canada post confirmation of receipt <-- satisfies Paypal?

[lk_brickhead_toys]

Shipping internationally with small packages, it is hard to track for a reasonable fee.

Does anyone know if Canada Post's confirmation of receipt would satisfy paypal in a dispute?

[femmefan1946]

The basic problem is that many countries don't or can't provide Confirmation of Delivery.

Your best bet is to protect yourself by learning the 'dangerous' countries.

One suggestion is to Block the countries that shipinsure (a third party shipping insurance company which is well regarded by eBay sellers who have used them) will not cover.

The problems are not necessarily the customers, most people are honest, but poor postal systems, slow customs departments, and underpaid/dishonest handlers can mean delays and theft.

Never never never ship Surface to a new customer. 

You can also use Cookie Jar Insurance.

This just means adding a few cents to every asking price to cover occasional problems. If your items sell for $10 and your CJI premium is 10c, then you can have one problem in 100 sales without losing money.

And most sellers have fewer than that.

At this point, with no Seller FB, I would not encourage you to ship internationally at all.

And don't even consider it until you have 10 DSRs and know what DSRs are.

[dutchman48]

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@hpbrickhead_sequel wrote:

Shipping internationally with small packages, it is hard to track for a reasonable fee.

Does anyone know if Canada Post's confirmation of receipt would satisfy paypal in a dispute?

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For an INR, you have to have on line viewable delivery confirmation. Same with Paypal

A receipt from the post office is no good and you will lose.

It may suffice for a chargeback on Paypal

You should at present only ship to Canada, and possibly the US, as outside North America has way too many issues for a new seller.

Also, as a new seller stay away from selling high scam items such as phones and electronics, and there are many more.

[momcqueen]

That acceptance scan receipt on Small Packets is good to be used for is insurance claims from third-party insurers like u-pic. 

If you buy third-party insurance on your Small Packet parcel, you might need that receipt from the postal counter to file a postal loss claim. So, it allows you to open your insurance claim but it does not save you from any Items Not Received claims.

[nascence]

Unless you pay the ridiculous amount for tracking, you're thrown under the bus as a seller on eBay.

Good luck.

[pierrelebel]

"Unless you pay the ridiculous amount for tracking, you're thrown under the bus as a seller on eBay."

Translation:  Selling by mail contains risks. 

It does not matter if using eBay or other online venues or other means to reach your potential customers (newspapers, magazines, television, radio, junk mail, etc...) mail order contains some risks. Sellers can minimize them but not totally avoid them.

Direct marketing (also known as "mail order business") has been around for centuries and has worked rather well in most instances.

Until about twenty/thirty years ago, "mail order" was used by businesses (small and large) reaching potential buyers - domestically or worldwide - by advertising products available at a predetermined price.  In most instances products were relatively light and small with low shipping (mailing) costs.

As the Internet became available to hundreds of millions potential buyers across the globe, marketing methods changed. Venues such as eBay and many others made it possible for individuals to become "small businesses" and offer to sell their products to a wide audience.

Of course accepting payment and shipping goods to total strangers (domestic or overseas) does involve some risks. Each individual wishing to become a "small business" selling online needs to understand and accept the risks.  One must keep in mind that buyers are also taking risks sending their money to a stranger hoping the goods shipped (if ever shipped) will be as advertised.

An alternative, of course, is to sell your products through a brick and mortar store (or flea market) where buyers see and touch the products prior to purchase.

So posters should stop blaming eBay when they fail to understand the risks.  It is too easy.  If you are not willing to accept the risks involved in mail order, using online venues, find other ways to occupy your time.

[cumos55]

Selling by mail contains risks. 

When it comes to selling on eBay, this statement starts with what one chooses to sell.

and... Who choose to buy that product.

It is the character of the buyer  that makes things very risky....   They develop an understanding of the what they can do to take advantage of a seller....  and most importantly... without alerting eBay about what they have been doing

.One does get the impression that eBay will be making adjustments in relation to these "bad" buyers.... a recent discussion

When a buyer is faulted.... reported to eBay.... it is done anonymously...and only after many,, many, many reports does eBay do something.

Recent indications on eBay.com is that eBay is looking to establish a process to identify the bad buyers  much more quickly.... and label these buyers as scammers

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For me selling internationally to Europe  was guided by the basic character of the buyer  from specific countries

The risk for selling  will always be there....Shipping without tracking can be done...... but that depends  very much on what one sells and the character of the buyer

Shipping internationally ... specifically European countries was guided by the "non-trusting",    "edgy" character of buyers who live in countries that bordered the Mediterranean... Blocking these countries  was very helpful in reducing the stress of shipping to European countries...

Eventually it was problems with Canada Post not recording tracking when the parcel left Canada... making errors  that forced one to stop shipping beyond Canada and the US.  That was a nerve racking series of summer months.

[hlmacdon]

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@cumos55 wrote:

For me selling internationally to Europe  was guided by the basic character of the buyer  from specific countries

The risk for selling  will always be there....Shipping without tracking can be done...... but that depends  very much on what one sells and the character of the buyer

Shipping internationally ... specifically European countries was guided by the "non-trusting",    "edgy" character of buyers who live in countries that bordered the Mediterranean... Blocking these countries  was very helpful in reducing the stress of shipping to European countries...

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Blocking problematic countries can help but there are still many issues with inefficiencies and incompatibilities of postal services as well as complications caused by customs. As a UPU member participating in the letter post express (e-delcon, e-express, post expres etc) program Canada Post could choose to make their tracked packet service more affordable, but it is a margin cash cow for them that is being used to offset losses on incoming traditional registered/lettermail/packets that are still being used to send products versus correspondence. Even UPU members with bilateral agreements continue to have data interchange issues as many of them are still using very different software and hardware. The word antiquated comes to mind.

I ship everything tracked via USPS via e-delcon for shipments outside of North America and there still are numerous scan related issues with participating countries including many missed final acceptance scans. Fortunately the category I sell in has relatively low fraud rates as it is mostly an older demographic buying the product. That being said even with tracking to final acceptance there are multiple options for a knowledgeable scammer. The one thing I will say is that having domestic based scans up until the point of export would help reduce the number of claims. I've found over the years that in many cases buyers just want reassurance the item has been sent and not having any information at all understandably can make some buyers prematurely file a claim.

[pierrelebel]

In fact I did read :" ridiculous amount for tracking"

Tracking is one way to minimize the risk factors.  It is not about mailing cost but to cost of tracking (minimizing RISKS).

I stand by my comments.

[cumos55]

When I first started selling on eBay in 2003-2004   I could ship worldwide using Canada Post Small Packet.

Small packet was fully insured, but with no tracking..... Canada Post trusted both buyer and seller when non-receipt claims were made.... and there were very few claims 

Gradually over time Canada Post realized that many claims of non-receipt were false..... and that was when Small Packet  no longer had insurance .. and Tracked Packet was introduced.

This was also the time when buyers became focused on tracking... or more specifically  the absence of tracking  .  These buyers soon learned  they could buy something  and then claim a non-receipt  and get their money back... without question...  and keep the purchased item.

The risk here is the fact that without tracking...  selling on eBay  is very much of a risk on eBay.

We on this board know of the risk..  and we have an historical reference of a seller  that gave up selling on eBay,  because of the inventory this seller had, and then the fact that he could not be competitive,  specifically with US sellers of the same inventory,  if tracking was used with his postage.

Scammers beat this seller to a pulp... and he gave up the selling on eBay. because of the absence of tracking with the postage option he used

Historically we can see that the first to make an adjustment  was Canada Post.. too many insurance claims on Small Packet, without tracking.

and then we have sellers of certain inventory that choose to leave and stop selling certain inventory on eBay.

In contrast to Canad Post, the USPS has a very  low cost addition of tracking to many postal options.  Such a low cost tracking option reduces the risk of non-receipt claims dramatically....

The risk of selling on eBay,  more so in some categories than others, is very much dependent on the availability of tracking

The absence of tracking  can make a seller's life  on eBay  a horror story...  with that horror dependent on what one sells and `the character of the people that buy the non-tracked inventory

About 20 % of my sales are shipped using non-insured oversize lettermail/letterpost, and it is because of the type of inventory I sell... and in the turn the character of my buyers,  that non-receipt claims can be classified with a probability of one in a million.  Any reduction in risk  became a reality when I stopped shipping to buyers with shipping addresses outside of Canada and the US.

Shipping without tracking became a horror story for some Canadian  sellers.

Today, that confirmation receipt mentioned in the title of this discussion has no value at all when it comes to any claim of non-receipt.

That confirmation receipt is the equivalent of my using uninsured..Small Packet in 2003-2004.  Insurance without tracking eventually  became a horror story for Canada Post...  

That is when Small Packet became a non-insured Canada Post option,  and Tracked Packet was introduced.

[cumos55]

It was about 10 years ago that I started to read the boards on eBay.com.

These discussions were a source of information...  They provided me with lot lot of background,

and alerted me to the reality of what I should not do to be successful on eBay.

I learned the most from people  that reported a problem...  They knew what the answer to their problem was,  but failed to recognize  they had the answer to their own problem.   They failed to understand they, and not eBay,  were causing the problem

Many times  a seller will come here with a problem.....  and it is only when  we analyze what the seller does... totally... does an answer to the problem become obvious...

Then it is the seller with the problem  that must understand what they must do to address and correct the problem.

I have observed that many times it is the seller that is the problem, something many self-focused sellers choose to ignore.

[hlmacdon]

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@cumos55 wrote:

In contrast to Canad Post, the USPS has a very  low cost addition of tracking to many postal options.  Such a low cost tracking option reduces the risk of non-receipt claims dramatically....

The risk of selling on eBay,  more so in some categories than others, is very much dependent on the availability of tracking

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It's not that tracking is a low cost addition with USPS, it is standard with low cost shipping. Canada Post is stuck with shipping rates that are out of step with the times, particularly for lightweight shipments that are under a pound and generally have lower values. Part of that is due to our unique geography and overall volumes, but there is also a massive gap between what the general public pays and what any larger volume retailer is paying. In the US the playing field has been levelled by postage resellers who essentially enable a bulk rate through the collective volume of individuals and small/medium business. In Canada not so much. What I might pay $15-20 for as a member of the public with a "small business" discount, former businesses I worked for were paying half or less. They really need something that bridges the gap between lettermail and larger parcels and to renegotiate the reciprocal rates with countries where they are losing money.