While on the subject of Managed Payments.. Will it solve the PayPal Tax Fee's?????

[*technics1200s.com*]

As most of your sellers have found out this year...

eBay has been collecting taxes for your sales and taking it after payment has been made to PayPal, however you pay the fee's on that tax.

Will this be resolved with Managed Payments? Will eBay stop charging me fees for taxes which they are collecting and remitting to the IRS or other Government bodies around the world (i.e. USA & Australia)?

Anyone with insight as I am sure there are many wondering the same.

[mrdutch1001]

Although some of the fees are still unclarified, eBay has already stated that the new simplified fee under MP will be one final value fee, consisting of a category-based percentage of the total amount of the sale, plus a fixed fee per order, with no third-party payments processing fees. However, whatever the category-based FVF, that is also applied to any Internet sales taxes collected by eBay.

[silverpinups]

A"lthough some of the fees are still unclarified, eBay has already stated that the new simplified fee under MP will be one final value fee, consisting of a category-based percentage of the total amount of the sale, plus a fixed fee per order, with no third-party payments processing fees. However, whatever the category-based FVF, that is also applied to any Internet sales taxes collected by eBay".

So it only gets worse, PayPal charged something like 2.9% on the IST. eBay will charge whatever the FVF is for the categories you sell in (which includes the IST). 

[reallynicestamps]

No, I don't think that's correct.

There will be eBay fees which include shipping fees and may vary from category to category and from seller to seller (stores and TRS etc can affect FVF).

• We usually say this is 10% but we all know it will vary.

And there will be Managed Payment fees which will be charged on the full amount of the payment being processed including sales taxes.

• And those fees will be the same as the PP fee of 30c per transaction (and there can be multiple sales within a transaction) plus 2.9% on domestic* sales.
• The only MP fee on sales taxes is on US state taxes which vary from 0% to 15%. This is not a change from PP.

I like getting advice on this from @pjcdn2005   and of course from tyler@ebay 

*I don't think I've seen what the percentage is on US or overseas sales. Anyone??

[pjcdn2005]

@reallynicestamps 

I can't access the managed payment fee structure on .ca but you should have received that info when you registered?  As silverpinups mentioned there will be just one fee including fvf for domestic sales depending on the category.  I did manage to get access to the fees for US sellers on .com.  I imagine that domestic sales will be the same for us but I'm just guessing.  On .com when a seller with a basic store or higher makes a sale in clothing and accessories the fee will be 11.5% on total amount of the sale for up to $2500.  Over that amount the fee is 2.35%   US sellers will pay an added 1.65% on international sales. I don't know if our fee will be the same for international either.  There is also a .30 fee per transaction.

The fees are on the total sale including all taxes. (not just taxes from US states as you mentioned)

Here is the US info.

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/fees-credits-invoices/selling-fees?id=4822

[kawartha-ephemera]

@reallynicestamps 

Sadly silverpinups is correct. MP will be charging BOTH payment processing fees and FVF on ANY AND ALL SALES TAXES which includes IST or GST/HST.  As a result non-store sellers will see a 12.35% fee charged on all sales taxes, the rate goes up if the sale is to the U.S. or elsewhere around the world. Store sellers will be charged a little less, 11.50%base rate.

The documentation on this has been released  and is one of the few aspects that is crystal clear.

[tyler@ebay]

Hi @reallynicestamps  - required disclaimers first:

_________________

As someone who is not an expert on managed payments I may not be able to address your question in its entirety. If you have been notified to register for managed payments you are able to request a call back from a payments-trained teammate by accessing any of the Help Pages related to payments and using the 'Have us call you' feature at the bottom of the page.

The information provided is accurate as of today's date (24 July 2020) but may become outdated in the future. If you are reading this at a later date please consider checking the Help Pages or request a call back from a managed payments teammate who can provide the most up to date information.

_________________

First and foremost, I am not allowed to discuss specifics when it comes to fees (so no actual numbers), but I can talk in generalities. 

Under the new simplified fee structure there will only be one fee (based on category) and a per-transaction set fee (like PayPal's). So instead of a Final Value Fee, processing fee and a per-transaction set fee you'll have a single fee plus the per-transaction fee. The fee is charged on the entire cost (inclusive of any sales tax charged). 

Thanks!

[reallynicestamps]

So if the transaction fee (30c with Paypal)  and the domestic percentage (2.9% with Paypal)  

• on a $100 sale with $10 shipping would be $3.49 with Paypal

and the category FVF (usually given as 10%) and the shipping FVF (again 10%) from eBay

• on the same sale would be $11.00 to eBay.

for a total of $13.49?

Under Managed Payments the transaction fee (currently I understand from the dotCOM Boards the same 30c)  would add the same 10% to the payment of $110 or

• $11.00+0.30

for a total of $11.30 in eBay fees?

If my arithmetic is correct (which it rarely is)  Managed Payments saves $2.19 over PP processing .

So why keep it secret instead of boasting about it?

[tyler@ebay]

---

@reallynicestamps wrote:

So if the transaction fee (30c with Paypal)  and the domestic percentage (2.9% with Paypal)  

• on a $100 sale with $10 shipping would be $3.49 with Paypal

and the category FVF (usually given as 10%) and the shipping FVF (again 10%) from eBay

• on the same sale would be $11.00 to eBay.

for a total of $13.49?

Under Managed Payments the transaction fee (currently I understand from the dotCOM Boards the same 30c)  would add the same 10% to the payment of $110 or

• $11.00+0.30

for a total of $11.30 in eBay fees?

If my arithmetic is correct (which it rarely is)  Managed Payments saves $2.19 over PP processing .

So why keep it secret instead of boasting about it?

---

From your lips to God's ears @reallynicestamps! 

[gwrocen]

---

tyler@ebay wrote:

---

@reallynicestamps wrote:

So if the transaction fee (30c with Paypal)  and the domestic percentage (2.9% with Paypal)  

• on a $100 sale with $10 shipping would be $3.49 with Paypal

and the category FVF (usually given as 10%) and the shipping FVF (again 10%) from eBay

• on the same sale would be $11.00 to eBay.

for a total of $13.49?

Under Managed Payments the transaction fee (currently I understand from the dotCOM Boards the same 30c)  would add the same 10% to the payment of $110 or

• $11.00+0.30

for a total of $11.30 in eBay fees?

If my arithmetic is correct (which it rarely is)  Managed Payments saves $2.19 over PP processing .

So why keep it secret instead of boasting about it?

---

From your lips to God's ears @reallynicestamps! 

---

"What does 'From your lips to God's ears' mean? When you say this to someone, it means that you hope what they are saying will come true."

Tyler ..........your reply to @reallynicestamps is not an answer.   We sellers cannot operate on speculation.

Are those calculations correct or are we being led up the garden path yet again?

[esclyons]

i don't think the math is correct. right now you pay ebay's fee, and paypal 's fee, with managed payment the fees are very close to the same, so almost a wash,  

However ebay is charging 30 cents transaction fee, and we were only paying paypal's cut on usa taxs, With managed payments we will paying the entire category fee, plus ebay's processing fee, on the usa tax..  so now you pay 2.9% on usa taxes, soon it will be 12-13% on usa taxes..

It will not be cheaper for most seller's..

[kawartha-ephemera]

@reallynicestamps wrote:

So if the transaction fee (30c with Paypal)  and the domestic percentage (2.9% with Paypal)  

• on a $100 sale with $10 shipping would be $3.49 with Paypal

and the category FVF (usually given as 10%) and the shipping FVF (again 10%) from eBay

• on the same sale would be $11.00 to eBay.

for a total of $13.49?

Under Managed Payments the transaction fee (currently I understand from the dotCOM Boards the same 30c)  would add the same 10% to the payment of $110 or

• $11.00+0.30

for a total of $11.30 in eBay fees?

If my arithmetic is correct (which it rarely is)  Managed Payments saves $2.19 over PP processing .

So why keep it secret instead of boasting about it?

---

OK before everyone rushes to the MP signup page let us review the arithmetic. 

Using your example here's how Paypal and MP compare. 

Paypal

$110 sale including shipping ... no sales tax added so final total remains $110.00.

(110 x 2.9) + 0.30 = 3.49 paynent processing fee

110 x 10% = 11.00 FVF

11.00 + 3.49 = 14.49 in total fees

Managed Payments

$110 sale including shipping ... no sales tax added so final total remains $110.00.

(110 x 2.35) + 0.30 =  2.89 payment processing fee

110 x 10% = 11.00 FVF

11.00 + 2.89 = 13.89 in total fees

Note that in MP the payment processing fee and final value fee are not billed separately. Instead the payment processing fee is incorporated into a "simplified" FVF .... 12.35% in this example. 

So, in this example, on a $110 sale, MP saves the seller 0.60 .... 

However, if the sale had been subject to a sales tax, the savings would be reduced as those charges would be subject to 12.35% FVF instead of Paypals 2.9%.

***** in the real world store subscribers are charged lower FVFs than used in this example. Also 2. 35% assumes a domestic buyer paying in Canadian funds. 

[recped]

---

@kawartha-ephemera wrote:

@reallynicestamps wrote:

So if the transaction fee (30c with Paypal)  and the domestic percentage (2.9% with Paypal)  

• on a $100 sale with $10 shipping would be $3.49 with Paypal

and the category FVF (usually given as 10%) and the shipping FVF (again 10%) from eBay

• on the same sale would be $11.00 to eBay.

for a total of $13.49?

Under Managed Payments the transaction fee (currently I understand from the dotCOM Boards the same 30c)  would add the same 10% to the payment of $110 or

• $11.00+0.30

for a total of $11.30 in eBay fees?

If my arithmetic is correct (which it rarely is)  Managed Payments saves $2.19 over PP processing .

So why keep it secret instead of boasting about it?

---

OK before everyone rushes to the MP signup page let us review the arithmetic. 

Using your example here's how Paypal and MP compare. 

Paypal

$110 sale including shipping ... no sales tax added so final total remains $110.00.

(110 x 2.9) + 0.30 = 3.49 paynent processing fee

110 x 10% = 11.00 FVF

11.00 + 3.49 = 14.49 in total fees

Managed Payments

$110 sale including shipping ... no sales tax added so final total remains $110.00.

(110 x 2.35) + 0.30 =  2.89 payment processing fee

110 x 10% = 11.00 FVF

11.00 + 2.89 = 13.89 in total fees

Note that in MP the payment processing fee and final value fee are not billed separately. Instead the payment processing fee is incorporated into a "simplified" FVF .... 12.35% in this example. 

So, in this example, on a $110 sale, MP saves the seller 0.60 .... 

However, if the sale had been subject to a sales tax, the savings would be reduced as those charges would be subject to 12.35% FVF instead of Paypals 2.9%.

***** in the real world store subscribers are charged lower FVFs than used in this example. Also 2. 35% assumes a domestic buyer paying in Canadian funds. Foreign transactions incur higher fees.

---

You note that you examples are for sales by Canadian seller to Canadian buyers.

I have converted them to sales by Canadian sellers to US and International buyers. Important for Canadian sellers since the bulk of sales on eBay.ca are shipped outside of Canada

As you did I'm using non-store fees and separating MP's combined fee into their two parts.

I will use a US Sales Tax rate of 8%, several of the biggest US states have rates lower than 8%, the highest rate I've found is just slightly over 10%.

I have not included any taxes for International sales, these currently only apply to sales shipped to Australia, New Zealand & Norway.

I have also not done an example for Canadian sellers who collect GST/HST themselves, those sellers (like me) have always paid a payment processing fee on the taxes charged.

For simplicity I have given examples for Canada sales based on Province of Ontario based seller for the 2 most common GST/HST rates of 13% and 5%. If all your buyers are in NL you will pay more, if all your buyers are in AB you will pay less.

Sales within Canada (For Sellers who do not collect GST/HST)

Paypal

$110 sale including shipping ... no sales tax added so final total remains $110.00

(110 x 2.9%) + 0.30 = 3.49 payment processing fee

110 x 10% = 11.00 FVF

11.00 + 3.49 = 14.49 in total fees

Managed Payments

$110 sale including shipping ... no sales tax added so final total remains $110.00

(110 x 2.35) + 0.30 =  2.89 payment processing fee

110 x 10% = 11.00 FVF

11.00 + 2.89 = 13.89 in total fees

Sales within Canada (For Sellers who DO collect GST/HST using the ON rate of 13% or QC rate of 5%)

Paypal (Using ON 13% HST rate)

$110 sale including shipping ... gst/hst tax added so final total $124.30

(124.30 x 2.9%) + 0.30 = 3.90 payment processing fee

110 x 10% = 11.00 FVF

11.00 + 3.90 = 14.90 in total fees

Managed Payments (Using ON 13% HST rate)

$110 sale including shipping ... gst/hst tax added so final total $124.30

(124.30 x 2.35) + 0.30 =  3.22 payment processing fee

124.30 x 10% = 12.43 FVF

12.43 + 3.22 = 15.65 in total fees

Paypal (Using ON 13% HST rate)

$110 sale including shipping ... gst/hst tax added so final total $124.30

(124.30 x 2.9%) + 0.30 = 3.90 payment processing fee

110 x 10% = 11.00 FVF

11.00 + 3.90 = 14.90 in total fees

Managed Payments (Using QC/MB/AB 5% rate)

$110 sale including shipping ... gst/hst tax added so final total $115.50

(115.50 x 2.35) + 0.30 =  3.01 payment processing fee

115.50 x 10% = 11.55 FVF

11.55 + 3.01 = 14.56 in total fees

Sales to USA with Sales Tax at an average rate of 8%

Paypal (Sales to US WITH sales tax using average of 8% rate)

$110 sale including shipping ... sales tax added so final total $118.80

(118.80 x 3.7%) + 0.30 = 4.70 payment processing fee

110 x 10% = 11.00 FVF

11.00 + 4.70 = 15.70 in total fees

Managed Payments (Sales to US WITH average sales tax of 8%)

$110 sale including shipping ... sales tax added so final total $118.80

(118.80 x 2.95) + 0.30 =  3.80 payment processing fee

118.80 x 10% = 11.80 FVF

11.88 + 3.80 = 15.68 in total fees

Sales to International buyers (except USA)

Paypal

$110 sale including shipping ... no sales tax added so final total $110.00

(110.00 x 3.9%) + 0.30 = 4.59 payment processing fee

110 x 10% = 11.00 FVF

11.00 + 4.59 = 15.59 in total fees

Managed Payments

$110 sale including shipping ... no sales tax added so final total $110.00

(110.00 x 3.35) + 0.30 =  3.99 payment processing fee

110.00 x 10% = 11.00 FVF

11.00 + 3.99= 14.99 in total fees

In every example Managed Payments has lower fees, in some cases just by a tiny insignificant amount, in other situations such as overseas it's still tiny but perhaps a little significant.

Anyone is welcome (and invited) to check my math for errors, I'm not 100% confident in my skills even though without looking it up I can repeat........

Person,,,,Woman,,,,Man..................................Camera, TV

Still working on the hand gestures, it's a problem because I don't have those perfect tiny hands!

[kawartha-ephemera]

Anyone is welcome (and invited) to check my math for errors, I'm not 100% confident in my skills even though without looking it up I can repeat........

Person,,,,Woman,,,,Man..................................Camera, TV

Still working on the hand gestures, it's a problem because I don't have those perfect tiny hands!

lol .. you definitely passed!

[recped]

Thanks but I already found an error, not in the examples but rather in my preamble where I claim to not be providing an example with GST/HST and in the next paragraph state that I am including an example with GST/HST.

I blame the TV, I thought I was finished, turned around to catch something and then decided to add those examples but forgot to revise the preamble!

Fortunately this error did not affect the examples!

Bottom line in my opinion is that the fee portion of the Managed Payment system is a complete NOTHINBURGER.

I will continue to wait for my induction so that I can experience and comment on the funds transfer, partial refund credits and reporting functions etc aspects. Helpful in that will be that of my two selling id's one will be in MP soon, the other hasn't even been called to register so I will be able to compare one system against the other.

[kawartha-ephemera]

This is the situation where MP is unattractive versus the status quo ... some sellers will lose ... others will win ... others will meet in the middle.

Sales within Canada (For Sellers who DO collect GST/HST using the ON rate of 13%)

Paypal (Using ON 13% HST rate)

$110 sale including shipping ... gst/hst tax added so final total $124.30

(124.30 x 2.9%) + 0.30 = 3.90 payment processing fee

110 x 10% = 11.00 FVF

11.00 + 3.90 = 14.90 in total fees

Managed Payments (Using ON 13% HST rate)

$110 sale including shipping ... gst/hst tax added so final total $124.30

(124.30 x 2.35) + 0.30 =  3.22 payment processing fee

124.30 x 10% = 12.43 FVF

12.43 + 3.22 = 15.65 in total fees

[recped]

For kicks I ran my numbers for sales January 1 to July 24.

AB 4%
BC 5.5%
MB 3.9%
SK 4%
QC 26.4%

GST @ 5% share 43.8%

NB 8.9%
NL 3.3%
NS 4.3%
ON 41.4%

HST @ 13 or 15% share 57.9%
(total is more than 100 due to rounding)

Under these numbers I'll be paying a few pennies more on 8% of my Canadian sales.

I should note that for this period my NB/NL sales were unusually high due to single buyers with deep pockets, I've probably had more than a few years with 0% going to those two provinces.

My sample size is modest and no doubt fluctuates, if I had taken the same amount of time posting actual new listings as I have on my calculations I would probably make 100 times the amount of extra fees I might pay in the next year.

But my brain needs exercise and listing more just creates more drone work packing and shipping!

[reallynicestamps]

(For Sellers who DO collect GST/HST using the ON rate of 13%)

Which is I think a relatively small percentage of sellers, most of whom seem to be selling more as part of a hobby than for income.

Tax collecting sellers would be able to claim those fees on their business income tax forms, I would think?

Those who are not registered to remit Canadian taxes would have a different set of figures.

But would I suppose also be paying less in fees.