The mechanics of Best Offer: now what? Buyer sent three offers, I countered the first, declined two

[momcqueen]

I need some assistance around the mechanics of a Best Offer, please.

I'm selling an item, Make an Offer is enabled. On sale right now for $146 plus free domestic shipping (not that it matters) but the buyer sent one offer, I countered with my lowest acceptable price which is $130. Then he sent two more offers which I declined because they were lower than that. I didn't counter those. 

So.... what happens now? 

I am to understand the buyer is still interested, he sent me a terse message which stated so, saying he would pay $130 with free shipping.

Can he still go back and 'accept' the counteroffer I sent him? Or was it immediately overwritten by him sending two more lower offers?

What is supposed to happen here next? I'm not intimately familiar with the mechanics of Best Offer. Not as a buyer nor seller. Is the buyer stuck with paying $146? Am expected as the seller to revise the listing for only his pleasure to purchase? What time period is supposed to lapse before he is allowed to send another offer? Is there etiquette to uphold? 

I'm unclear.

Thanks.

p.s. Prior to this, my last Best Offer was for $10 CAD from a buyer in UK yesterday who was making an offer on something with a sale price of $170. I flat-out declined that one, not bothering to counter at all. People! All my auto-declines were overwritten last week when I changed my handling time to 'close' my store for two days. Changing the handling time does that as a side effect. It's a thing. 

[i.am.vivian]

Since there are 2 sides to every story, if anyone wants to look at the eBay policy (if it is still valid and we don't need to go to the dotcom to check which policy might have supplanted these) they are here:

http://pages.ebay.ca/help/sell/best-offer.html

http://pages.ebay.ca/help/buy/best-offer.html

[ypdc_dennis]

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@ricarmic wrote:
I think eventually the buyer can restart the offering process, maybe not till over 30 days later?

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When a GTC listing renews or an item is relisted the offer counter is reset and all potential buyers start from zero again.

[amandabalmain]

Low ball offers and nickel and dimer's are out there and can become quite amendment -- on the Best Offers listings -- set a minimum reject price, it will save for some headache 🙂

[rose-dee]

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@amandabalmain wrote:
Low ball offers and nickel and dimer's are out there and can become quite amendment -- on the Best Offers listings -- set a minimum reject price, it will save for some headache 🙂

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That is the easiest, most automated way of dealing with low offers, but it may not necessarily be the most strategic.  See my post #19 above.  

There is also the danger that too many declines shown on an offer history can actually turn away reasonable buyers who might otherwise consider making an offer.  I think it's better for a potential buyer to see a whole lot of "offer accepted" notations on the FB history rather than a whole lot of "declined" on listings.  

[pjcdn2005]

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rose-dee wrote

There is also the danger that too many declines shown on an offer history can actually turn away reasonable buyers who might otherwise consider making an offer.  I think it's better for a potential buyer to see a whole lot of "offer accepted" notations on the FB history rather than a whole lot of "declined" on listings.  

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I think that it's even more of a turn off to buyers when a seller does not reply which means that they cannot 'safely' make an offer or purchase the item from another seller for 48 hours.  Is that a way way of punishing a buyer for making an offer that was too low?

[momcqueen]

The buyer has returned this morning asking if we have a deal. I told him/her that two other offers were made on the item over the weekend which have also been countered. At what point can this buyer resubmit an offer? Is it 48 hours? Does anyone remember or know? 

[rose-dee]

If he's used up his 3 offers, he won't be able to make another until the item is relisted.  

You have three choices -- if the item is GTC, wait until it relists, or if you want to close the transaction immediately, tell the buyer you'll end the listing and relist it (with Best Offer) so he can start over.  

A less attractive option would be to agree that if the buyer purchases it at the full price you'll refund him the difference.  Of course that means the buyer will have to trust you, and you'll be stuck with paying the excess FVFs on the difference.  However you won't lose any watchers or other attached data on your listing just in case he changes his mind again.  

[momcqueen]

It's a Good Till Cancelled listing.

I don't feel particularly compelled to sell it to this buyer for the amount he/she begrudgingly agreed to accept after using the allotted three offers to submit lower amounts than my counteroffer. It is the only one of its kind as a bundle, the only one in Canada, it has multiple watchers and multiple offers. I have little doubt that it will sell for more than he wants to pay between now and Christmas.

Thanks for the info. 

[rose-dee]

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

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rose-dee wrote

         There is also the danger that too many declines shown on an offer history can actually turn away reasonable buyers who might otherwise consider making an offer.  I think it's better for a potential buyer to see a whole lot of "offer accepted" notations on the FB history rather than a whole lot of "declined" on listings.  

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"I think that it's even more of a turn off to buyers when a seller does not reply which means that they cannot 'safely' make an offer or purchase the item from another seller for 48 hours.  Is that a way way of punishing a buyer for making an offer that was too low?"

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Sure, it's true that it might make the buyer think twice about making ludicrously or insulting low offers in the future, to any seller.  Is that necessarily a bad thing?  I don't think so.  Besides, the buyer can withdraw his first offer if he really wants to go elsewhere.  

I look on buyers who make offers equal to a small fraction of the list price as time-wasters.  These aren't people looking for a great price, or a fair deal.  They are opportunists, as 'mj' rightly maintains, looking to score from -- or at worst, prey on -- an inexperienced or nervous seller.  The something-for-next-to-nothing crowd.  

We all know the type.  All it takes is one success in a thousand to make their continued random efforts worthwhile.  I'm really not interested in selling to this type, nor do I care if they may have to wait 48 hours to victimize another seller or safely make an offer elsewhere.  Tough.  Let them cry me a river. 

What's the use of potentially making yourself and your listing look bad (by declining) in order to accommodate someone who is, truth be told, probably hoping he can rip you off?  At the very least, such offers can be aggravating or upsetting to some sellers, so why engage with them at all?  

My point was that I only use this strategy for such ridiculously low offers that I would otherwise be immediately declining anyway.  Why decline and look cantankerous, when I can make the hit and run offer work for me?  In any event, if the buyer really is sincere and keen on the item, he can come back, withdraw his original offer (or wait until the old one expires), and make a new one -- at a more reasonable price. 

Incidentally, these kinds of bottom-skimming offers probably only happen for me once in a year, if that.  The vast majority of buyers make offers on my items that I'm happy to consider (and counter if necessary). 

[rose-dee]

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@mjwl2006 wrote:

It's a Good Till Cancelled listing.

I don't feel particularly compelled to sell it to this buyer for the amount he/she begrudgingly agreed to accept after using the allotted three offers to submit lower amounts than my counteroffer. It is the only one of its kind as a bundle, the only one in Canada, it has multiple watchers and multiple offers. I have little doubt that it will sell for more than he wants to pay between now and Christmas.

Thanks for the info. 

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You're very welcome.  I can understand your decision -- if this is a particularly rare or attractive item, you'll have other offers.  Which is why, if you get another low-ball but not ludicrous offer, just make one counter-offer, then let it stand as pending.  It may attract more serious purchasers.  

Best of luck!  We all need a bit of a boost after so many months of drought. 

[sylviebee]

I get more low ball offers than in the past.

Maybe one reason buyers make these low offers it because $XXX.XX or Best Offer states or at least implies that the seller wants to get a certain amount of money and if she can't get that she'll take the best offer.

Sometimes the Best Offer is $1.

So, perhaps they think they're just doing as the listing suggests.

I no longer go to auctions but when I did it wasn't uncommon for wonderful valuable items to sell for a few dollars when there was only one bidder.

Perhaps some buyers see the listing that way too.

[rose-dee]

sylviebee wrote:

So, perhaps they think they're just doing as the listing suggests.

 I no longer go to auctions but when I did it wasn't uncommon for wonderful valuable items to sell for a few dollars when there was only one bidder.

Perhaps some buyers see the listing that way too. 

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I honestly don't think that naïveté on the part of low-ball buyers is the likely explanation.  Unlike live auctions, buyers on eBay can see the BIN price right up front.  

This is why the example of live auctions isn't comparable.  Even though live auctions do frequently publish anticipated values of items ahead of time, the only way to get a truly valuable item for a few dollars is if the seller/auction house starts the bidding at a low enough price (far below actual value) to begin with.  That is rarely the case with Best Offer listings.  

In any event, a majority of live auctions involve estates, re-possessions, etc., where the owner or assignee is often happy to get pennies on the dollar, after auctioneer's fees, to unload the items.  That's a different scenario from the situation of a lot of eBay sellers (like 'mj' and myself), who need to turn a profit.   

I really don't think people who come along and offer, say $20 on a Best Offer item listed with BIN of $200 are just innocently or stupidly doing as the listing suggests.  They are opportunistic, some are perhaps even re-sellers, hoping the seller is either inexperienced or desperate enough to jump at any offer.  

[ricarmic]

Personally I think they're hoping for autoaccept typos, where a seller mis-types the auto accept amount.

For example if I have a $500 item and I mean to put in $400 but inadvertently put in $4 for the autoaccept, a loballer putting in $5 would win it and I'd be stuck having to honour it.

I have to believe that they've been rewarded for putting stupid offers in at some point or they suffer from eternal extreme-optimism......

[sylviebee]

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@rose-dee wrote:

@sylviebee wrote:

So, perhaps they think they're just doing as the listing suggests.

 I no longer go to auctions but when I did it wasn't uncommon for wonderful valuable items to sell for a few dollars when there was only one bidder.

Perhaps some buyers see the listing that way too. 

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I honestly don't think that naïveté on the part of low-ball buyers is the likely explanation.  Unlike live auctions, buyers on eBay can see the BIN price right up front.  

This is why the example of live auctions isn't comparable.  Even though live auctions do frequently publish anticipated values of items ahead of time, the only way to get a truly valuable item for a few dollars is if the seller/auction house starts the bidding at a low enough price (far below actual value) to begin with.  That is rarely the case with Best Offer listings.  

In any event, a majority of live auctions involve estates, re-possessions, etc., where the owner or assignee is often happy to get pennies on the dollar, after auctioneer's fees, to unload the items.  That's a different scenario from the situation of a lot of eBay sellers (like 'mj' and myself), who need to turn a profit.   

I really don't think people who come along and offer, say $20 on a Best Offer item listed with BIN of $200 are just innocently or stupidly doing as the listing suggests.  They are opportunistic, some are perhaps even re-sellers, hoping the seller is either inexperienced or desperate enough to jump at any offer.  

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It's not about being naive.  It doesn't entirely explain why some buyers make crazy low offers, but there's more than just a grain of truth in it for antique and vintage items.

The reason shoppers keep doing it is because some sellers also think that way and have no idea what the items they're listing are really worth.

[rose-dee]

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@sylviebee wrote:

It's not about being naive.  It doesn't entirely explain why some buyers make crazy low offers, but there's more than just a grain of truth in it for antique and vintage items.

The reason shoppers keep doing it is because some sellers also think that way and have no idea what the items they're listing are really worth.

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That's precisely what I was saying -- please re-read my post above.  These are opportunistic buyers taking advantage of -- or, if you prefer, preying upon -- inexperienced sellers.  

As I said, random reinforcement works.  One good score in a whole lot of attempts makes it well worthwhile for such buyers to continue making ludicrous offers.  

In this respect, I'd say the watchword is: Seller Beware. 

[rose-dee]

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@ricarmic wrote:
Personally I think they're hoping for autoaccept typos, where a seller mis-types the auto accept amount.

For example if I have a $500 item and I mean to put in $400 but inadvertently put in $4 for the autoaccept, a loballer putting in $5 would win it and I'd be stuck having to honour it.

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That's a possible explanation for it too, although I imagine it occurs less frequently than sellers who simply don't understand the Best Offer system, jump the gun at any offer, or are becoming frantic for a sale, get over-excited, and feel compelled to accept anything.  

I suppose you could say that there is something about such behaviour (making ludicrously low offers) that hopes to prey on human psychology.  What seller doesn't feel just a little excited to have an offer, any offer?  I'd say there's also an element of thrill-seeking on the buyer's side as well.  Practically worth a PhD thesis, eh?

[sylviebee]

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@rose-dee wrote:

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That's precisely what I was saying -- please re-read my post above.  These are opportunistic buyers taking advantage of -- or, if you prefer, preying upon -- inexperienced sellers.  

________________________________________________

Not precisely what I was saying.  

The way that works:  Someone buys an item at a Garage Sale for a dollar or two because it looks interesting.

Not knowing what it is other than a pretty item, the seller goes fishing and posts it on eBay for $500 or B.O. 

An eBay buyer recognizes the item and offers $100 and the seller eagerly accepts the offer.

That buyer re-lists it appropriately and sells it for $800.

Who's the opportunistic buyer?

[rose-dee]

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@sylviebee wrote:

The way that works:  Someone buys an item at a Garage Sale for a dollar or two because it looks interesting.

 Not knowing what it is other than a pretty item, the seller goes fishing and posts it on eBay for $500 or B.O. 

 An eBay buyer recognizes the item and offers $100 and the seller eagerly accepts the offer.

That buyer re-lists it appropriately and sells it for $800.

Who's the opportunistic buyer? 

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Well, I really don't think that sort of thing is the usual explanation for low-ball offers on eBay.  Today, thanks to all the "Pickers" and "Antiques Roadshow" programmes, people are keenly aware that occasional gems may still be found at garage sales etc., and there is a lot of concern about value and appropriate pricing.  We see quite a number of sellers coming to the boards with such finds asking about how to price them in a listing.  

In any event, if a seller doesn't do the research to have some idea of the value of an item and ends up being bamboozled by a low offer, it's unfortunate if they get ripped off by an opportunistic buyer who does know the value and preys on their ignorance to get a "steal" of a bargain. 

What I think is far more common on eBay are sellers who may have an understanding of the value of their listed item but are either too inexperienced to negotiate properly or too nervous about losing an offer -- any offer -- to be able to resist hitting the "Accept" button.  And I think the majority of buyers making those offers are hoping for exactly that.   

[sylviebee]

rose-dee:  This thread is about Best Offers and I realize that the dynamics behind the low offers that mj gets are not the same as mine.

However, you sell vintage items and I do know something about that area.

When I asked who the predator was, I was comparing the person buying at the Garage Sale vs. on eBay and pointing out that if you want to call buying low and selling high predatory behaviour and stealing from sellers, then both are predators and people should stop buying at GSs because according to you it’s theft when they turn a profit.

Becoming an “Expert” in any field takes a lot of hours, dedication, and motivation whether you’re studying medicine or learning about stamps, records, native collectibles, beaded items………. the list is endless.

I have a grad degree from the U of W, and attaining that degree was no more challenging than becoming an expert in my chosen field in antiques.

In other words, It takes a lot of skill to be able to know which item has value on the collector’s market at a glance.

Calling buying low and selling high predatory and stealing from sellers is the same as saying that specialists (pharmacists, mechanics, doctors ………. etc.) are thieves. Perhaps they are, but for our society to run smoothly we have to accept the reality that people with skills sometimes get paid. 

So, when buyers make low ball offers that get accepted, that just means that their skill level is higher than the seller's.  You called it theft, and that makes me wonder how much an item can be marked up before you call it theft.  Is there a breaking point?

[momcqueen]

My dimmest view of low-ballers is that they are trying to wear down a seller with insults in the hopes that the barrage of $1-offers on an item listed at $150 will cause the seller to self-doubt, making them second-guess their assigned value on that item. Like teenage boys throwing pennies at the street-corner gals, this would be the equivalent of seeing an opportunity and trying to take the fullest advantage of it by acting like a big bully.

My most generous view is that the lowballers are merely clueless and hoping to get lucky with a freebie. 

But, yes, it would be helpful if somewhere ebay spelled out exactly how the mechanism of a Best Offer work. I recall that the third time a buyer submits a Best Offer to a seller it warns the buyer very clearly that 'this is your final chance' to do so but neglects to specify exactly what 'final chance' means. 

No matter, it would be very nice if ebay could fix the glitch that causes all my auto-accepts and auto-declines to be wiped away when I alter the handling time. Handling time has nothing to do with a Best Offer parameter so I don't know why changing one eliminates the other.