i just love how u send out an item and the buyer says it never got it and paypal refunds the money

[astrogirl197012]

take my advice and DO NOT ship to the Russian Federation, you will lose each and everytime. lost a valuable coin and buyer got his money back. what a GREAT system eh?

[nudibranch4569]

did you use tracking?

[astrogirl197012]

buyer would not pay for tracking due to the high cost

[pjcdn2005]

I've had fairly good luck with sending items to Russia but I admit that I do often block it on listings with higher priced items.

You really have no way of knowing whether or not the buyer received the item. So in that situation, what do you think should happen?  The buyer should not get a refund?

[dmil8030]

Hello 'astrogirl',

<<lost a valuable coin and buyer got his money back  ...  buyer would not pay for tracking>>

Well of course the buyer did not want to pay for tracking, not if you offered a choice, -- useful though it is,

it ultimately benefits you, doesn't it.

That is why most sellers to not offer a choice, particularly with "valuable" items. 

You have basically 2 choices, - ship using a Delivery Confirmed (tracked) service, or add on a sufficient

'self insurance' to each and every item you sell, and when you have to refund, pay yourself from this stash.

The rotten miserable truth is that there is no shortage of crooks and thieves in the world.  It is up to you

to protect yourself. 

At this point it might not hurt to send a sweetly worded note to the buyer reminding him that you have

mailed the item and if it is not there yet, it will be soon.  Ask him if perhaps he would be willing to repay

you when it arrives.

It might work, it might not.  If you are ever snarly with a buyer, however, you remove any incentive to

do the right thing and repay you. 

Just a thought

[mr.elmwood]

---

@dmil8030 wrote:

Hello 'astrogirl',

<<lost a valuable coin and buyer got his money back  ...  buyer would not pay for tracking>>

Well of course the buyer did not want to pay for tracking, not if you offered a choice, -- useful though it is,

it ultimately benefits you, doesn't it.

That is why most sellers to not offer a choice, particularly with "valuable" items. 

You have basically 2 choices, - ship using a Delivery Confirmed (tracked) service, or add on a sufficient

'self insurance' to each and every item you sell, and when you have to refund, pay yourself from this stash.

The rotten miserable truth is that there is no shortage of crooks and thieves in the world.  It is up to you

to protect yourself. 

At this point it might not hurt to send a sweetly worded note to the buyer reminding him that you have

mailed the item and if it is not there yet, it will be soon.  Ask him if perhaps he would be willing to repay

you when it arrives.

It might work, it might not.  If you are ever snarly with a buyer, however, you remove any incentive to

do the right thing and repay you. 

Just a thought

---

That is the ultimate definition of "seller protection".

[ricarmic]

I am not a coin guy, but are you able to ship coins (aka money) to Russia?? Check the restrictions guidelines, I think money is not ok - of course if it isn't checked by customs it will get through, but this might be some of the trouble too... here's a link to the Canada Post international guidelines.... http://www.canadapost.ca/tools/pg/manual/pgIntDest-e.asp?letter=R

here's the US equivalent:

http://pe.usps.com/text/Imm/immctry.htm

[mdf_jersey]

No offence astrogirl but, boy that was dumb.

You walked into that one. If you value your item  then never send anything without tracking. I think many of us are aware that a lot of eastern block ( old USSR ) countries have been a thorn when it comes to being scammed. There are many over there who look for sellers like yourself who are willing to send items without any tracking. Good racket for them.

[reallynicestamps]

buyer would not pay for tracking due to the high cost

And because he knew that he would not be able to pull this scam if you did track.

You got conned.

Well, we all have learning experiences and we all hate having them.

FWIW, you are not out the price the crook paid for the coin, you are only out your costs for the coin, adverising and shipping. The profit does not exist until it is firmly in your pocket.

[pjcdn2005]

It's interesting how some of the posters assumed that the buyer or someone was being dishonest. That it definitely possible but it is not the only possibility. 

For example, when I picked up my mail yesterday there was a package that I had sent to Russia on March 27th. According to the note on the package it was never claimed. It was a very low cost item and no taxes would have been due so I'm not sure what happened.

In this case the buyer did not open a claim or even let me know that there was a problem but if he had...it would have been wrong of me to 'assume' that he had the item and was trying to 'con' me.

[dmil8030]

<< that the buyer ... was being dishonest. ... is not the only possibility. >>

A valid point, and it is certainly commendable that you continue to maintain a healthy open-mindedness

about buyers.  There is far too little of that on the boards, to be sure. 

I'll tell you why I read the post from 'astrogirl' and groaned the way I did,

<< lost a valuable coin and buyer got his money back.>>  +  <<buyer would not pay for tracking>>

This suggests to me that the buyer did not wait 40 days to contact the seller, open a claim on day 43, then

wait nearly 20 days before concluding it.  We are not given these sorts of details, but based on the information

presented I see someone who opts for the lowest cost shipping and then hasn't the decency to wait the

maximum amount of time.  The buyer knew how to get his money back so he certainly knows the Timelines.

With your own Russian buyer, you got an item returned to you that was never picked up or delivered,

but the buyer did not file a claim.  It's a small quibble but I see that as the crux of the issue, - a buyer who

insists on an untraceable package then files to get money back, is in my view quite distinct from a

buyer who never bothers with the package and never mentions it to the seller either.

So that's why I think this particular buyer was sketchy, -- based on his own behavioiur.

Me too I'll always choose "Surface" if it is an option.  But then, I am willing to wait for my items to show up.

I just got a parcel last week that was 66 days coming from the UK.  I don't mind the wait and am very

happy to save the £10 over the cost of airmail.

It would be absolutely unconscionable to choose 'Surface' and then file for a refund, - at least before 90 days

are up (I use a credit card).  The slowest parcel on earth will be here well in advance of 90 days.

But it's good of you to say positive things in defence of buyers around here.  It provides a much needed balance.

[tobyshitzu]

Just in the news, company suspends service over mail thefts, in Canada, while in CP hands

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/canada-post-thefts-halt-lens-rentals-canada-service-1.2724599

Unless there is evidence the buyer is claiming a number of items didn't arrive there is just no way to know if they stole it or not

[mr.elmwood]

---

@toby**bleep**zu wrote:

Just in the news, company suspends service over mail thefts, in Canada, while in CP hands

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/canada-post-thefts-halt-lens-rentals-canada-service-1.2724599

Unless there is evidence the buyer is claiming a number of items didn't arrive there is just no way to know if they stole it or not

---

Did you actually read the article before posting that?

"there's no evidence at this time that it was a Canada Post employee or contractor who stole the gear."

Thefts of this nature are almost always a company employee or company hired contractor.

[tobyshitzu]

Yes I read the article and yes CP rep says there is no evidence (obviously, if there was evidence someone would already be charged).  Also read "the thefts took place at a Canada Post shipping facility in Mississauga," and that CP and the police are investigating.  Of course those lenses would have been tracked and they know where the tracking stopped  

The point being if it was on  the way to OPs russian customer, it could have disappeared long before it got to the customer.  

[melissasminis]

It takes a long time for items to get to the customer in Russia, has nothing to do with Russian people being con artists and trying to rip you off. The mail system has been backed up for years, and can take 1-2 months for air mail. If you don't want to take the chance to international countries like Russia, charge high shipping costs for tracking and delivery confirmation. Costs a lot for tracking and delivery confirmation to international countries, anywhere from approx .$40-$75. The customer was impatient when they have to realize the mail system in Russia is slow an unorganized to begin with, compared to many other countries. Maybe this buyer hasn't purchased many things from the internet and does not know how long it can take to arrive. Please expalin this to your buyer.