So now UPS is randomly charging US customer with duties and taxes for item shipped from Canada!

[arkh_angel]

About a month ago an USA customer who bought a drum for its printer (for 90$ CAD + shipping) contacted me saying UPS tried to charge them $146.25 USD in duties/taxes when they attempted delivery. Customer had refused the delivery and the package was on its way back to Canada. However, somewhere in transit, UPS re-attempted to do the delivery to the customer but that time without claiming any money. Then, a few days after, customer received an invoice by mail asking them to pay the aforementioned amount. They said they would contact UPS to fight the invoice and I have not heard back from them since then - that was 9 days ago. Nothing changed in the tracking data.

Today, another customer, who bought a computer for 311$ CAD plus shipping, received an email saying they owe $149.27 USD in duties and taxes to UPS.

Between these two incidents, I have sent numerous items by UPS, including some worth more, to the USA, without any comeback from customers. I know item worth under $800 USD sent to the USA were free from duties, and I haven't heard it changed lately, but I don't know what to think about this.

Anyone had a similar experience? Both labels were purchased using eBay's shipping service. Amounts charged are very similar. I know UPS have a reputation to charge fees over fees and - Oh even more fees - at fixed amounts, with only a small part of the final amount being taxes/duties. This time they've really pushed the ridiculous up a notch.

[ricarmic]

What country were the items from?? (or  what country was identified on the customs form?)

If no COO (country of origin) was included, I think I saw somewhere that they can be assumed by customs to be from China, and that's where the high duties came from....

[easoss]

First mistake is using UPS for anything. I refer to them as UP Stupid. The worst courier company by a country mile.

[arkh_angel]

Not sure about the first one. Saw nothing on the box so I either put USA or Canada. For the second package I remember I put China. That's my mistake I guess.

I just read that duties from China are now at 30% but also that there is no longer a minimum threshold amount before charging fees.

[arkh_angel]

100% agree. When shipping large items, it beats CPC/USPS prices flat out so...

FedEx isn't much better. Their shipping calculator on eBay generally gives about 17$ CAD shipping charges. In the end you get charged very random amounts due to charges being added for anything. It cannot even calculate Volumetric Equivalent. Total garbage.

Not sure if UPS does that, but if FedEx can't collect duties and taxes from the receiving end, they pay themselves directly from the shipper.

[ilikehockeyjerseys]

Second one was because of the China country of origin.

For the first one, do you put the full HTS number on your shipments and also include an invoice on the outside of the package?

(Some people suggest including 3 invoices. One for the carrier, one for customs, one for the customer, I usually just stick with 2 since the customer has it in their eBay account).

I use UPS for some US orders, and I also used it exclusively for a two or so week period starting in mid-May when it looked like Canada Post was at risk of a lockout. I have not noticed charges on any non-Chinese goods below the $800 de minimis. I went back and looked through them now because the tracking page will usually say if duties were paid, and none of them have duties.

So I can't confirm that this isn't an issue, but anecdotally I haven't experienced this on a reasonable sample of orders throughout late May. 

[recped]

The US$800 de minimis exemption is still in effect for all countries other than China/Hong Kong.

[fh991586]

That is the buyer's problem, and your responsibility is limited to fill the custom form accordingly.

[arkh_angel]

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@ilikehockeyjerseys wrote:

Second one was because of the China country of origin.

For the first one, do you put the full HTS number on your shipments and also include an invoice on the outside of the package?

(Some people suggest including 3 invoices. One for the carrier, one for customs, one for the customer, I usually just stick with 2 since the customer has it in their eBay account).

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No invoice or HTS number. It always worked without that for the US and continue to do so. I don't think they bother with that under $800 USD (until now for China/HK). For the International, I usually includes 3 invoices outside the package. Makes them happy.

[arkh_angel]

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@fh991586 wrote:

That is the buyer's problem, and your responsibility is limited to fill the custom form accordingly.

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Good point, but acting like that will just get shipment refused and return at my own expense, plus having to refund the original purchase price or send it back using another carrier. Not interesting at all and a waste of time/money.

[ilikehockeyjerseys]

Yes, I'm aware of that. I didnt mean to suggest otherwise in my post. Thanks. 

[ilikehockeyjerseys]

Include invoices, the HTS number, and the country of origin. 

This is a pure guess because it doesn't make sense that something not made in China would be charged the way you claimed it was - but if you didn't include the above and your item also didn't have a clear Made In Canada (or whatever country) marking, maybe it was inspected at some point along the journey and fees were assessed as if it was Chinese goods, because there was no proof that it wasn't.

Always include an HTS code+Invoice. I don't think you have to include a marking on your product (Made In Canada, etc) for Canada Post or UPS, it's mainly Stallion and Chit Chats who self clear that want that, but it probably couldn't hurt. 

I don't know the exact order of events or function of why your customer was charged, but my pure guess is that you could have avoided it happening by including the correct paperwork (HTS code+invoices on the outside of the package). 

If you get any definitive answer on this from UPS, let us know what happened. I would be interested to find out.

[fh991586]

If the buyer refused to pay these fees, he didn't complete his part of the transaction and you are not at fault. No refund to send, and no obligation to recover the shipment too. Why would it cost you anything?

[cottagewoman]

Here's the problem (stated elsewhere) - if the item was tariffed as CN goods by CBP, these tariffs fall under the emergencies act declared by Trump. These tariffs CANNOT be refunded. UPS automatically pays the tariff to have the item cross the border, where the tariff is collected. They then will seek to collect from the recipient of the package. If they refuse the package, then UPS has no way of having the tariff refunded to them. So, they bill the shipper for the tariff. This is all due to the nature of how the tariffs were applied under the emergencies act.

[fh991586]

Ok, I see the problem now.
So next time we ship something, we should use a credit card that we might be able to cancel right after, to stop any countercharge?

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

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@fh991586 wrote:

Ok, I see the problem now.
So next time we ship something, we should use a credit card that we might be able to cancel right after, to stop any countercharge?

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@fh991586 

You could try to ask for a refund for using your CC but would they credit? Possibly, but not likely. Basically you authorized them to charge you for the original shipping. (Aren't refunds for just unauthorized charges??) If you used UPS you should have the option to state destroy vs return when an item is refused. That might be the easiest work around...if item is low value. If it goes out with eBay labels its marked at bottom of label return at shippers expense and that would be any charges involved. 

[lud-4367]

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@easoss wrote:

First mistake is using UPS for anything. I refer to them as UP Stupid. The worst courier company by a country mile.

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To be fair, ups and fedex too, their domestic shipping work fine. They actually deliver parcels unlike canada post. It's the international shipping you should avoid whether it's inbound or outbound. 

[reallynicestamps]

UNDELIVERABLE ITEMS
https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy...

https://www.ebay.ca/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy?...
 And a conversation with an eBay pink.

An ethical seller would refund the payment, less shipping costs, eBay fees, and international payment processing fees.
But it's my belief that eBay will not require any refund.
 
Hi @femmefan1946! You're correct in that a refused package is on the buyer and not the sellers responsibility to refund. As long as tracking shows the package was refused, then we would side with a seller if the buyer opened an Item Not Received claim. 
 
I agree that I would not withhold all the money, but it is up to the seller if they would like to withhold shipping, refund the buyer entirely, or keep it all. If the seller is okay with refunding the buyer entirely and being out the shipping costs, then they can cancel the transaction using the buyer requested option since in essence, they did by refusing the package. If the seller wants to retain the shipping costs, then they can message the buyer a heads up (not a requirement but a nice thing to do) and then refund them partially through this flow here. 
Velvet,

[reallynicestamps]

At this point, most Americans should know that the Trump Tariff exists, even if they are not clear on details.

It becomes their responsibility to learn those details before they order for import.

Trump put a federal sales tax on imported goods, new and used, probably illegally , certainly erratically.

But it remains the importer who pays the tariff.

And apparently while there is a duty free exemption for all countries (except China) of $800, the US customs officers are not treating the tariff as a duty.

Either your buyer refuses it, and it comes back to you, or he pays the duty and gets his machine.

If it comes back to you, you  can refund or not as you wish, remembering that there could be a credit card chargeback in future, but the refund could be payment less your expenses.

[randomchans]

How was UPS able to email your second customer??

As far as I know sellers don't have access to buyer emails (just an encrypted ebay email) so just curious how UPS managed to email him