eBay

ricarmic · ‎02-22-2016

Today I looked up my latest late shipping defect.

(reminder I sell stamps and only sell on .COM)

Buyer is from Israel, always a worrisome country to get it delivered in the first place...buyer's feedback is positive. I can't see DSRs anymore, but I got a late shipping defect. (non tracked)

(I really think they should consider waiving late shipping defects for these slow countries like they used to do for INR defects for countries like this, Russia, Brazil etc)

This isn't a first time buyer, buyer also sells so theoretically they know the damage answering "No" causes. (I believe it must have only been a day or two late, I can't tell the date they left feedback anymore). Possibly they left a bunch of feedbacks together and by accident answered "No" erroneously to mine? (I have had other buyers do this).

I think about whether the buyer is likely to come back and late shipping is likely to happen again, and I decide yes.

So I review my options:

1) I review whether I should change my international shipping from "standard international" to "economy international" flat rate. Look at the wondrous tables folks provided in other threads and it makes no difference for Israel.

2) I think about whether I should change my 2 day handling time to a bigger number, but that affects all buyers just to try to avoid problems with the country(s) I sell very little to. Seems an over-reaction at this point.

3) I think about blocking Israel as a country. I think about this hard. I've always been proud that I still ship everywhere (I sold to 55 different countries last year). I decide perhaps it was just a mistake this time, a one time problem I and I pass on this idea for now.

4) I think about whether I should contact the buyer about it, but really this has risks in and of itself. It could provoke other troublesome problems if they don't react well, ie it wasn't a mistake, they get irritated, they do buy something else again, and I have additional risk of bad feedback beyond late shipping. English may or may not be a spoken language and language barriers may be an issue.

5) I think about blocking the buyer. Current transaction is settled, worst damage is the late shipping. Blocking avoids future late shipping defects, but also loses future transactions with a buyer that I know I can get stuff successfully to.

Result: I block the buyer.

This really goes against everything eBay is trying to promote, but I have to protect myself. Selling to dangerous INR countries is bad enough on its own without risking the effect the late shipping problems cause.

Personally in the last 17 years I've sold on eBay, this is the stupidest reason ever that I've blocked a person for. Enough said.

rose-dee · ‎02-26-2016

I thought I'd jump in here as there is some misunderstanding about what "Feedback extortion" and "Feedback manipulation" actually are.

FB extortion by sellers is defined by eBay as only those situations where a seller is offering something in exchange for positive FB; in other words holding the buyer ransom for his FB. There is nothing wrong with a seller asking a buyer (especially in a separate insert note) to leave positive FB if the buyer is happy. Here is the relevant portion of the policy, the salient words being "require a buyer".

"Sellers:

The seller can't require a buyer to leave positive Feedback, specific detailed seller ratings, or revise existing Feedback in exchange for a number of things, including, but not limited to:

Receiving the purchased item
Issuing a full or partial refund
Monetary compensation
Additional items
Other goods and services not included in the original listing"

FB manipulation has to do with attempting to circumvent and game the FB system in the seller's favour, not merely asking a buyer to leave positive FB. Here is the relevant "Allowed" portion of the policy, and the link to the whole policy:

"Allowed Saying that you'll leave Feedback after receiving Feedback from other members."

http://pages.ebay.ca/help/policies/feedback-manipulation.html

There is nothing in either of these policies that explicitly prevents sellers from simply soliciting FB from buyers, as long as that solicitation isn't done in an item title.

The real question in my mind is whether including a note such as the ones that have been suggested here is wise at all. Buyers can react in unpredictable ways to being "lectured to", or feeling asked or directed by a seller to act in a particular way after a transaction. Some may even bristle at being "educated" by a seller in this manner, or feel that the seller is whining about his situation even though he's just made a sale. I think this idea could backfire badly. In fact, I think it could result in deliberately negative FB.

The other obvious problem is that unless you can keep the note to a sentence or two, it's already too much for most people. How is a seller going to explain the on-time delivery metric clearly and succinctly, and present the situation to the buyer in a way that not only makes sense, but that the buyer will remember and follow?

My current parcel insert note simply says: "Thanks so much for your purchase! If you're satisfied with this transaction, I'd be pleased if you'd leave positive Feedback. Feel free to contact me at the email address below if you have any questions at all."

I won't be adding anything to it concerning the on-time delivery question, for the reasons above, and also because I believe the poster above was correct who mentioned that eventually buyers will catch on to the true import of the Question. I think a better way to go about this until eBay makes some changes, is to:

1) Discuss and explain the issues on the Canadian buyer discussion board as much as possible;

2) Keep pressing eBay.ca to make changes in this policy that will help Canadians, or to simply pass on our dissatisfaction to eBay HQ;

3) Protect ourselves in the interim by restricting the countries we ship to if there are recognized issues, extending handling times slightly, stating economy shipping, and using tracked shipping wherever possible; and

4) Continuing to give outstanding service so that a buyer is more likely to say "Yes" even if there was a slight shipping delay on a non-tracked parcel.

Keep in mind that we've been told that until there are 5 late orders recorded, the on-time shipment metric has no effect on a seller's standards. Once the count reaches 5, then the percentage calculation begins. This, if accurate, should provide those of us with smaller volumes some comfort.

It has been eBay's pattern over the years to introduce policies that are half-baked or ill-conceived, which then receive a backlash (mostly from sellers), which in turn leads to eBay tweaking or revising those policies. I'm certain this policy will be no exception, so I think it's better for sellers to step cautiously in the meantime.

maggiebvintage2010 · ‎02-26-2016

I have no intention of adding a message about the on-time delivery question. Nor do I ever mention feedback. I do include an invoice with a brief thank you note and my signature with every shipment. I also send a note through eBay Messages advising of shipment, with expected delivery dates according to Canada Post (extended if to a slow country), and advise about possible customs and/or postal delays. I advise them to contact me 7 business days later if they have not then received their purchase.

Only 1 person has ever contacted me, and she waited a further 10 days to do so. I refunded her, and she later repaid me when her purchase finally arrived. Most of my feedback mentions fast shipping. I think that is because I have communicated to buyers to expect a much longer delivery time, and they then think I have over-delivered.

No dings for late delivery yet. When that happens I may rethink my current strategy.

sylviebee · ‎02-26-2016

@pjcdn2005 wrote:

For those who are planning on sending a note...Are you planning on sending those only when an item does not tracking? It doesn't make much sense to send that info if there is tracking and the item was sent on time.

Sometimes I don't know which shipping method I'll use prior to packing, so I'll reword the note slightly so that it works in either situation, but I'll do my best to leave it out of parcels with tracking.

I have never cared for leaving or receiving notes, but I have found that I got more FB when I sent a note and there have been no negative repercussions because of it.

At this stage of the game notes about FB are so common that it's extremely unlikely that anyone would take offence.

It might not help, but it won't hurt either.

It's a personal choice, but my buyers regularly try to reach out to personally thank me so t's highly unlikely that the type of buyers I sell to would take offence.

momcqueen · ‎02-26-2016

@pjcdn2005 wrote:

..... For those who are planning on sending a note...Are you planning on sending those only when an item does not tracking? It doesn't make much sense to send that info if there is tracking and the item was sent on time.

If I were to include a note about The Question, it would only make sense to do it on untracked parcels or light packets or lettermail. I have my own version of a seller's 'thank you' that goes with each shipment and this type of thing under discussion here would make sense to do only in certain circumstances. The copy I've suggested won't replace what I regularly send.

I think the only way we will settle the debate is to take it to Board Hour and ask if the wordsmithing done here crosses into dangerous feedback solicitation territory as far as ebay is concerned. I mean, it's not like it's some Big Secret. We're already discussing it publicly and for posterity.

musicyouneed · ‎02-27-2016

I like your note and will be sending it to select buyers. I will leave out the buyers have never left feedback for anyone. I will look at what the expected date is and where it is going. I probably will be sending it to buyers from small towns and international. I already enclose a note to everyone, this will just be an addition. I have already received 3 lates, 1 within Canada, 1 to the US which got forwarded to Kazakhstan, and 1 to a small town in Australia.

I have increased my handling time to 2 days and now I am starting to use 3 days. I have used economy shipping where I can and use small packet international for the US and light packet USA for all other international to get the longest times or no set time.

Thanks to all for spending the time to compose their notes and sharing with others. I really appreciate it.

zee-chan-jpn-books · ‎02-27-2016

Thank you all for posting your notes 😃

I'm just wondering... would you send the "late delivery" note to the buyer, if under Order Details it says "no estimate available"? This is for a book that I sold to a Greece buyer, the shipping service selected was "Economy Shipping from outside Canada". I assume this buyer won't see THE question anyway but I did send a note telling the buyer about it. Hopefully it didn't confuse the buyer or anything.

pjcdn2005 · ‎02-27-2016

If there is no estimated delivery date then they shouldn't see a question about it. It does look like economy international has a delivery estimate to Greece on your completed listings however there isn't one for the listings where you used small packet int'l ground.