RE: German Packaging Act circumvention by German customers via parcel forwarding services?

A question for the ebay help / legal team and/or anyone else in the know - personally I'll be shutting down all sales into the German market to comply with the act, but this did cross my mind as many folks around the world do this now, and even some German customers did this with me during the worst covid shutdown times - use a parcel forwarding service to get around shipping blocks / countries with poor quality postal services.   Is it expected German customers will begin using parcel forwarding services in Florida, Delaware or Oregon (where they all seem to be located) to get around the act, and if so, what is ebay's response?  Will sellers be liable in any way for any contravention of the act if German customers begin doing this as a result of sellers ending sales to their country because of enactment of the act?  

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RE: German Packaging Act circumvention by German customers via parcel forwarding services?

my understanding is that German customs can follow up and if they determine you as the seller sold into their market while not compliant with their act and if not they can fine you.  And as we all know the brown stuff flows downhill so this will be left squarely at the sellers feet if people choose to flaunt it.  The fine amounts are significant and prohibitive.  Its your decision and you'll need to dig into it more on your own, but if it was me, I wouldnt even think about it - I'd cancel it and refund them.  I did that already once last week - a German buyer with a German address somehow got thru and paid on an item even with a block on the country, and I didnt even think about it, I just turned around and cancelled & refunded him.

 

The way I see it, people are playing with fire if they want to contravene something like this.  Germany means business, and my reading of it is that it is draconian in a typically harsh German way - play by our rules, or you dont play at all.  After reviewing it, my decision to stop selling to Germany took a matter of seconds.   It was simple for me: I bear no responsibility to a foreign country to subsidize their domestic programs & services.  This could have been handled with a simple user fee at point of sale but they didnt do that, they chose instead to turn this into a giant colossal mess for everyone, harming all our bottom lines in the process.  

 

Like all ideas with reasonable intentions, Germany's desire to address the legitimate issue of excessive packing waste (on this note, my mother in law yesterday got single bottle of nail polish she bought on amazon delivered in a giant 20 in x 20 in x 15 in box lol - looking at this thing, we were all like, this is ridiculous - she ordered a bottle of nail polish!! haahaha) is honourable and responsible, but theories never translate into practice very well and this has brought the law of unintended consequences into effect.  

 

Think of all the VAT they have forfeited already by enacting this law - 20% on how many untold thousands of transactions, poof! gone, right when the country is facing a major economic downturn not to mention a pretty stark winter if Russia turns off the taps.  My prediction is that this legislation will end up blowing up in Germany's face if it hasnt already, but that doesnt affect me, I've already washed my hands of it.  That was the intention of posting the topic in the first place, to help myself and fellow Canadian sellers better understand our obligations and responsibilities as sellers so we can make the best decisions about stuff like this for themselves.   

 

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RE: German Packaging Act circumvention by German customers via parcel forwarding services?

Has anyone tried creating a shipping label to Germany via eBay shipping?  Do they ask for a LUCID number or how does that work? 

Shippo knows nothing about this and I can create a label to Gemany with no issues.  If I were to acquire a LUCID number (.... which isn't even possible because I don't have the required registations for tax and some other number they require etc.  I tried.),  where would I put it?   There is nowhere to enter that information in on a shipping label.

What about Oma and Opa shipping a birthday present to their grandchild?  Will they get fined because they didn't include a LUCID number?

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RE: German Packaging Act circumvention by German customers via parcel forwarding services?


@ricarmic wrote:

velvet@ebay 

 

Hi again, my concern really remains because in my eyes, I only sold something to someone in the USA (or wherever the forwarding company is). I have NO idea that the buyer is from Germany.

 

My goal is simply to block ALL German buyers to avoid any problems, and I have specifically added Germany as a blocked country, so my corollary question is:

 

If I have specifically blocked Germany as a sell to country, does eBay use the address of the buyer, or the registration country of the buyer. If the registration country is used then I'm covered because it does not matter what address they give me or where because I've blocked the "registration country" as opposed to the shipping address.

 

I'm of the hope this is the case, that will solve all the potential problems for us!

 

Let me know when you can, and have a great weekend!!!


Hi @ricarmic! I'm sorry for the worry this seems to have caused you. If you've blocked Germany, then @recped is correct and anyone with a German shipping address will be blocked from purchasing your items.

 

If a German buyer happens to purchase your item and have it shipped to a mail forwarding center however, and rarer still, eBay happens to be asked for the seller to provide the LUCID ID, then at that time you will be contacted by eBay and will need to pursue the steps I referred to...getting in contact with the mail forwarding company for the LUCID ID. 

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RE: German Packaging Act circumvention by German customers via parcel forwarding services?


@hold-my-chawowah wrote:

Has anyone tried creating a shipping label to Germany via eBay shipping?  Do they ask for a LUCID number or how does that work? 

Shippo knows nothing about this and I can create a label to Gemany with no issues.  If I were to acquire a LUCID number (.... which isn't even possible because I don't have the required registations for tax and some other number they require etc.  I tried.),  where would I put it?   There is nowhere to enter that information in on a shipping label.

What about Oma and Opa shipping a birthday present to their grandchild?  Will they get fined because they didn't include a LUCID number?


@darak10 

@hold-my-chawowah 

 

The alternate possibility is goods will be returned at a sellers expense. Does the German postal system have time to inspect EVERY package coming in the country for correct packaging? Will it be random...luck of the draw? How would fines be enforced and collected? Whatever happens there will be a number of buyers possibly not getting their goods and the potential for mega INR's. All much to scary to even try to consider!!

 

-Lotz

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