Sellers input needed - past experience with paypal claims

[brett_the_tech]

Ok, so back on Feb 15th I had a buyer purchase a HTC cell phone, and right from day one I had a bad feeling with the sale, but not wanting negative feedback or any problems I went on with the sale. The buyer had a high feedback rating well into the 300's so I figured it will be ok.

The buyer purchased the item and right after their purchase I reciev an email "Give me FREE shipping and I will pay you"

Now my shipping fees were listed and I couldnt believe the buyer said this...I was nice enough to discount shipping $5 anyways.

The buyer purchased the item going into family day weekend, so the buyer was aware of a delay in getting the item shipped and understood.

2 days after the weekend the buyer files a claim stating "item not received" - that was Feb 20th. I provided the buyer a tracking number and Feb 21st the claim was closed and that was the last I heard of the buyer.

I verified package was delivered and everything seemed ok.

Since this purchase the buyer has made several more purchases over the last month - Im going by their feedback.

Today I receive an email from paypal and what do you know $234 on hold because the buyer filed a 2nd claim this time for "unauthorized purchase"

I did ship to a confirmed address and my thought is how can the buyer file an unauthorized claim 2months later. The buyer already asked / demanded free shipping, the buyer filed a claim saying the item never arrived and now a 3rd claim??

Alot of things just dont add up, and obviously I am extremely frustrated this hold of funds kinda screws things for me pretty good and Im more just wondering any sellers had bad buyers experiences with claims??? and will I get my money back give I shipped to the confirmed address, had online tracking and give the buyers past claim attempt??? None of this seems fair to a honest ebay seller...

[recped]

The Unauthorized Use chargeback was probably done directly with the buyers credit card company.

This type of chargeback is an easy win for you, the only thing you need to provide (even though you did this previously) is your proof of delivery. In reality for this type of claim you don't even need to prove delivery, proof of SHIPMENT is sufficient (presuming the original transaction was eligible for Seller Protection).

Provide the information and then follow up with a phone call after 48 hours, you should be able to get the hold released on the spot.

Alot of things just dont add up

Doesn't matter so don't even worry about it.

[brett_the_tech]

Yea true enough, I just thinking the along the same thing. I would give it the weekend and then call.

I assume all should be ok as I did provide tracking and shipped to a confirmed address and shipped it under the name exactly as shown in paypal...Although I did notice the buyer spelled their last name a little different on there shipping address. Not sure if they look at the name or just the address or if it matters, but I noticed when double checking shipping info.

[gifts_of_elegance]

Wrong!!!  There is lots to worry about!  I had a similar situation (actually worse) and I lost.

A buyer registered in USA purchased a Swarovski Crystal from me.  Shipping address was Thailand.  I did not pick up on it until buyer wrote asking for tracking number and delivery time.

It went with Small Packet Air so I had no tracking number.  ($160 item).  Next time I heard, PayPal pulled my funds as buyer claimed he did not authorized transaction and had his credit card company reverse payment.  I sent PayPal copies of his emails to prove that he did buy the item, so all of a sudden he "remembered" and claimed that he received damaged item.  PayPal advised me that I was no longer protected because item was damaged and that it would be returned.  I asked for tracking number of return and the story was then changed to "Not received.".  After months and months of emails and phone calls, I never got my money or the crystal back, not even my FVF.

I even tried to pursue the subject that he had a false registration in USA as he lived in Thailand,   Case ended with me loosing.

[recped]

Wrong!!!  There is lots to worry about!

No not wrong! You are describing an INR claim with no proof of delivery (or shipment) the OP is dealing with an Unauthorized Use claim where they have both proof of shipment (all that is needed) and proof of delivery.

Two completely different situations. You lost because you could not provide the required evidence, the OP will win because they can.

[brett_the_tech]

Yea I already learned that lesson. I used to always ship small packet air as it was cheaper and still insured. But under paypals policy "proof of shipping" simply means online tracking only.  I remember I attached a letter from Canada Post and I scanned the carbon copy receipt from Small Packet shipping and they denied both documents as proof. I asked a paypal rep why they had the option to attach files or fax info when responding to a claim and they pretty much told me it didnt matter what proof you submitted, if you didnt have online tracking you would lose the claim. 

I just wanted to make sure nobody had bad experiences while providing online tracking info. 

[pjcdn2005]

Yea I already learned that lesson. I used to always ship small packet air as it was cheaper and still insured. But under paypals policy "proof of shipping" simply means online tracking only.  I remember I attached a letter from Canada Post and I scanned the carbon copy receipt from Small Packet shipping and they denied both documents as proof. I asked a paypal rep why they had the option to attach files or fax info when responding to a claim and they pretty much told me it didnt matter what proof you submitted, if you didnt have online tracking you would lose the claim. 

I just wanted to make sure nobody had bad experiences while providing online tracking info. 

If the claim was for an item not received and filed through paypal (rather than a cc provider) your receipt would not have helped anyway since Paypal requires proof of delivery, not just proof of shipment.

[femmefan1946]

The disappearance of automatic $100 insurance against loss or damage in the mail with Small Packet shipping is a big problem.

Until recently, a seller could refund the unhappy customer /scamming illegitimatus, avoid the PP claim, and come out with his money.

Without the insurance, sellers must think seriously whether to go with a 'tracked' service, a thirdparty insurer like shipinsurance or whether to self-insure to cover claims.

[rose-dee]

Without the insurance, sellers must think seriously whether to go with a 'tracked' service, a thirdparty insurer like shipinsurance or whether to self-insure to cover claims.

It looks as if you use Auctiva (as do I).  Have you had any experience with their shipping service?  I've wondered if they only insure U.S. sellers.  I keep bypassing their advertisements, but I use Small/Light Packet a lot and am concerned about the $100 insurance being dropped. 

[pjcdn2005]

Auctiva's insurance program is handled by Shipsurance and Canadians are insured. I've used it a few times as it's convenient..just a couple of clicks when you want to insure a specific item.

It was less expensive to deal directly with SS on their own site, I don't know if that is still true.

I wouldn't set it up so that all of my items were automatically insured by Auctiva as I don't need insurance each time.

The one problem with shipsurance is that if you make a claim you need proof that the postal service received the package. If you use Paypal shipping for small and light packet you can get the po to stamp the bottom half of the paypal label when you mail the package.  I haven't tested that yet as I've never made a claim but apparently SS has said they would accept that as proof of shipping. It is a pain to have to go to the post office though as I would rather just drop the package in a postal box.

[brett_the_tech]

If the claim was for an item not received and filed through paypal (rather than a cc provider) your receipt would not have helped anyway since Paypal requires proof of delivery, not just proof of shipment.

I stated I had sent in a letter - the letter was proof of delivery....To file the insurance claim you had to file a trace. The trace came back as package delivered, which Canada Post  mailed me documentation. I sent that documentation to paypal

Bottom line paypal doesnt care what legal proof you have. If you dont have online tracking your not getting your money back. 

[brett_the_tech]

I am shocked and feel so sick to my stomach. Paypal refunded the money and the buyer now has my product and my money. Im on hold with paypal now, can i take legal action???