Speculation: 'Change Could Mean Buyers Pay eBay Instead of Sellers'

[momcqueen]

Hopefully, this will not come to pass. http://www.ecommercebytes.com/C/blog/blog.pl?/pl/2017/11/1512050577.html

[rose-dee]

I honestly am not at all surprised that this may be what eBay has been working towards.  More and more, they've been attempting to present a one-source retail shopping experience, reflected in the landing ads and a number of policies over the past 2 years or so.  

For example, it used to be that clicking on items highlighted on the landing page would lead to a seller's listing or listings.  Now, if you click on one of eBay's ads for whatever shiny new product is being featured, what you get is a page full of the same or similar products to choose from, i.e. as if you're shopping online at Sears, etc., but at different price points and discounts.   

I think eBay would prefer to end up with sellers behind a screen and essentially irrelevant to the shopping experience here, so that buyers will have the impression they're purchasing from one store, with one set of policies and just a lot of different product options.  To a very new eBay buyer, this must actually already be how the site seems.  

I can't imagine how this idea of paying eBay directly would be made to work from a practical standpoint, but where there's a will at eBay, there will be a way.  Perhaps we'll all be transformed from merchants to consignors, paid a cut of the selling price, less fees, less..., less... 

There would obviously be serious issues involved for us as sellers, not the least of which would probably involve loss of control over how we list our wares.  And then the income tax complications, good grief. 

For my own situation, remaining on eBay has become a matter of how long I can hold out under how much pressure.  I accept the writing on the wall that sooner or later they'll want to dispose of my ilk.  

[momcqueen]

I can see from the standpoint of ebay as a corporation the reason(s) they might like to do this, but from the standpoint of the seller, anything that delays the amount of time it takes for me to receive my money in a usable form is going to be something I strategically avoid. 

One of the only strengths of selling here as opposed to elsewhere is that when I'm paid for something, I have the money immediately to use for postage on said item, and to use to buy new inventory at any online merchant from which I see fit to do so. If ebay changed this, and I had to wait two weeks to collect payment for items that were sold, or even longer as if I were on probation against the money back guarantee. this would be a major sore point for me. 

I think a shift as significant as this would push many sellers who have one foot out the door, all the way out the door.

And I have a very difficult time imagining the really big sellers, the stores that are their own stores already with a presence on ebay, and the brands that ebay is trying to court, would stand for this kind of new system. Like SneakerCity would say, "Oh sure, we'll sell and ship our inventory across North America and you, ebay, can just hold on to that money of ours for safekeeping for two four weeks, no problem. We don't mind. We don't like money."

And that doesn't even address the issue of technical credibility. Who does ebay have on-hire that could be trusted with a task that important? Paypal is as reliable as they come and even paypal bones it up from time to time whereas ebay glitches more often than it doesn't. 

At this point, it's speculative. Let's all hope it stays that way,

[ricarmic]

I have lived through this on another site I was selling on.

They tried to insulate the buyers from the sellers, and the money went to them until a certain amount of time passed (to make sure the transaction was ok I guess but it was not nearly long enough for that).

The problems I at least experienced:

-buyers could not ask questions of me

-I could not reliably contact buyers

-multi item buyers were overpaying shipping, there was no option to adjust it or even fix it because the transaction was with the company, not me

-problems after the delay period became a problem for the company and not me (so someone deciding down the road they had a problem became a problem with the company and not me, which wasn't really all that bad as I could wash my hands of it so to speak (I never experienced any problems so don't know for sure))

That site had other problems and expired (was purchased by another company which resumed working "normally" like we experience here).

[cumos55]

Should only apply to new sellers on eBay.....

[mrdutch1001]

I was one of those sellers that left Etsy because of the Etsy Payments thing that was forced on all sellers.... I was no longer selling much on that venue so leaving was not a difficult decision to make and I would not hesitate to give up eBay for those same reasons...I no longer sell enough on eBay to warrant being forced into that same situation again...

[ricarmic]

The "held money" aspect wasn't really a problem/concern in my case. (I normally maintain enough in PAYPAL to cover at least the largest transaction along with some other smaller ones so I force a "held money" on myself anyway)

It was very similar to the situation here for new sellers, the funds were simply held for a number of days by the company before they could be withdrawn.

After that they were easily withdrawable.....

[silverpinups]

For my own situation, remaining on eBay has become a matter of how long I can hold out under how much pressure.  I accept the writing on the wall that sooner or later they'll want to dispose of my ilk.  

Yes, I agree my time on eBay is limited.... That's why I have my own website, I just hope I can last long enough for the website to self sufficient and I can break away from eBay for good.

eBay needs to focus on advertising their uniqueness in the marketplace instead of trying to replicate another selling platform.

Their failing at ecommerce with the big "A" and others companies grabbing more and more of the market share every year.

Their greediness and lack of focus may slowly drive themselves out of business.   

[recped]

I don't put much stock in Ina's great revelations, her track record isn't great.

That said, this is how Amazon, Wal-Mart, Target, Newegg and most of the larger marketplaces work for their third-party sellers.

I would have no problem at all with this type of system presuming the costs are the same as what sellers currently pay to PayPal or whatever payment processor they currently use.

If they do go this way I can only hope the BBL and Public feedback for buyers goes away at the same time.

I firmly believe that the mistreatment of buyers by a small segment of sellers is a significant factor in eBay's stagnant growth.

[reallynicestamps]

I take it that you hope that Buyer Feedback goes away- which I agree is so meaningless as to be misleading.

I don't understand why you would want the Blocked Buyer Lists to disappear.

[momcqueen]

---

@recped wrote:
....I firmly believe that the mistreatment of buyers by a small segment of sellers is a significant factor in eBay's stagnant growth.

---

Yes. Now let's isolate that thought for a moment. Those sellers aren't hard to find. I think most of the good sellers already know where to start looking for the bad sellers, the question to me has always surrounded the way ebay cannot seem to find them fast enough. Or it's perhaps not a question of fast enough but one of balancing the short-term revenue with the long-term damage. Does this quarter concern itself with some other quarter two years from now? Four years? How long does an average CEO last? 

To follow the words of silverpinups from earlier in the post, ebay isn't The River. It's its own thing, and should have been promoting the uniqueness of this relentlessly instead of trying to make excuses for it and hammering round sellers into square pegs. If ebay wants to create a new experience for buyers and sellers, maybe they should launch a new site that's perfect in the way they want it to be, and lure sellers and buyers to it, until it's so wonderful and pure that there's no need for this one. 

[mrdutch1001]

Re: Etsy Payments policy: The "held" funds would not have been a big issue for me...the issue was no longer having the choice for transactions to go to PayPal. There was no longer that choice to have all funds go to PayPal. Sellers were forced to sign up for Etsy Payments & have a bank account. My PayPal funds are used for shipping labels, online purchases,etc so the funds had no need to go to a bank account. Not being a high volume seller there was never any need for funds to go to a bank account.

[recped]

---

@reallynicestamps wrote:

I take it that you hope that Buyer Feedback goes away- which I agree is so meaningless as to be misleading.

I don't understand why you would want the Blocked Buyer Lists to disappear.

---

Some sellers add names to their BBL willy nilly for what in my opinion is often nothing more than unwarranted paranoia or spite. When buyers find themselves blocked for no reason they can determine (unlike being blocked for non-payment strikes where the reason is stated clearly) a portion of them throw up their hands and go to all the other online places to shop where there is no such thing as a bbl.

I don't like shopping with a merchant who treats me like a thief for asking a question or because I gave a bad seller a negative 6 months ago, or I have a user name a seller doesn't like or because of any one of dozens of other dubious reasons buyers get added to BBL's.

When dsr's first started there were many sellers who were going to great lengths to figure out which buyer gave them a 4 rating instead of a 5 and would then block them for that reason......ridiculous! It did nothing but alienate good buyers with money to spend.

As far as buyer feedback, it's an easy way to say thank you to a buyer and the number itself may make a buyer feel good as it goes up but as a method for determining the likelihood of a smooth transaction it's pretty useless. Even back in the day when one could leave negs for buyers so many negs were left as retaliation by sellers that the negs meant nothing in many cases and simply led to a gross overreaction by other sellers.

As a merchant you have to treat buyers as the gold that they are, treating them badly is one of the prime reasons that eBay is not seeing the growth that other ecommerce sites are achieving. Back in the day when options were very limited we (eBay and sellers) could get away with it, that is no longer the case, there is very little available on eBay that can't be found elsewhere.

To be absolutely clear I am not blaming eBay sellers for all that has gone poorly with eBay over the past 10 years or so but they definitely are responsible for some of it.

[ricarmic]

This is a good point, that was another drawback of that system, the money was not usable for anything (unless one purchased stuff from that particular site).

I'm lucky that I'm a stamps on the box kinda guy, so I don't use any of the online shipping labels....

At least they did let me pull the funds out into my PAYPAL account....

[dutchman48]

---

@recped wrote:

---

@reallynicestamps wrote:

I take it that you hope that Buyer Feedback goes away- which I agree is so meaningless as to be misleading.

I don't understand why you would want the Blocked Buyer Lists to disappear.

---

Some sellers add names to their BBL willy nilly for what in my opinion is often nothing more than unwarranted paranoia or spite. When buyers find themselves blocked for no reason they can determine (unlike being blocked for non-payment strikes where the reason is stated clearly) a portion of them throw up their hands and go to all the other online places to shop where there is no such thing as a bbl.

I don't like shopping with a merchant who treats me like a thief for asking a question or because I gave a bad seller a negative 6 months ago, or I have a user name a seller doesn't like or because of any one of dozens of other dubious reasons buyers get added to BBL's.

When dsr's first started there were many sellers who were going to great lengths to figure out which buyer gave them a 4 rating instead of a 5 and would then block them for that reason......ridiculous! It did nothing but alienate good buyers with money to spend.

As far as buyer feedback, it's an easy way to say thank you to a buyer and the number itself may make a buyer feel good as it goes up but as a method for determining the likelihood of a smooth transaction it's pretty useless. Even back in the day when one could leave negs for buyers so many negs were left as retaliation by sellers that the negs meant nothing in many cases and simply led to a gross overreaction by other sellers.

As a merchant you have to treat buyers as the gold that they are, treating them badly is one of the prime reasons that eBay is not seeing the growth that other ecommerce sites are achieving. Back in the day when options were very limited we (eBay and sellers) could get away with it, that is no longer the case, there is very little available on eBay that can't be found elsewhere.

To be absolutely clear I am not blaming eBay sellers for all that has gone poorly with eBay over the past 10 years or so but they definitely are responsible for some of it.

---

Maybe Ebay should treat their sellers better and get rid of the scam buyers before they run good sellers off.

[dutchman48]

---

@ricarmic wrote:
This is a good point, that was another drawback of that system, the money was not usable for anything (unless one purchased stuff from that particular site).

I'm lucky that I'm a stamps on the box kinda guy, so I don't use any of the online shipping labels....

At least they did let me pull the funds out into my PAYPAL account....

---

What would happen if you sold on multiple ID's in different currencies and want money to end up in different banks or Paypal accounts?

Or would Ebay make a bunch of money off all the conversion fees.

I sell on .com and .ca. I have US dollars go to my US Paypal account and Canadian dollars go to my Can Paypal account.

US Paypal goes to my US bank and Can Paypal to my Can bank.

If I can't buy things in each currency on each site, or have money go to which Paypal account or bank I want,I will tell Ebay where to stick it real quick.

[femmefan1946]

but as a method for determining the likelihood of a smooth transaction it's pretty useless.

Much more useful is the Feedback Left For Others by buyers.

But even so, sellers don't usually get a chance to read the FB of their customers.

More than 80 % of  listings are Fixed Price, and many/most of the rest Auction with Buy It Now, or sniped Auctions.

The seller meets her buyer when he pays -- or doesn't.

Feedback was useful in soothing nervous buyers in the early days of the internet, when we received personal cheques a week after purchase and shipped before they cleared the bank. And all too many of those bounced and bounced and bounced.

Which is why we got BidPay and eventually Paypal.

[rose-dee]

I have to agree with 'recped' about Ina Steiner's revelations over the years.  Quite often her facts and conclusions are also incorrect.  I think her articles should be taken with a liberal sprinkling of salt. 

One example from this article: Ina is wrong about Etsy not permitting Paypal payments, there is no problem for a seller to do so.  So although sellers have complained about being "forced" to use Etsy Payments, the fact is that the system gives buyers additional options for using their credit cards if they prefer not to have a Paypal account.  In my book, anything that facilitates a sale and makes payment easier for buyers is a good thing.  

It's true that there is a lapse between payment by the buyer and access to those funds by the seller, but usually this is no more than a couple of days (and in those cases shipping charges are handled differently, taken directly from the funds paid by the buyer and then paid by the seller in the monthly billing). It actually works quite well, and I think it's only sellers who suffer from poor planning and a need to get their hands on their cash instantly who haven't understood the advantages of the system as a whole.  This is quite a different scenario from what Steiner describes as eBay's purported plans, effectively separating buyers from their sellers.  

Further, contrary to Ina Steiner's statement that Etsy is the "merchant of record", in the Etsy Payments system it's always completely clear to the buyer that she is purchasing from the individual seller and dealing with that seller as the vendor, including any follow-up from the transaction, returns, refunds, etc.  The other advantage to the process is the handling of VAT completely by the site, streamlining buyer transactions and relieving sellers of the nasty business of having to get involved with foreign tax collection and remittance. 

Ina's articles have tended over the years toward "sky is falling" pronouncements, so I generally don't get too worked up by what I read there.  As I said, I wouldn't be at all surprised at eBay considering some sort of central payment system, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. 

[mrdutch1001]

"So although sellers have complained about being "forced" to use Etsy Payments, the fact is that the system gives buyers additional options for using their credit cards if they prefer not to have a Paypal account.  In my book, anything that facilitates a sale and makes payment easier for buyers is a good thing."

Yes, the Etsy Payments system allows for additional payment methods for both buyer & seller, even though buyers could still use their credit card through PayPal without having a PayPal account.

 However you look at it, sellers were indeed "forced" to use Etsy Payments if they were to continue selling on Etsy. The choice to have PayPal only payments on Etsy was removed. Sellers who did not sign onto having Etsy Payments had their shops suspended and could not resume selling or have a shop on Etsy without signing up for & accepting Etsy Payments.

Sellers should be able to choose which payment methods they  accept.  eBay Sellers can still accept other than PayPal payments methods if they so choose, they just cannot advertise or mention that fact anywhere on eBay.

Sellers should have that choice of what payment methods they will accept on the sale of their goods.

Many online retail sellers DO NOT accept PayPal payments, it's Credit Card only...their choice.

PayPal only payments has worked very well for me on eBay for many, many years...

PayPal payments worked well for me for the 8 years I was a seller on Etsy. Etsy removed that choice. My choice was to not accept the Etsy Payment system. My choice was to continue as a PayPal only seller. Therefore, I am no longer a seller on Etsy as I cannot agree to their terms of use, their terms that I must sign up for and accept the Etsy Payments system.

[mrdutch1001]

"One example from this article: Ina is wrong about Etsy not permitting Paypal payments, there is no problem for a seller to do so.  So although sellers have complained about being "forced" to use Etsy Payments, the fact is that the system gives buyers additional options for using their credit cards if they prefer not to have a Paypal account.  In my book, anything that facilitates a sale and makes payment easier for buyers is a good thing." 

Yes it is true having additional payment methods on a selling venue can be good for both buyer & seller. However, the type of payments accepted by a seller for the sale of their goods should remain their choice. Many online retail sellers do not accept PayPal - it's credit card only - that retail seller's choice and so it should be...However, that choice was removed by Etsy.

Yes, it's true PayPal payments are still permitted, but only if sellers also accept Etsy payments. Sellers were indeed "forced" to use Etsy Payments if they were to continue selling on that venue. The choice to have PayPal only was removed. Sellers there had to sign up for and accept Etsy Payments system to be able to continue to have a shop there and to sell there. Sellers who did not sign up for and accept Etsy Payments had their shop and selling privileges suspended and could not continue as a seller on that venue unless they signed up for and accepted the Etsy payments system. PayPal ONLY gone. Choice GONE