Item sent and delivered, but Ebay made me refund the buyer

[busqiva]

I just had a poor experience with a buyer claiming they didn't receive the item I sent.

Tracking info shows as delivered, but I didn't require a signature when I sent it (in hindsight, I will never do that again, I guess).

Buyer messaged saying he hadn't received anything, and despite my efforts to try to help him find the package, he would not cooperate or seem interested in actually finding it. For example, I opened a ticket with CanadaPost and told him that the form asked me for his phone number so they could follow up, but he wouldn't provide that, claiming that it was "my problem", not his.

So, unsurprisingly, he asked Ebay to be refunded. Initially, Ebay resolved in my favour, because I had the tracking info showing as delivered. However, 24 hours later I got another email from Ebay saying I had to refund the buyer, and they actually took the money from my PayPal account.

I called Ebay, and was told that I should have used a signature as a requirement, given the high dollar amount of the sale. Here's where it gets a little tricky to interpret, so reaching out to the community for help. The item sold for exactly $750 CAD. When I look for info on this subject, this is what I found (which implies the requirement is for sales of MORE than $750):

Information you’ll need when appealing

You’ll need to provide new, additional information to back up your appeal. This can include things like:

• Tracking details showing the buyer received the item (if the item sold for more than $750, signature confirmation is required)
• Proof that a returned item was delivered to the wrong address or lost in the mail
• Documents showing the item matches the listing description
• Proof the buyer received a refund before the case was closed

However, the Ebay agent I spoke with told me the policy is for $750 and over (and admitted that the wording on the website is misleading, but that didn't change anything)

In looking further, I have the impression that the policy was written for USD amounts, but there isn't a CAD equivalent specified anywhere. The closest I have found is from the PayPal User Agreement...

https://www.paypal.com/ca/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full

which has the same policy with regards to "proof of delivery" requirements, and quotes a minimum of $750 USD, or $850 CAD for the signature to be required. Granted, that is Paypal's User Agreement, not Ebay's, but I do think Ebay's own policy is being misinterpreted.

I have only had one phone call with Ebay trying to appeal this, but they didn't want to listen to any of this. They also said that the warning should have been there when I printed the shipping label, but I didn't see any warning. I printed the label from PayPal, so I wonder if they use the $850 threshold instead.

Any advice on how else I can pursue this appeal?

[esclyons]

when you put insurance, of 200$ or more, signature is automatically added.  With that being said, i would call paypal as you have seller protection there. Call them and explain the situation, and see what they can offer you.

[ypdc_dennis]

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@esclyons wrote:

when you put insurance, of 200$ or more, signature is automatically added.  ...

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Does not apply for shipments through Shippo as any insurance over the base amount is via a third party insurer not through Canada Post.

Not sure how netparcel (one of PayPal's shipping choices) handles insurance.

-..-

[esclyons]

i see,...    i mail all my items over the counter at the post office.

[pjcdn2005]

that’s a big lose, I’m so sorry and wish I had some advice that would help.

Unfortunately , it’s fairly specific that a signature is required for inr claims if a sale is $750 or more.  I thought that the amount was $850 on both PP and eBay but apparently not. 

Tracking information needs to include:

1. A delivery status of "delivered"
2. The date of delivery
3. The recipient's address
4. Signature confirmation, if an item has a total cost of $750 or more

https://www.ebay.ca/help/policies/selling-policies/seller-protection-policy?id=4345&st=3&pos=1&query...

[tyler@ebay]

Hi @busqiva - I'm sorry to hear about this transaction, our information should be consistent that the requirement for signature confirmation is $750 and more. I've been looking for the information you quoted but haven't been able to find it. Are you able to provide a link to the resource that has that wording? I can submit a request that it be clarified. 

Thanks!

[busqiva]

Hi @Tyler

Sure, I copy-pasted that information from here:

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/managing-returns-refunds/appeal-ebays-decision-return-missing-item...

[reallynicestamps]

That "total cost" has always to my mind included shipping cost.

So if an item sold for $749 and had a shipping cost of $5, it would require a signature.

[tyler@ebay]

Thanks @busqiva! I've gotten this submitted for an update and hope to see this clarified quickly. 

[richardcm]

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tyler@ebay wrote:

Hi @busqiva - I'm sorry to hear about this transaction, our information should be consistent that the requirement for signature confirmation is $750 and more. I've been looking for the information you quoted but haven't been able to find it. Are you able to provide a link to the resource that has that wording? I can submit a request that it be clarified. 

Thanks!

---

I found this on eBay.com with the text 

• Tracking was uploaded and shows that the item was delivered to the buyer’s address within the stated estimated delivery date. If the item sold for more than $750, signature confirmation is required

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/selling-seller-performance/appeal-defect?id=4871

And same link on eBay.ca.

https://www.ebay.ca/help/selling/selling-seller-performance/appeal-defect?id=4871

Edit: It looks like you found the links above while I was posting my reply above. Hopefully we have the same areas in eBay with the incorrect wording. 

[busqiva]

Thanks @tyler

While that would help avoid confusion in future cases, it still doesn't help me in my current situation.

Also, I would suggest clarifying the amounts in different currencies. For example, both the US and Canadian site quote $750, but I don't know if that's $750 USD in both cases, or the same amount in each currency.

In the Paypal User Agreement, for example, they specify the amounts in each currency (in their case, they specify $750 US or $850 CAD)

Thanks

[teenytrinkets]

I think you should be able to win your appeal strictly from the wording on the .ca website that reads "more than $750".

Doesn't matter if $750 or more is implied, it's not what's documented.

Hope then they honor what they have documented

[pjcdn2005]

Although that information should be more specific, the quote is taken from the appealing defects section which sellers probably don’t see until they have an appeal. I got the impression that the seller read that policy once there was a problem with the transaction, not before so the decision on getting a signature was probably not based on the ‘more than $750’ statement.  But...I’m just guessing, I could be wrong.

The information in selling policies that I quoted in post 5 does specify $750 or more and that’s the area that sellers should read before listing so I suspect that eBay is not going to change their decision.  

[teenytrinkets]

Hard to say. I don't sell anything for more than $75 because v that's the most I'm willing to lose in any transaction. But if I had $750 on the line with a scammy buyer, you bet your a$$ I'd be working every possible Avenue to claw my money back from that buyer...

[shopmart6363]

I’m an eBay seller too and I got some advice for you,Stop doing business with eBay,they’re a bunch of crooks.

[busqiva]

Yeah, thought so too.

Unfortunately they wouldn't listen to that. They accepted that the info on that page is wrong (or poorly worded, at least), but won't accept my appeal based on that. Seems like my options are exhausted, at least through eBay. 😞

[esclyons]

Try Paypal, you have protection through them as well. and if they state 850$ you will be covered.

[pjcdn2005]

PayPal can’t get involved in a case opened on ebay

[reallynicestamps]

Paypal allows a buyer to open a case if the eBay dispute fails. This is particularly important if the buyer missed the eBay "30 days from delivery" deadline.

But I don't think there is any Paypal Dispute criterion for sellers.

[luckylegend]

**bleep** EBAY! Call them again during different hours and tell them to escalate it. I once called them like 40 times before I got my case resolved. And on top of it I called paypal 40 times