eBay

ricarmic · ‎02-22-2016

Today I looked up my latest late shipping defect.

(reminder I sell stamps and only sell on .COM)

Buyer is from Israel, always a worrisome country to get it delivered in the first place...buyer's feedback is positive. I can't see DSRs anymore, but I got a late shipping defect. (non tracked)

(I really think they should consider waiving late shipping defects for these slow countries like they used to do for INR defects for countries like this, Russia, Brazil etc)

This isn't a first time buyer, buyer also sells so theoretically they know the damage answering "No" causes. (I believe it must have only been a day or two late, I can't tell the date they left feedback anymore). Possibly they left a bunch of feedbacks together and by accident answered "No" erroneously to mine? (I have had other buyers do this).

I think about whether the buyer is likely to come back and late shipping is likely to happen again, and I decide yes.

So I review my options:

1) I review whether I should change my international shipping from "standard international" to "economy international" flat rate. Look at the wondrous tables folks provided in other threads and it makes no difference for Israel.

2) I think about whether I should change my 2 day handling time to a bigger number, but that affects all buyers just to try to avoid problems with the country(s) I sell very little to. Seems an over-reaction at this point.

3) I think about blocking Israel as a country. I think about this hard. I've always been proud that I still ship everywhere (I sold to 55 different countries last year). I decide perhaps it was just a mistake this time, a one time problem I and I pass on this idea for now.

4) I think about whether I should contact the buyer about it, but really this has risks in and of itself. It could provoke other troublesome problems if they don't react well, ie it wasn't a mistake, they get irritated, they do buy something else again, and I have additional risk of bad feedback beyond late shipping. English may or may not be a spoken language and language barriers may be an issue.

5) I think about blocking the buyer. Current transaction is settled, worst damage is the late shipping. Blocking avoids future late shipping defects, but also loses future transactions with a buyer that I know I can get stuff successfully to.

Result: I block the buyer.

This really goes against everything eBay is trying to promote, but I have to protect myself. Selling to dangerous INR countries is bad enough on its own without risking the effect the late shipping problems cause.

Personally in the last 17 years I've sold on eBay, this is the stupidest reason ever that I've blocked a person for. Enough said.

momcqueen · ‎02-25-2016

I like that version of your letter better.

The feedback solicitation guidelines that I remember reading expanded on the link above and provided examples of allowed communication versus not. But this was years ago, in one of their handy guides to Best Practises. I'll check to see where it might be found. Some of those pages are gone but on might have printed a pdf of it.

sylviebee · ‎02-25-2016

I'm just looking for something that won't hurt but might help.

I know my buyer who left the poor shipping time rating for me was more than pleased with the transaction and only intended to leave PFB.

I don't think that buyers will see anything offensive in it?

momcqueen · ‎02-25-2016

I would not be at all offended to read that message as a buyer, the second one. I may, however, be stupifed by the defect for my seller if the late delivery was due to my postal carrier. It really doesn't make any sense for eBay to do these things this way.

maggiebvintage2010 · ‎02-25-2016

The message contains a lot of "I" and not a lot of "why". How about this:

Dear Buyer,

I take buyers’ ratings very seriously, as does eBay. Among other feedback questions which rate sellers, eBay now includes a delivery date and asks buyers to note if the item was received by that date.

Buyers can respond with a Yes, No, or leave the question blank.

I’m drawing your attention to this question because the date range used by eBay is shorter than the estimated delivery given by the Post Office. It seems to be based on US domestic delivery estimates, and not Canada, where your item was shipped. When a buyer answers “No” to that question, the seller is penalized in a way that may harm their standing as an eBay seller.

That question actually rates our postal system(s), weather conditions, processing at the border, and other factors beyond any seller's control.

In short, if you respond that an item arrived later than the eBay cutoff date, then our entire transaction will receive a Negative rating even though that may not have been your intent.

If you have any concerns about the arrival date of your purchase, I would appreciate it if you would contact me directly through eBay Messages, and consider the consequences for sellers before you answer “no” to the arrival date.

Sincerely,

ricarmic · ‎02-25-2016

I'm late to the show was out of the office earlier today....

Great work Sylvie/Maggie!

I like to try to keep things as short as possible, I took out a lot of some stuff and adjusted quite a bit....personally I like to avoid things like asking the buyers to consider the consequences of their action, to me that is a bit like telling them what to do (we infer asking them not to answer no by telling them answering no hurts the seller if they didn't intend to...those "didnt intend to" folks will understand, the ones that are unhappy would have said no anyway).. I also thought it might be good to incorporate (my at least) standard if anything is wrong with this transaction please just contact me at the end, it is a nice segue from the earlier discussion....and doesn't leave the buyer focused totally on the on-time aspect..... certainly others will have more suggestions I'm sure, I probably will when I look at the latest version again later on!!!!

Dear Buyer,

I take buyers’ ratings very seriously, as does eBay. Among other feedback questions which rate sellers, eBay now includes an estimated delivery date and asks buyers to note if the item was received by that date.

I’m drawing your attention to this question because the estimated delivery date is sometimes shorter than that given by the post office. The actual delivery time can be affected by weather conditions, processing at the border (your item was shipped from Canada), and a number of other factors beyond the seller's control. If enough buyers answer “No” to that question, the seller is penalized, even though that may not have been the buyer's intent.

If you are not completely pleased with this transaction, please contact me via email. I will do my very best to resolve any problem you may have. Regards, SELLERNAME

================================

I'll have to put my mind to where/when/if I use whatever turns out to be the final version. I may send it to international folks, although a lot depends on whether they even speak English. I think a lot do not, given the communication issues I regularly have (me and google translate are best buddies anymore). This would be a good time for our linguist Rose to help with words that translate well to other languages

momcqueen · ‎02-25-2016

I have looked but I cannot find the ebay seller's best practises guide that talks specifically about what not to say when asking about or encouraging buyers to leave feedback. What I am thinking of was from a few years ago and it was relevant to the pre-defect system of seller standards (not the present or even previous system) so it has probably long been abandoned and taken off-line.

Here's what I do see, however, and here is how I would interpret it if I were to play the Devil's advocate. From the Feedback Extortion Policy on ebay.com http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/feedback-extortion.html and the boldface/italics emphasis is mine. I know your note does not say this now but if a 'feedback specialist' were to have a look at the original draft, I think they would contort your meaning to defy the 'spirit or intent of the feedback function' or whatever it is that they call it these days when they cannot otherwise find the correct part of their script to cite in their nonsensical replies.

Sellers:

The seller can't require a buyer to leave positive Feedback, specific detailed seller ratings, or revise existing Feedback in exchange for a number of things, including, but not limited to:

Receiving the purchased item

widgetc · ‎02-25-2016

I have 2 late delivery defects on 58 transactions. Both items were mailed on time but eBay calls it late shipping. My items are sent letter mail so I can save buyers money. This metric is so flawed it is just plain stupid Sellers should get to rate eBay and our fees should be reduced if they get a bad rating!

momcqueen · ‎02-25-2016

Following up on my previous reply.....

In other words, a seller cannot direct a buyer to leave feedback one way or another or it is considered 'extortion'. Personally, I do not see it that way. If the right item is sent on time, how is asking for positive feedback a bad thing? It shouldn't be. And although the Detailed Seller Ratings are separate from The Question (as confirmed by R at Board Hour today in reply to a question from rosedee), I'm certain that if someone from ebay were to admonish a seller for talking about the implications of answering 'no' to The Question in a note to a buyer, the line between the two would be conveniently blurred so that it applied to the extortion policy in a way that suited ebay and not the seller.

In short, I would still be very careful about how to word a note such as this.

If I were to use one, I might make it look more like:

Thank you for [your purchase]. Please be assured that your satisfaction is paramount to us and we strive to provide positive, five-star service with every order! Please talk to us before leaving feedback if you feel we could have done a better job serving you. We really do care to make things right.

Did You Know? That when a buyer answers 'no' to the question 'Did you receive your order by [date]?' it rates the whole transaction as negative against the seller's performance even if the seller shipped it within their stated handling time? Please remember these delivery estimates provided by ebay are based on averages and do not take into account actual buyer location, weather delays, or postal carrier errors.

Thank you again for your business. We look forward to serving you again soon.

Sincerely,

[whoever]

What about that? Light, breezy, informative, and it does not suggest anything. Overtly.

38e_avenue · ‎02-25-2016

I am not sure if people will read that ..... it's long and sounds complicated for someone, who just came here to shop easily.

Here what I did:

1. I switched all listings to economy shipping (A MUST!)

2. I immediately blocked all buyers who marked "late shipment" (they were not obligated to do so, but they did, right?)

3. I am thinking about excluding all "slow" countries (recently got 2 defects from Australia and Germany).

momcqueen · ‎02-25-2016

I eliminated all Small Packets Airmail for Tracked Packet and reduced service by Light Packet to less than 30 per cent of the items that used to have it as a service option. My only other soft spot is Canada Post Lettermail on about 15 per cent of the things I sell. I have no defects at present, and I'm determined to keep it that way. Eventually, ebay will see this particular standard does not work for Canadian sellers because we do not have the same tools as do our American counterparts. Until then, I'm doing what needs to be done to make it work for me.

The note we are crafting is being considered for packing slips. The buyer is not obligated even to read it. My proposed version is between 100 and 150 words. Does that really seem too long?

38e_avenue · ‎02-25-2016

... and what makes me really sick, is the explanation: "transactions that weren't shipped on time"

Do they REALLY think, the delays are caused by LATE SHIPMENT?

(the Australian item I mentioned above was shipped withing about 2 hours after I got the payment)

38e_avenue · ‎02-25-2016

mjwl2006 wrote: My proposed version is between 100 and 150 words. Does that really seem too long?

Well .....every month I have some troubles with buyers, who did not read ANYTHING, the item's description INCLUDED

momcqueen · ‎02-25-2016

My biggest problem with this whole thing? The 'receive by' date does not take into account delivery to and from the main urban centre in that area. If the seller lives in a rural and/or remote location and the buyer lives in a rural and/or remote location, it will add many uncounted days to the actual delivery time which ebay does not add to the estimate total despite giving the appearance that it does when asking the buyer to enter their postal code for delivery estimates. This is known.

momcqueen · ‎02-25-2016

@38e_avenue wrote:
mjwl2006 wrote: My proposed version is between 100 and 150 words. Does that really seem too long?

Well .....every month I have some troubles with buyers, who did not read ANYTHING, the item's description INCLUDED

Regrettably, i had one recently that didn't read the description or title, nor did he look at the pictures. I think he bought it based on an email from ebay, one of the ones that reads something like, 'You looked at this item for three seconds last week. It sold! Here is one like it. Check it out!'

ricarmic · ‎02-26-2016

Mjwl I like your latest "light breezy" version!!

I was worrying about how close to "the line" saying anything about the ratings impact would be in a special note.

I think for now I will keep it as one of my contingency plans depending on how my late shipping count goes.....

sylviebee · ‎02-26-2016

@mjwl2006 wrote:
Following up on my previous reply.....

In other words, a seller cannot direct a buyer to leave feedback one way or another or it is considered 'extortion'.

It’s very common for sellers to include a note requesting that buyers leave FB, and the gist of those notes is almost always:
IF you are not satisfied with the transaction, THEN please contact me prior to leaving FB.
That’s closer to extortion than my notes are, and no one considers those notes to be a violation of policy.

The purpose of the note is simply to explain the situation to buyers because they are generally not aware that we are being penalized by their response to that question.

Still, it's a difficult note to pen.

I'm going to take everyone's input into account and come up with something usable that clearly explains the situation and include it with my items.

momcqueen · ‎02-26-2016

I totally agree. If a seller is going to the trouble to include a note in the order, it's asking (either directly or indirectly) for positive feedback. As a buyer, I've seen some exceedingly polite ones, and then some that were real doozies. I'm merely looking at this from the troubleshooter's point-of-view. Most of us have had, at one time or another, a conversation with the feedback 'specialists' at ebay, and all that I'm trying to do here is help to mitigate any potential damage to a seller in terms of the direction they get after the fact should they decide to include this kind of note.

To me the 'extortion' policy is clear in its intent: don't try to tell the buyer what kind of feedback to leave. How this policy is actually applied and when it is applied is totally decided, I am certain, on a case by case basis.

Do I think a seller would get into hot water if they included a note like the one I suggested? No, I do not. But the potential is there. There are thousands of reasons the police can choose to pull you over in traffic but the reality is that they will not bother unless you a doing something flagrant as a driver. And if they do, well, they are going to give you such a look-over that they will know how many times you wiped the last time you visited the washroom. That is the simply nature of enforcement. This is no different. It's best to stay under the radar.

momcqueen · ‎02-26-2016

And for the record, the following would be the note I'll consider including if I begin to get late ratings on the domestic lettermail service that I do still offer. I've massaged it a little from its previous version

Please be assured we strive to provide positive, five-star service with every order! Kindly talk to us before leaving feedback if you feel we could have done a better job serving you. Your complete satisfaction is our top priority.

Did You Know? When a buyer answers 'no' to the question 'Did you receive your order by [date]?' the whole transaction is rated negative against the seller's performance even if the seller shipped it within their stated handling time. Please remember the delivery estimates provided by ebay are based on averages and do not take into account your actual location as a buyer, weather delays, or postal carrier errors.

Thank you for your purchase. We look forward to serving you again!

Sincerely,
Maureen

sylviebee · ‎02-26-2016

I don't view this note as any different from the standard note commonly sent by sellers.

I discontinued the old version because, now that eBay has changed the rating system, the old version no longer serves any purpose.

It's time to replace the old message with something relevant which addresses the issue at hand.

No one was wishy-washy when asking for 5 star ratings across the board, so why shy now?

The following note incorporates suggestions made by others. (Thank you very much of the suggestions.)

The reason I'm including this note is because I take good care of my buyers and they know it.

Their way of thanking me for that is the nod they give me when they leave FB. My buyers deserve to understand what those ratings mean, and I deserve to be thanked for that service and not punished by "The Question".

Dear Buyer,

I take buyers’ ratings very seriously, as does eBay.

eBay includes a new question regarding an Estimated Time of Arrival (ETA), and asks buyers to note if the item was received prior to that date.

A buyer has the option of responding Yes, No, or leaving it blank.

I’m drawing your attention to this because the way the question is posed leaves buyers unaware that sellers are penalized if items arrived later that the ETA (i.e. a "No" response) even when items were shipped immediately.

Many factors can increase transit time but the ETA provides no leeway for these external influences.

Just a few are weather conditions, processing at the border (I ship from Canada), holidays and postal delays.

After some careful thought I’ve decided to draw your attention to this issue because, until eBay fixes the problem, those ratings can threaten my standing as your eBay seller.

I hope you enjoy your item, and as always, please free to contact me if you have any questions.

Take Care,

pjcdn2005 · ‎02-26-2016

I am undecided on whether a note is a the way to go but I don't see any of the notes as feedback extortion. Obviously, some disagree but imo the blurb that ebay has on feedback extortion refers only to an exchange of one thing for another. For example - "I'll send you a new item if you give me positive feedback". It doesn't refer to "I've sent your item out and wanted to mention that you may be asked a question...yadda yadda.

For those who are planning on sending a note...Are you planning on sending those only when an item does not tracking? It doesn't make much sense to send that info if there is tracking and the item was sent on time.