Unauthorized Account Activity filed from over a year ago!

[msmaggie060]

Just received an email from PayPal that an Unauthorized Account Activity has been filed against me for items I shipped over a year ago. I even refunded the buyer for some of the shipping since she bought 3 items from me! How can they expect me to figure out something that happened that far back? All I have is a copy of the shipping detail that shows the 3 items on it and a copy of the PayPal refund. What do I do now?

[msmaggie060]

I didn't explain myself too well on my original post. I know that I have to respond to the chargeback but what I really need to know is if there is any chance of winning since I shipped by lettermail to the buyer (also in Ontario). I woluld think that the fact that I refunded her part of her shipping cost through PayPal on the same day I shipped has to be in my favour, but who knows. Are these cases handled by bots? Is it better to respond to the case or should I call PayPal? Never had one of these in over 10 yrs. 

I really don't understand how they can do a chargeback from over 13 months ago!

[cumos55]

Had one of the same with lettermail.... but mine was very quick after a purchase... and after item was mailed....  and received by the buyer...

The claim was the same as your situation.....  an authorized payment.

Your buyer did not say that they did not get the purchased item.... An important fact

If you have Paypal  protection for this transaction  then you are covered.... atleast you should be protected.

The claim is through the credit card company... and the credit card company has rules that appear to be much different than Paypal's rules.

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In my situation I did all kinds of research on the internet  and found out that my buyer was a senior, over 65 age,  living in a small senoir's community.  Both women at the address were seniors.

The claim was probably initiated by a younger relative of my buyer...... and may be the same in your situation.

Paypal protected me  without my making a refund...

[msmaggie060]

Cumos, did you just reply by sending a written reply within the PayPal case where they ask you to respond? Or did you call PayPal?

[cumos55]

Responded in writing.... I might have called Paypal....if only to confirm everything I wrote....  Sometimes writing seems to cut one off after the first reply to the claim

In your situation, because of the time factor.... a telephone call should be most appropriate

[silverpinups]

For Seller Protection with PayPal you have to have a Tracking Number.

I had a chargeback within a month of the transaction. Actually the buyer informed me prior to PayPal contacting me.

I phoned PayPal and they said I had Seller Protection because of the Tracking Number. 

Now you might still be protected if the original buyer left you positive feedback for the transaction.  If there's no way to prove the item(s) arrived then you might have a problem.     

[pjcdn2005]

Normally you are not covered for an unauthorized charge unless you have proof of shipping or delivery. But in this case I would phone PayPal to at least talk to them about whether you are still responsible for a chargeback from over a year ago.

[pjcdn2005]

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@cumos55 wrote:

Had one of the same with lettermail.... but mine was very quick after a purchase... and after item was mailed....  and received by the buyer...

The claim was the same as your situation.....  an authorized payment.

Your buyer did not say that they did not get the purchased item.... An important fact

If you have Paypal  protection for this transaction  then you are covered.... atleast you should be protected.

The claim is through the credit card company... and the credit card company has rules that appear to be much different than Paypal's rules.

-------------------

In my situation I did all kinds of research on the internet  and found out that my buyer was a senior, over 65 age,  living in a small senoir's community.  Both women at the address were seniors.

The claim was probably initiated by a younger relative of my buyer...... and may be the same in your situation.

Paypal protected me  without my making a refund...

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The card companies might have different rules but that doesn't matter since we only go by PayPal rules. 

If you sent the item by lettermail I wonder why they did cover it...perhaps as a courtesy?

[hlmacdon]

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@msmaggie060 wrote:

I didn't explain myself too well on my original post. I know that I have to respond to the chargeback but what I really need to know is if there is any chance of winning since I shipped by lettermail to the buyer (also in Ontario). I woluld think that the fact that I refunded her part of her shipping cost through PayPal on the same day I shipped has to be in my favour, but who knows. Are these cases handled by bots? Is it better to respond to the case or should I call PayPal? Never had one of these in over 10 yrs. 

I really don't understand how they can do a chargeback from over 13 months ago!

---

When a chargeback is initiated, paypal, like you, has to fight the chargeback. Paypal is beholden to whatever agreements they have with a given financial institution/credit card provider. For that reason they require tangible proof the buyer received the item. If the total value of the shipment is over $850 they also require signature confirmation. Things will help you win a case:

1) Proof the item was shipped to the original payment address and tracking/delivery confirmation it was delivered (Can be tricky for older shipments but they usually have backend api access with major carriers).

2) Signature confirmation from the recipient.

Things that may help you if you don't have the above:

1) Positive feedback from the buyer indicating item was received and proof of mailing to the original payment address.

Chargeback settlement understandably revolves around tracking and signatures where required. I only ship with tracking so I've never had an issue winning a chargeback case (or being covered by PayPal's seller protection if you prefer) in these circumstances. If you don't have any of the above you are pretty much guaranteed to lose. Calling in may help with a courtesy credit from paypal, but any chargebacks they lose count can impact (in the aggregate in a given period) the merchant rates they receive from financial institutions and credit card providers so they won't have much sympathy.

[msmaggie060]

Thanks for all your answers. I'm going to call PayPal tomorrow and plead my case. I have a Canada Post receipt showing the date and the correct postal code I sent to. I also can show the partial refund I made to the buyer same day I shipped and it shows the original transaction number, plus I have rec'd positive FB from my buyer for all three items. I'll hope that is enough!

[esclyons]

i would also ask why it took a year to file a charge back.,.i can't see any credit card issuer responding to something a year later.. i think 6 months is the cut-off..but paypal can certainly clear that up for you..But if it is a legitimate charge back you can't win, without proof of tracking..the partial refund you issued should be recorded somewhere in paypal, and that will have to be applied to the difference in the charge back amount.

[hlmacdon]

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@msmaggie060 wrote:

Thanks for all your answers. I'm going to call PayPal tomorrow and plead my case. I have a Canada Post receipt showing the date and the correct postal code I sent to. I also can show the partial refund I made to the buyer same day I shipped and it shows the original transaction number, plus I have rec'd positive FB from my buyer for all three items. I'll hope that is enough!

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Good to hear you at least have something there. I would screen shot the paypal transaction record, the ebay item sold email. and positive feedback for backup and upload those as documentation then call. One thing I used to do when shipping Canada Post would be to photograph the shipping label (lettermail) or retain a pdf of the shipping label from paypal for light/small packet shipments, that way I retained a full accounting of where the item was shipped to. Hopefully with the positive feedback received and the shipping info you have they will take that into consideration.  

[hlmacdon]

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@esclyons wrote:

i would also ask why it took a year to file a charge back.,.i can't see any credit card issuer responding to something a year later.. i think 6 months is the cut-off..but paypal can certainly clear that up for you.

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The length is going to vary with their individual agreements. Paypal is beholden to the card issuer or financial institution. 

As for the period, perhaps someone doing their yearly taxes and not recalling what a charge was for. A knowingly false claim a year later would be a fairly dedicated wrongdoer. I know I've had items show up on statements then have to do a lot of backtracking to figure out what it was for.

[pierrelebel]

"Unauthorized Account Activity" means that the buyer was NOT authorized to use that account or credit card.  It does not have to do with being shipped or received.

Unfortunately I have had a few of those PayPal reversals over the years and lost everyone of them.  On the other hand I have often recovered the amounts directly from the buyers who had received the goods (typically blamed a former spouse/roommate for the problem/misunderstanding).

Over one year before making a claim seems to be a bit unusual.

Good Luck.

[vintagenorth]

UPDATE! Just received an email to say that the claim was denied as no evidence of unauthorized activity found. Someone must have actually read my email that I submitted to PayPal! Never did get around to calling either (had a nasty sore throat) and didn't feel like talking on the phone. Nice to know that the seller can win sometimes.

[pjcdn2005]

Congrats!

[hlmacdon]

Glad it worked out for you.

[recped]

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@pierrelebel wrote:

"Unauthorized Account Activity" means that the buyer was NOT authorized to use that account or credit card.  It does not have to do with being shipped or received.

Unfortunately I have had a few of those PayPal reversals over the years and lost everyone of them.  On the other hand I have often recovered the amounts directly from the buyers who had received the goods (typically blamed a former spouse/roommate for the problem/misunderstanding).

Over one year before making a claim seems to be a bit unusual.

Good Luck.

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Pierre you should at least mention that the reason you lost all these is because you generally do not use any type of tracking and don't even print non-trackable shipments labels online (you use stamps).

I've had a number of these claims over the years and have never lost a single one because I could always prove SHIPMENT (proof of delivery not required).

[vintagenorth]

This was a shipment that was sent letterpost but according to PayPal policy you only need proof of shipment showing the date sent and the correct ship to zip code. That info is shown on the post office receipt which I had saved with my document for the tax man. Oh, but I guess Pierre sent using stamps, as stamp sellers do. I sometimes use discount postage stamps too, but that time I thankfully did not.