Chargeback for unauthorized payment

[momcqueen]

So here's a new one. My first ever 'unauthorized' dispute via PayPal has plunged my account into the red. 

The buyer has had an account for 2.5 years and is still actively using it. 

I can prove I sent it to the exact address supplied by the buyer with tracking that shows it was delivered where he asked it to go within a week. 

Am I still going to lose this dispute? I've been on hold with Paypal for, wait for it, 1 hour and 45 minutes without actually reaching an agent. I'm about ready to hang up. It's pointless but I won't be back at my desk during business hours until late tomorrow. I want to see what an agent can tell me about what other 'evidence' I need to supply in order to evoke Seller Protection.

It was a $50-transaction so I won't die if it's stolen from me but I can't afford it right now either. 

[momcqueen]

In another four minutes I will have sat on hold for Paypal (without ever speaking to an agent) for TWO HOURS. Two hours. Two. Hours. 

[momcqueen]

I can now recite by memory all their on-hold advice/handy tip scripts, they should hire me to answer their calls. Goodbye!

[ypdc_dennis · Accepted solution]

An outlier possibility:

I remember reading (years ago, so no link) of one seller, who had a chargeback.

The buyer repaid him. Turns out the buyer had a problem with his credit card and the american bank had filed chargebacks on all the buyer's purchases in the previous 3-4 months.

...

Since it's tracked and delivered, and payment handled through paypal's system, you should be protected. You may have resort to email if the phones are out of action.

...

You could also email the buyer and ask what's going on.

Best of luck with a quick resolution.

-..-

[momcqueen]

That’s good advice, I’ll try sending a polite message to the buyer tomorrow. As well as one to PayPal. I passed the time on hold writing other emails.

With toys, my assumption is always that someone’s child is shopping unattended on their parent’s iPhone; the eBay app is left active so it’s not difficult to hit buttons to buy something and if PayPal is also auto-signed-in it’s paid in 30 seconds and in the mail in an hour. But unattended four-year-old shoppers aren’t my bill to foot; that’s a parental problem not to be solved with chargebacks. It’s not like I turned down a Return Request, this came out of the blue.

[esclyons · Accepted solution]

your tracking with deliverd being shown, is all you need to invoke your seller protection from paypal. when you get an agent, they will actually close the case and release the funds, when you are on the phone with them..  I have had 2 of them in the last year, and won both of them..It is funny that the buyers never claim to have not received the items, just that they didn't authorize the purchases. So they end up with the product, and they get their money back.

[momcqueen]

I would LOVE to have spoken to an agent after waiting on hold for two hours but I had to give us and finally leave my desk, I'd run out of emails to send. 

I took ypdc_dennis' suggestion and sent a polite email to the buyer this morning and also sent an email to PayPal through their Message Centre.

I mean, clearly, this is some kind of mistake. The buyer's name is his ebay user ID and tracking shows delivered to the address to which he sent it so it cannot be unauthorized use. Like, no possible way.

But my PayPal account is in the red which means I cannot use it until it isn't even for purchasing postage labels so this presents a problem if I really have to wait 75 days for PayPal review like they say.

I mean, I'll probably soon have another ebay sale to cover it so I can begin purchasing postage labels again but what an extra load of stress that I don't appreciate at the moment. 

And a wait time of two hours on hold?! Paypal has never been this bad before. I could have gone to bed with the phone and I'd probably still be waiting for my agent when I woke at 4 am!

If I don't get any response to the emails, I'll try calling again. Unfortunately, I am away from my desk today until evening again when the two-hour-hold cycle probably starts again. Thank you for the advice that it's worth speaking to a live person instead of waiting it out for two months or more.

[kiralicious · Accepted solution]

2 hour wait - That's just insane.

In my experience with credit card charge backs over the years is that if the item was shipped to the PAYPAL confirmed address with tracking and proof of delivery I've always been covered by paypal  seller protection.  It's odd though - in all the case I've had paypal has never removed or held the fund involved in the chargeback.  They've always sent a message saying there was a chargeback and they were doing an investigation and nothing was required of me as tracking was uploaded  and they would update me of any changes.  I would follow their "investigation" in my paypal notifications and eventually (in some cases it was a month or more) I would see the case disappear.   Now things may have changed - it's been about 6 months since my last one.

Hope you get some resolution.  let us know how it goes or what paypal tells you if you are able to get a hold of them.

[momcqueen]

Hmm, that’s interesting.

The buyer replied this morning saying he was sorry for the trouble and he’s looking into it.

All very polite.

I’ll try calling PayPal again later. They called it a ‘hold’ on the funds but it was a transaction dated Oct 1 so that money is long ago withdrawn. My account is in otherwise good standing so it’s curious there’s different processes that may be followed.

[femmefan1946 · Accepted solution]

The only time I had a cc chargeback, I sent an eBay Message (or perhaps an email, it was months ago) to the customer, letting her know that while I send untracked, the sewing pattern went to Amsterdam by Air Mail and the postal system is usually very fast and secure.

Then I told her to ask at the coffee shop next door to her house and mentioned that her home was even narrower than our first house, also a townhouse, and that it was very romantic to live canalside.

Which was all from Google Maps.

Whether she remembered that she actually had received the pattern or whether my detail made her nervouse, the case suddenly ended and I kept the $20.

[pjcdn2005 · Accepted solution]

Unauthorized use chargebacks are the easiest to win if you have tracking.  All you need is proof that the item was shipped (doesn’t have to be delivered)  to the payment address.  If your tracking number is showing in the PP transaction and a scan shows the item was received by the post office, PayPal will cover you.  They used to close it quickly in that situation but last time I had to wait a week or so before they took off the chargeback notice.  

[pjcdn2005]

Sorry,I forgot about something they added to the agreement a while ago.  One of their rules now is that the buyer has have to do the transaction through their PP account.  I’m sure that they withdrew that change in the US, I’m not sure why we still have it it here.

To be covered by PayPal’s Seller Protection program for a buyer’s Unauthorized Transaction claim, you must meet both the basic requirements listed above and the additional requirements listed below:

• The payment must be marked “eligible” or “partially eligible” for PayPal's Seller Protection on the Transaction Details page.
• The payment must have been made in connection with a transaction where the buyer logged into their PayPal account to complete the transaction.  That is, transactions that you complete, on the buyer’s behalf pursuant to an agreement with that buyer, where PayPal is stored as the payment method (such as automatic payments) do not qualify for protection from Unauthorized Transactions under PayPal’s Seller Protection program.

• You must provide proof of shipment or proof of delivery as described below unless the payment was for an item that was listed for sale in a classified advertisement and you completed the transaction in person.

https://www.paypal.com/ca/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full

[pjcdn2005]

I believe that rule was in effect with my last chargeback.  When I asked the buyer about the chargeback he said that he had contested it because on his cc bill the charge showed as being from PayPal and since he didn’t have a PP account he thought the charge was a bogus one.  He said he would phone his cc company to cancel the chargeback.  So I’m not sure if I won despite that new rule or because he really did cancel the chargeback.  I think that it was the former just because of the way the timing worked out.

[momcqueen]

Interesting. I've never faced a chargeback before so this is all new to me. 

I'm at my desk now but I'm trying to pack an order, I'm not sure I can dig through boxes with the on-hand script playing endlessly for another two hours from the telephone in my back pocket while I do it.

[tyler@ebay · Accepted solution]

Hi @momcqueen - two hours is rough, I hope the muzak wasn't too bad at least!

An alternative to emailing or calling that I've found to be really effective is to tweet them. They usually respond quickly in my experience, and are fairly capable at getting things sorted out. 

It's also nice because you can send a Tweet, and wait for your phone to notify you of their reply instead of hearing 'Thank you for calling....' hundreds of times. 

Hope this can get sorted out soon!

[femmefan1946]

because on his cc bill the charge showed as being from PayPal and since he didn’t have a PP account

Something else that has to be cleared up about guest accounts.

Those buyers think they are paying from their cards, but the payment is processed through Paypal.

Since guest accounts are probably here to stay, this is something that has to be clarified as soon as possible tyler@ebay. 

Particularly with the addition of Ayden to the mix.

Even if it were just that those payments were set up to show as Paypal for eBay or Ayden for eBay on billing.

[momcqueen]

I called back tonight and reached an agent within a few minutes; he closed the case. It had come through from the buyer's financial institution as 'not recognized' which isn't quite the same as 'unauthorized' the Customer Service Rep said. I don't quite understand that but my money was 'un-held' and, in the end, that's probably all that I actually care about.

Thanks to everyone for the stellar advice and insight! It is much appreciated.

[tyler@ebay]

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@femmefan1946 wrote:

because on his cc bill the charge showed as being from PayPal and since he didn’t have a PP account

Something else that has to be cleared up about guest accounts.

Those buyers think they are paying from their cards, but the payment is processed through Paypal.

Since guest accounts are probably here to stay, this is something that has to be clarified as soon as possible tyler@ebay. 

Particularly with the addition of Ayden to the mix.

Even if it were just that those payments were set up to show as Paypal for eBay or Ayden for eBay on billing.

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Hi @femmefan1946! I don't have specifics of how a guest checkout will appear on a buyer's bank/card statement through Managed Payments, but I'll ask. 

My guess is that it will appear as eBay, since Adyen acts as a silent processor. But I'm double checking that. 🙂

***Edit to add***

I wasn't ready for how speedily I got a reply! When a buyer uses guest checkout on the new Managed Payments program the buyer's bank/card statement will read as 'eBay', so it should prevent panicked reactions. 🙂

[tyler@ebay]

Hi everyone,

Due to the length of time that has passed since this thread began I have locked it from future replies. If this is still an issue that warrants discussion, don't hesitate to begin a new thread!