eBay

mgiurgeu · ‎01-11-2018

For those who are new to selling on eBay/PayPal or for those lucky sellers who have never been stung, be prepared to lose money with no recourse.

I've been selling very little, but for quite a few years without incident, until last month when I sold a brand new iPhone X to a buyer in Canada. The buyer claims that they received a bottle of water instead. They open a dispute on eBay, I respond promptly asking for the case to be escalated. The buyer then opens the same dispute to PayPal. At this point, without my consent, eBay closes the case. At the same time, eBay suspends the buyer's account. Hopeful that the buyer is exposed, I wait patiently for PayPal's resolution, but to my surprise they rule in the buyer's favour.

I appeal the decision but to my shock, PayPal says that the only valid evidence they will take into consideration from me is government documents proving that what was in the package was indeed the phone and not the bottle of water. Needless to say, CanadaPost does not have any such evidence. When I point out that eBay has suspended the buyer's account or that my reputation on eBay is 100% they say that none of that matters to them because they are a separate company from eBay.

So here we are. Take it as you want: lose if you're an honest seller or steal cheaply if you're a cunning buyer. It's really easy. All you need is patience.

Bye, bye eBay/PayPal. I will never ever sell anything on this platform.

sylviebee · ‎01-11-2018

Did you ship with or without insurance?

momcqueen · ‎01-11-2018

Have you spoken to police? If you open a complaint for fraud or theft and present that information to paypal, you may be able to appeal their decision.

mgiurgeu · ‎01-11-2018

yes, I shipped without insurance

mgiurgeu · ‎01-11-2018

I did speak to the police. they said that this is a civil matter and that they don't get involved, unless under a court order

momcqueen · ‎01-11-2018

Interesting. When I experienced a similar situation, I went to the local precinct and filed a criminal fraud report of which I then had to purchase a copy to submit to paypal for their appeal. Did you call police or go in person? I should think theft is theft, maybe try going in person to police or calling again, whichever is the opposite of what you did in the first place to gain the unsatisfactory response.

momcqueen · ‎01-11-2018

Or try describing the matter to police in a way that emphasizes the theft at the hands of other party as opposed to ebay and/or paypal.

If you shipped within Canada via Expedited Parcel through Canada Post, you have $100 worth of insurance included. Perhaps open a claim.

Assuming that you had control of the merchandise shipped from the time it left your desk to the time it was deposited with Canada Post, there are only two ways this could have gone down: the buyer is not being truthful, or someone swiped and switched it along the way.

Maybe ask tyler@ebay.com for advice when he opens the Weekly Chat next week.

reallynicestamps · ‎01-12-2018

Canada Post won't (in general) ship liquids.

Water bottles gurgle.

In person is definitely the way to go. The person at a screen or a phone has a quota to reach. Face to face is harder to brush off.

And theft is definitely the charge.

You could also try phoning the police in the scammer's area WITH your local police report number and speaking to them. The scammer may have a reputation.

maximus7001 · ‎01-12-2018

No insurance... really? Self inflicted.

momcqueen · ‎01-12-2018

Wait a minute. Was this one of your $1000 iPhones?

In order to achieve ANY kind of Seller Protection from paypal you need to ship items valued at more than $850 CAD (including shipping) with Signature Confirmation. So, who signed for it?

That is the person you need to file a criminal complaint against.

If you didn't ship with signature on delivery, then you've invalidated your seller protection.

It's not as easy as a buyer saying 'this was a rock and not a $1000 phone' when they make that kind of claim with paypal. They need to provide something like the police report I told YOU to get earlier in the thread.

There are too many unanswered questions left open for us to be able to help you further. Opening new threads won't get new replies, either. It means only the regulars (like me) are looking at them twice and then three times.

tobyshitzu · ‎01-12-2018

"

Canada Post won't (in general) ship liquids."

CP will ship any liquid, WM and AMZN are sending vast amounts of grocery items with CP. Was sure a mess when WM tighlty packed a carton including a tetra box of soup that split open on the way!

insurance wouldnt have made any difference. the parcel was delivered. The buyer is going to say you shipped a water bottle.

sylviebee · ‎01-12-2018

You have no way of knowing if the buyer is lying or if the item was switched along the way.

I've had so many odd experiences with the PO that I know that anything can happen.

In other words: Don't automatically blame the buyer.

Also, where would you file the report? In your city, in the city where the item was shipped from, or perhaps at the city of the custom's office and/or any other stops along the way?

momcqueen · ‎01-12-2018

1. An open ticket for a 'theft' investigation would stem from point of origin with Canada Post.

2. An criminal investigation would start at point of origin with local police.

The buyer in this case would have been required to file one at their end by paypal in order to proceed with a claim of an Item Significantly Not as Described for a case of this financial size.

esclyons · ‎01-12-2018

i would be checking to see if the phone has been activated, do you still have the sim card info.. is there any way to see who or where the phone was activated.. just a thought..

cumos55 · ‎01-13-2018

A new seller on eBay has a lot to learn.

Scammers look for a new seller...... and will take that seller to the cleaners.

Success on eBay is knowing what not to do.

This seller has lots to learn... about eBay.. and also Canada Post and also other delivery options.

Canada Post shipping to the US... insurance.... Nothing above $1,000, if I remember correctly.

Rules... eBay... Paypal... Canada Post... Courier options such as UPS and Fed-Ex

sylviebee · ‎01-13-2018

@mjwl2006momcqueen wrote:
1. An open ticket for a 'theft' investigation would stem from point of origin with Canada Post.

2. An criminal investigation would start at point of origin with local police.

The buyer in this case would have been required to file one at their end by paypal in order to proceed with a claim of an Item Significantly Not as Described for a case of this financial size.

It's so much more complicated than that. 🙂

momcqueen · ‎01-13-2018

@sylviebee wrote:
@mjwl2006momcqueen wrote:
1. An open ticket for a 'theft' investigation would stem from point of origin with Canada Post.

2. An criminal investigation would start at point of origin with local police.

The buyer in this case would have been required to file one at their end by paypal in order to proceed with a claim of an Item Significantly Not as Described for a case of this financial size.
It's so much more complicated than that. 🙂

I agree. It is VERY difficult for a buyer to win a claim of 'got a rock instead of a whatever' with paypal which is the reason I've said we cannot help this member any much further until we gain some more insight into how this all shook down.

Lack of Signature Confirmation (if that was the case) may be the true lynchpin here with the 'rock' issue being a rather large red herring.

cumos55 · ‎01-13-2018

There are many things that are not right with this transaction.

(1) Low feedback seller selling a high priced item..... An eBay reality that can cause a problem

(2) No insurance, no signature confirmation.... A Paypal problem

(3) If valued at more than $1000 it should have been shipped using UPS to the US, Canada Post to Canadian destinations. Seller's choice.

A sale such as this would scare the living daylights out me.... even if I did everything right....

Seller must always be control of such a sale...... In this situation seller lost control as soon as the item was shipped.

mgiurgeu · ‎01-20-2018

Thank you all who replied. I've been away and had no time to respond, so I'm trying to catch up.

The very important thing and lesson to be learned here is that it is obvious that PayPal is biased against sellers. Refusing to take the eBay ratings of both parties into consideration is really a problem. Asking for Government issued documentation from the seller but accepting potentially fabricated evidence from the buyer is totally unacceptable. Of course I could have sent a bottle of water instead of an iPhone. But at the same time, the buyer could have easily produce false evidence. There is no way to find out who's right. But the fact that I successfully sold a number of similar items recently and that the buyer's account has been suspended by eBay shortly after the dispute has been opened should have been taken into consideration. My ratings on eBay are 100% positive.

The other disturbing thing is eBay closing the case automatically, without the seller's consent, once the case is opened by the buyer with PayPal. This allows an unscrupulous buyer to take advantage of the situation. All my efforts to convince eBay that the buyer is a scammer were met with "the case is no longer with us, go talk to PaylPal", and all efforts to convince PayPal to look at eBay's ratings for the buyer were met with "eBay is a separate company, we don't take that into consideration". I even asked PayPal if they would accept video footage by me showing me packing the iPhone, sealing the box and dropping it off to a carrier and they said that they would reject it. I don't have such evidence, but considered it for the future.

So folks, take it as a warning, it may happen to you.

PS. I talked to the Police and they said that this is a civil matter and needs to be taken to the Courts. If the Court decides in my favour they will intervene.