eBay

gifts_of_elegance · ‎08-04-2013

I shipped item to shipping address on Sales Record and also PayPal payment. I have a stamped postal receipt from Canada Post that I have mailed it.

It turns out the address was wrong. It shows City: Buenos Aires. Looked complete to me. Turns out purchaser lives in the City of Tigre so item is lost.

eBay has now found in favor of the purchaser and refunded her payment.

Why am I responsible for a lost item when purchaser did not provide accurate shipping address?

rose-dee · ‎08-05-2013

@gifts_of_elegance wrote:
You are one fantastic employee. :-))) You tow the party line to perfection.

This is an unfair remark. It seems to me "marnotom!" was only trying to give you his reasonable opinion and some friendly advice. He didn't deserve the snide responses he got from you.

I agree that the situation was not your fault. However as sellers we know the rules of the eBay game, and we accept some risks. In this case, the rule may be stupid and inflexible, but it applies equally to all sellers.

This is one rule you would think eBay could easily revise to always find in favour of a seller where it could be shown an address was incorrect or incomplete. But if a buyer won't admit the address is wrong, how do you prove the address is wrong - the result is a stalemate, which is anathema to eBay. EBay has to be able to find in favour of one party or the other, and ultimately, whether it's fair or not, we sellers are responsible for delivery, so eBay chooses in favour of the buyer.

As an aside, if the item ended up going to some other address than your buyer's, assuming the recipient is honest, you should get it back at some point. And it should definitely come back if it was truly undeliverable (i.e. incomplete or erroneous address). In either case, your loss would be mitigated eventually.

In the hope of avoiding these issues, I have a prominent line in all my listings that asks buyers to check to be sure their shipping address is up to date on Paypal (whether buyers read it is another matter). I also check the buyer's eBay address against the Paypal address and send a note if I'm in doubt. Believe it or not, a quick input on Google can also sometimes reveal whether an address might be complete or incorrect, especially for areas of the world that might be problematic to begin with. But, like others, I'd say wrong addresses are very rare occurrences, and where I'm not prepared to pay for tracked shipping, I have to assume the risk.

After a sale, it's also easy to take a look at the Paypal transaction page to see if an address is "confirmed", as one poster has pointed out. This is a good way to decide from the outset whether you're willing to take the risk of shipping to an unconfirmed address - and at that point either contact the buyer to check the accuracy of the unconfirmed address, or offer to refund/cancel the transaction. As you're probably aware, "confirmed" addresses are matched up with credit card billing addresses, so they're pretty much guaranteed to be correct and complete. I believe you can also set your preferences to ship only to Paypal "confirmed" addresses, which would eliminate the hassle of dealing with erroneous buyer addresses altogether.

You mentioned the buyer initially admitted the address was wrong - if this was in an email, you might have something you can work with. Perhaps you could bring this up with the "Pinks" and see if anything can be done about your particular case, or try an appeal as 'marnotom!' suggested.

73rhc · ‎08-05-2013

I can understand how one can leave such remarks to other posters. They sometimes do not read the post properly, try to impose their way of thinking or sometimes just give bad advice...

Secondly, the archive like search that you recommend is great if you are doing casual sales. Someone who as a high volume doesn't have te time for this. Remember, that buyer wants his item yesterday!!!

gifts_of_elegance · ‎08-05-2013

marnotom! is not an active seller's user name and that is my opinion.

73rhc · ‎08-05-2013

You'll see a lot of posters hidding behind a different username.

cumos55 · ‎08-05-2013

and ... US sellers are looking for a one day handling time in order to be a TRSplus and get a 20 % discount.

So for them if the address is in question.... for more than 10 % of transactions... good-bye TRS plus.

Confirming the address for every sale will not work.

--------------------------------------------------

Sometimes I have done a search on Google... White pages for address and telephone.... and then reverse telephone,,, and sometimes more with the email address.

and then comes Mapquest...... where you can see where they actually live... and ultimately the house they live in.... provided Google does label that house with a correct address....

marnotom! · ‎08-05-2013

@gifts_of_elegance wrote:

Thank You for going to the trouble of composing this script for me. Unfortunately I won't be using it because I sell objects and it makes no difference what kind of home they go to. What I care about is that they get it fast, in undamaged condition and that it meets with their expectations. In return I expect my purchasers to treat me fair and to be honest.

I was hoping that you'd be able to adapt that script to your needs. My wife and I sell objects, too, and perhaps we have a radically different customer base than you, but a lot of our buyers seem to like the notion that they're giving their objects a home.

If you think a message that conveys the fact that a clear, correct address gets the item to them faster, then use that instead. I note that the address the buyer had in PayPal has "default" in it, which suggests to me that they had trouble adapting their address to what was likely American-style entry fields.

Think outside the jewellery box!

inuk_the_polar_bear · ‎08-05-2013

Tigre is in the Beunos Aires province. Kinda like New York, New York. What Marn says. Buyer was trying to adapt their address to the USA form.

That said, did you print Paypal postage and need to adapt the address, or, did you hand write everything? I have printed off the adrress and pasted it on to the CN22 so it is exactly as the buyer has displayed it.

73rhc · ‎08-05-2013

Tigre is just 28 km north of the city of Buenos Aires. Probably a suburb. And the buyer probably put that a the city as they are so close to the capital. Still not the sellers fault!

rose-dee · ‎08-05-2013

@73rhc wrote:
I can understand how one can leave such remarks to other posters. They sometimes do not read the post properly, try to impose their way of thinking or sometimes just give bad advice...

Secondly, the archive like search that you recommend is great if you are doing casual sales. Someone who as a high volume doesn't have te time for this. Remember, that buyer wants his item yesterday!!!

Sorry, but I think respect and courtesy is due to anyone who takes the time to post a thoughtful response, even if it's not advice the original poster wants. Giving an opinion and trying to provide helpful advice has nothing to do with imposing one's thinking on others. The OP is free to consider the advice and accept or reject it.

The online check I suggested took me 2 minutes, and I do this only if an address seems unusual or is in a country I don't regularly ship to. Almost all of my buyers have confirmed addresses anyway. I think 2 minutes spent on the occasional questionable address is fairly cheap insurance, especially for an item worth more than $50, whether a seller is making casual sales or dozens per day. I am a full-time seller, but I would take the time to check, especially where non-English addresses are concerned.

I agree with other posters that seeing "default" show up in the address is a red flag, meaning something may be missing or incorrect in the address, and in such a case I probably would have contacted the buyer before shipping.

Sometimes small things can be done in advance to avoid what seems later to have been an inevitable problem.

73rhc · ‎08-05-2013

If you have the time for this and are willing to do this. That is your prerogative. My question is, when are eBay and/or Paypal going to be accountable? And not just the seller!

73rhc · ‎08-05-2013

You've been a member since 2000. You have 512 in feedback. And you have 63 items listed. A full time seller? The OP has over 1100 items listed at this very moment!

gifts_of_elegance · ‎08-05-2013

Yes, I know.

I am a firm believer that your word has to mean something. If you hide in the shadows, just how much credibility do you have?

73rhc · ‎08-05-2013

Exactly! Kudos

pjcdn2005 · ‎08-05-2013

@marnotom! wrote:
Possibly, but it also serves the purpose of developing a relationship with the buyer. In our note, we actually also try to make a bit of conversation with the buyer, particularly if they're European or American. Maybe it depends on what one is selling/buying, but I tend to appreciate it when the seller goes out of his or her way to try to personalize the transaction. With our eBay sales, my wife and I have tried to approximate the experience of purchasing from a brick and mortar retailer, and many if not most of our buyers seem to like that if her feedback comments received as a seller are any indication.

I think that I go out of my way to personalize the transaction as well but I choose to do so after the purchase has been mailed. I'm sure that different methods work for different sellers...that's part of what makes ebay so interesting but also frustrating at times.

73rhc · ‎08-05-2013

I have repeatedly ask them to share their "real" identity. And so far, not one as had the decency to reply.

pjcdn2005 · ‎08-05-2013

@rose-dee wrote:
The online check I suggested took me 2 minutes, and I do this only if an address seems unusual or is in a country I don't regularly ship to. Almost all of my buyers have confirmed addresses anyway. I think 2 minutes spent on the occasional questionable address is fairly cheap insurance, especially for an item worth more than $50, whether a seller is making casual sales or dozens per day. I am a full-time seller, but I would take the time to check, especially where non-English addresses are concerned.

I agree with other posters that seeing "default" show up in the address is a red flag, meaning something may be missing or incorrect in the address, and in such a case I probably would have contacted the buyer before shipping.

Sometimes small things can be done in advance to avoid what seems later to have been an inevitable problem.

I never thought to mention that but I do that as well if the address seems a bit odd or if Paypal does not want to print the label. It can be very helpful.

Here is one example of me trying to confirm an address..

A couple of months ago a girl from Ireland purchased an item from me. The address consiisted of her name, a street name, city name and country. There was no street number to go with the street name though. I sent her a message through ebay and to her email address asking her to confirm her address but there was no response after a couple of days.I tried to find some sort of online Irish 'phone book' with her name and address but wasn't able to find anything like that. But when I googled her name I found out that someone with the same name and in the same area had a facebook account so I messaged here there. That has worked once before but in this case ...still no answer.

I already knew the town existed but finally thought of googling it to see what the population was and found out there were just a couple of hundred people that lived there. Since the item was less than $20, I sent it on the assumption that in such a small town, the post office would know who she was. Since they didn't contact me with an inr I assume they received it.

My point in telling the story is to show that it can take a lot of time to confirm the address and I don't think that it is feasible to onfirm every buyer's address.

gifts_of_elegance · ‎08-05-2013

@marnotom! wrote:
@gifts_of_elegance wrote:

Thank You for going to the trouble of composing this script for me. Unfortunately I won't be using it because I sell objects and it makes no difference what kind of home they go to. What I care about is that they get it fast, in undamaged condition and that it meets with their expectations. In return I expect my purchasers to treat me fair and to be honest.
I was hoping that you'd be able to adapt that script to your needs. My wife and I sell objects, too, and perhaps we have a radically different customer base than you, but a lot of our buyers seem to like the notion that they're giving their objects a home.

If you think a message that conveys the fact that a clear, correct address gets the item to them faster, then use that instead. I note that the address the buyer had in PayPal has "default" in it, which suggests to me that they had trouble adapting their address to what was likely American-style entry fields.

Think outside the jewellery box!

"Default" is often showing in foreign addresses. Not every country has "provinces" or even postal codes.

I did not mean to offend you and if I did I apologize.

My customer base is no different than any other sellers. They come from all walks of life.

I have no trouble thinking outside of the "jewelry box". I started my eBay business by selling craft magazines for 3 years under a different account. I had something like 5,000 feedbacks and I was a Power Seller. It was easy. Selling big ticket items is a different ball game., especially jewelry. Some have to have it even though they can't afford it. Then comes guilt. Irrate husbands. The need to get the money back. Saying "I never got it" is the best solution. No need to spend money on return postage, you get to keep the item and get your money back too. Having confirmed delivery tracking is no protection. They dispute it and get their money back. Sometimes they decide not to pay for the duty or just fail to claim the item. The items never come back. Most foreign countries sell off the unclaimed items with the excuse, "Nobody paid to have it shipped back.". The stories are endless.

gifts_of_elegance · ‎08-05-2013

@rose-dee wrote:
@gifts_of_elegance wrote:
You are one fantastic employee. :-))) You tow the party line to perfection.
This is an unfair remark. It seems to me "marnotom!" was only trying to give you his reasonable opinion and some friendly advice. He didn't deserve the snide responses he got from you.
I agree that the situation was not your fault. However as sellers we know the rules of the eBay game, and we accept some risks. In this case, the rule may be stupid and inflexible, but it applies equally to all sellers.

You are 100% right,. I was wrong and reacted badly. I have no excuse.

pjcdn2005 · ‎08-05-2013

@73rhc wrote:
Forgive me if this was already answered previously, but did Paypal say that the buyer's address was "confirmed". Years ago, Paypal used to send a message out to the seller to contact the buyer when his/her address wasn't confirmed. They have stopped doing this, so to me they should share in the blame along with the buyer for not providing the valid address. If the buyer's address is confirmed, how much more does the seller have to do. I think that we do enough work as it is. I'm on your side and you should not have lost your time listing this, your item, your money and possibly your reputation.

South American addresses have never been confirmed so your point isn't valid. The way that I remember it, Paypal would not consider a transaction eligible for seller protection if the address wasn't confirmed...which meant that we weren't covered for most or all overseas transactions.That changed a few years ago and confirmation wasn't requred in order for a transaction to be eligible for protection. As far as I know, Paypal does still confirm or at least verify addresses in some parts of the world but that reallly means nothing as I could join and confirm my address one month and then move the next month.Paypal would have no way of knowing that the address was no longer valid.

gifts_of_elegance · ‎08-05-2013

I

@inuk_the_polar_bear wrote:
Tigre is in the Beunos Aires province. Kinda like New York, New York. What Marn says. Buyer was trying to adapt their address to the USA form.

That said, did you print Paypal postage and need to adapt the address, or, did you hand write everything? I have printed off the adrress and pasted it on to the CN22 so it is exactly as the buyer has displayed it.

No, I did not print out the PayPal postage. My local postal outlet does not make any money off my mail if I don't buy the postage from them so I decided to go back to writing out the label and Customs forms by hand. I also feel better because now I have a stamped receipt in hand that proves I have mailed the item.