10-2014

@klaycritters wrote:
If i wait for the payment to clear and send out the item - would the problem lie with the buyer if they did not receive the item?

Then they would contact Paypal with the claim? Paypal covers international claims?

I hope my input was of some help. You probably know better if you've been selling camera equipment what the risks are.

I was assuming in my comments above that your Polish buyer has not yet actually purchased the item -- is that correct?

Unfortunately, the way eBay/Paypal policies go, the problem is the seller's if the buyer claims the item was not received. Now, with Xpresspost, with an item of this value, provided you pay for signature confirmation, the buyer is supposed to have to sign for the parcel, which will prove receipt, making an INR claim from the buyer impossible. Yet I've seen reports on these boards of buyers refusing to accept/sign for an item because they balk at paying the customs charges.

Others have reported buyers who filed fake INR claims, but in the case of an Xpresspost parcel, the buyer would have to refuse delivery (or just not pick the item up), and you'd have no way to prove it got into the buyer's hands. Eventually the parcel would be sent back to you, but you'd lose the INR case. These are all just rare worst case scenarios, but something to consider before you accept the offer from the Polish buyer.

You might be able to judge by the Polish buyer's response to the information you sent about customs charges as to whether you should proceed or not. If he/she replies in fairly good English, in a friendly reply, and seems to have no problem with the customs charges, you might want to go ahead. Remember too that postal authorities tack on charges for actually collecting the customs/duties/taxes, so that $180 could go considerably higher.

Actually, that $180 seems low -- it's about 16% on an item valued at $1100. Is it possible Canada Post thought you were inquiring about the import charges on bringing such an item into Canada? I recall a UK customer telling me that he'd had to pay something like 40% duty on a fairly moderately priced item (under $100). It might be worth it to somehow double-check on that charge you were quoted, perhaps from another source.

Best of luck with this! I hate to give advice on "what to do" in such situations, since my risk tolerance may be different from that of other sellers. All I can say is that if I decided to proceed with this sale, I would definitely use Xpresspost and most definitely with signature confirmation. I can't recall if you get that included with international Xpresspost, or if you have to pay extra (if so, it's only around $1.50 if I recall correctly), but you'll be more exposed if you don't. Even if the customer didn't want to pay the full cost of Xpresspost, I'd "subsidize" the shipping by upgrading it to that service to protect myself.

rose-dee · ‎01-10-2014

@klaycritters wrote:

Then they would contact Paypal with the claim? Paypal covers international claims?

I forgot to mention that you should insure the item to its full value (when you prepare the Canada Post shipping label) so that if the parcel goes completely missing, and never gets to the buyer, you can make a claim from Canada Post for the insurance. That insurance will cost you an extra $10-15 on your expensive item.

However, the buyer would open his claim through eBay/Paypal for non-receipt (Item Not Received), and you'd be protected in such a dispute only if you pay for signature confirmation (Paypal/eBay require signature confirmation for seller protection for items over $325 Cdn in value -- although there's been a lot of discussion and disagreement about the correct dollar amount; for eBay.com I believe it's currently $250 US). But you're way over any of those amounts, at a value of $1100, so signature confirmation is a necessity in this instance if you want some hope of being protected.

Yes, Paypal does cover international claims (if you're referring to your protection as seller), but you might want to read the fine print where Poland is concerned. Check the details re seller protection on the Paypal website.

If this were a $100 item, I'd say just do it, but you'll want to consider all these issues before proceeding. It just seems that selling such an item to the US or Canada is a lot simpler.

judithsjewellery · ‎01-10-2014

It's a scam. Buyer with 0 feedback offering to pay more than you are asking? No way would I touch this with a ten foot pole. Run don't walk to the next buyer.

klaycritters · ‎01-10-2014

I want to thank everyone for their input. I don't usually deal with selling cameras or anything near that expensive. This is just a one time thing. I contacted the buyer warning him of the high duty charges and then the reply from him was do you ship to Poland? Obviously not the answer i was looking for. In light of the strange reply, i've decided best not to risk sending it.

Thanks again !

pjcdn2005 · ‎01-11-2014

i've decided best not to risk sending it.

I think that it is a good decision. I would probably decide the same for an item that expensive regardless if the Polish buyer had 0 feedback or 100 feedback. But then I don't sell anything that expensive so it is definitely out of my comfort zone.

As rose mentioned, in the case of an item not received claim, paypal requires that delivery confirmation and a signature be shown as proof of delivery. However, I've heard that in some countries, the post office will rarely will have the buyer sign and even if they do, in some cases, they do not have a way of showing that signature online. So if the item shows that delivery was made but there is no online signature, you would be required by Paypal to refund.

mr.elmwood · ‎01-11-2014

Well, signature, tracked delivery is $100. Fluke that the buyer offered what the shipping cost is? You sell a lot of $8 stuff, so, $1100 would be at the far end of your comfort zone. I have very little problems with Eastern Europe or Russia, but, that is me and my plastic car parts.

Mind you, for the delivery cost, you are covered for all hazards except CC theft. That can happen anywhere.

The buyer's answer to your question is not unreasonable considering there is a language barrier and they are possibly running your message through a translator.

Me? I would sell, wait for the payment to clear Paypal, even phone them to double check it. Then I would send it Priority Worldwide Pak. I have had Canadian and American thieves.

Heck! Request a bank wire transfer. That is non-reversible. You are then guaranteed paid and insured.

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femmefan1946 · ‎01-11-2014

a buyer with "0" rating from Poland has made me an offer of $1200.00 to purchase it.

The red flag is not so much Poland or even the 0 feedback, as the offer to pay over the asking price.

That sounds like a variation on the Nigerian scam.

It also takes the sale off eBay, unless he actually bids and you have an underbidder offering $1199.99 (I'm a little unclear on increments, obviously.)

Paypal has very strong Buyer Protection, so you could still end up out the money and the item.

You are right to avoid the transaction.

femmefan1946 · ‎01-11-2014

Heck! Request a bank wire transfer. That is non-reversible. You are then guaranteed paid and insured.

That's a good point. The Polish offer is going to be off-eBay in any case. A wire transfer could cost you $25-$40, depending on your bank and your age.

mr.elmwood · ‎01-11-2014

Europeans are strong on bank-wire. A red flag would be their hesitancy to use it.

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rose-dee · ‎01-11-2014

@femmefan1946 wrote:
Heck! Request a bank wire transfer. That is non-reversible. You are then guaranteed paid and insured.

That's a good point. The Polish offer is going to be off-eBay in any case. A wire transfer could cost you $25-$40, depending on your bank and your age.

I'm not sure I understand why the Polish offer would necessarily be off-eBay, and frankly if I were faced with this situation, I'd insist on an eBay transaction to keep things "visible".

In any case, I thought wire transfers were not permitted by eBay -- am I mistaken? I can never remember exactly which payment methods EBay allows because I've specified Paypal only for some time.

To the OP: I didn't want to say this so directly earlier, but I think you've made the right decision not to proceed. You'll get a buyer for that camera in the US or Canada and will be less likely to be dealing with a language barrier to start with.

mr.elmwood · ‎01-11-2014

@rose-dee wrote:
@femmefan1946 wrote:
Heck! Request a bank wire transfer. That is non-reversible. You are then guaranteed paid and insured.

That's a good point. The Polish offer is going to be off-eBay in any case. A wire transfer could cost you $25-$40, depending on your bank and your age.

I'm not sure I understand why the Polish offer would necessarily be off-eBay, and frankly if I were faced with this situation, I'd insist on an eBay transaction to keep things "visible".

In any case, I thought wire transfers were not permitted by eBay -- am I mistaken? I can never remember exactly which payment methods EBay allows because I've specified Paypal only for some time.

To the OP: I didn't want to say this so directly earlier, but I think you've made the right decision not to proceed. You'll get a buyer for that camera in the US or Canada and will be less likely to be dealing with a language barrier to start with.

I respectfully disagree.

There ya go. Two different points of view.

The question remains, however, if you are nervous about selling it, why list it?

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rose-dee · ‎01-11-2014

mr. elmwood wrote:

I respectfully disagree.

There ya go. Two different points of view.

The question remains, however, if you are nervous about selling it, why list it?

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Well, we've disagreed before, that's OK Mr. E.

I understand your point, and I think it's valid for some. However, for a smaller or occasional seller, my view is that it doesn't make sense to sell something expensive to a country with a higher risk postal system to a buyer with higher risk (0 FB) and language issues, at higher shipping cost, when there are much easier options (less trouble and expense to the US or Canada).

My opinion is that if the OP doesn't sell ca. $1100 camera equipment every day and can't easily take a loss that large or doesn't want to deal with special needs sales, it's best to restrict where she/he will ship in the first place.

Personally, if I had never sold camera equipment online before, and had only one expensive piece to sell, I'd probably try to find a different venue (local sale in person).

mr.elmwood · ‎01-11-2014

@rose-dee wrote:
@mr. elmwood wrote:

I respectfully disagree.
There ya go. Two different points of view.
The question remains, however, if you are nervous about selling it, why list it?
_________________________________________________________________________________________

Well, we've disagreed before, that's OK Mr. E.

I understand your point, and I think it's valid for some. However, for a smaller or occasional seller, my view is that it doesn't make sense to sell something expensive to a country with a higher risk postal system to a buyer with higher risk (0 FB) and language issues, at higher shipping cost, when there are much easier options (less trouble and expense to the US or Canada).

My opinion is that if the OP doesn't sell ca. $1100 camera equipment every day and can't easily take a loss that large or doesn't want to deal with special needs sales, it's best to restrict where she/he will ship in the first place.

Personally, if I had never sold camera equipment online before, and had only one expensive piece to sell, I'd probably try to find a different venue (local sale in person).

That is my point. I have had more thieves in Montreal than I have had in all of Europe.

What becomes the point of listing, if the seller is afraid to sell?

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klaycritters · ‎01-11-2014

ok! I see there has been some further discussion here. The Polish buyer looked into exactly what it would cost him. It would be 5% duty PLUS 23% VAT. So that would be 28% which he said was too way much. He politely declined buying the item.

Thanks

rose-dee · ‎01-15-2014

@klaycritters wrote:
ok! I see there has been some further discussion here. The Polish buyer looked into exactly what it would cost him. It would be 5% duty PLUS 23% VAT. So that would be 28% which he said was too way much. He politely declined buying the item.

Thanks

Aha -- as I mentioned earlier, I thought importing into Europe would be 30% to 40% of the cost of the item, so it's always best to have the buyer check with his own country's authorities, rather than relying on information from Canada Post.

Well, now you still have an $1100 camera to sell. If you're located in a city, you might prefer to try selling it in person to a dealer, Kijiji, or even through a local classified ad. If you're not normally in the business of selling expensive camera equipment and you're anxious about listing it here, then that may be the less stressful option. You may get less for it, but you'll have cash in your hand and no worries about shipping costs, breakage, theft, non-delivery or fraud.