eBay

raphael@ebay.com · ‎09-08-2015

Welcome to the 2015 Fall Seller Update discussion thread. Myself and other eBay staff will read all your comments and do our best to respond as our schedules permit.

Thanks!

jt-libra · ‎09-13-2015

@isis1313 wrote:
what's interesting is, it's only packages mailed late in the afternoon for 5 pm pick up, morning pickup and with my mail person(s) don't seem to be affected so we think it's a certain shift that is responsible. We depend on the post office to do their jobs, Halifax already checks the stamps and cancels them and then Montreal turns them around again, what's the point of Halifax even bothering? AND one $5.15 package they marked that they wanted another $5.00....to make it $10.30 would have been $5.15 so that person really doesn't know what the heck they are doing....

This happened to me recently. I had placed $4.10 postage on a bubble envelope addressed to Ontario. It came back with a sticker requesting an additional $6.00. The package was mangled (the contents were fine) and the stamps were cancelled. So I re-sent the item in a box with the increased postage but was told that the only way I could get reimbursement for the cancelled stamps was to take the envelope to the Main Branch of Canada Post in Winnipeg. They used to be downtown but now I believe they're somewhere near the airport. So I'm certainly not going to drive across the city to get my money back. The postal outlets can't reimburse you.

pjcdn2005 · ‎09-13-2015

Out of curiosity are you paying $5.15 for lettermail or $5 for light packet?

pjcdn2005 · ‎09-13-2015

raphael@ebay.com wrote:
@pjcdn2005 wrote:
Defects, feedbacks etc have always been subjective but at least they were based on total transactions. How can it possibly be a fair measurement to base a sellers selling ability on such a small portion of replies?

In the last year out of 461 sales, only 211 buyers left feedback. Some of those buyers didn't check off the dsr's so I'm sure that some will not answer the shipping question. That will mean that the percentage will be based on an even lower amount than what I gave. About 180 buyers filled out the DSR portion so it is possible that only 180 out of 461 buyers would answer that question...just 40 % of my total buyers.
But to be fair, I do ship some things with tracking so 45% is probably closer to the true number that ebay will be judging on. Is that reasonable?

It's the fairest we can be. When a buyer doesn't answer that question, should we assume it was not on time? Should we assume that it was? There is no way to know. It's better to not count that transaction in the metric if we're going to be both fair to those who meet it and work to get data we can rely on.

Yes, you should assume that it was because by not counting those transactions, you are basically assuming that the answer to the question would have been no. Defects were never based solely on the number of people who gave stars or feedback, they were based on total transactions so if a buyer did not leave a star or a feedback, it was if the seller had received a positive feedback with 5 stars. This shouldn't be any different.

How exactly should one 'work' to get date that you can rely on? I try to not to be too dramatic about changes here but if by that you mean those who use tracking, that means that you discount every seller in any country when their product is just not expensive enough to justify tracking. This isn't even a cross border issue. If I send an item by lettermail to BC or Ontario, the cost is $1.80. If I use any other method, the cheapest cost would be from $9 - $13. It is just not feasible to have tracking in some cases. I already give same day shipping to 95% of purchases that were made before 2 p.m. during the week. But that alone does not mean that the item is going to arrive on time or that the buyer is going to answer the question that it did arrive on time. How else would you suggest I 'work' at getting the data that you can rely on?

As far as being fair to those sellers who do use tracking, is it fair that a seller could have a 3% negative/neutral rate compare to another with no negs or neutrals but the first seller gets better search placement because they have tracking? It's never going to be 100% fair for everyone but the way that ebay is going to handle this new metric definitely slants the scale.

Thanks for reading and I hope that you are able to comment.

rainbow71113 · ‎09-13-2015

I tried paying $5.00 but got the first ones back in March and I thought that was the issue so I changed to $5.15 where I don't have to put on a customs declaration-those were going through fine until July

rainbow71113 · ‎09-13-2015

I've never had to claim for cancelled postage since my packages were correct I just had post office workers write all over the package that the shipping is correct-process and the second time they went through without any issues although 3 weeks delayed...I didn't realize we could get credit for the cancelled stamps though, good to know. was your package thicker than 2 cm? that usually is the only reason they stop Canadian envelopes

jt-libra · ‎09-13-2015

@isis1313 wrote:
I've never had to claim for cancelled postage since my packages were correct I just had post office workers write all over the package that the shipping is correct-process and the second time they went through without any issues although 3 weeks delayed...I didn't realize we could get credit for the cancelled stamps though, good to know. was your package thicker than 2 cm? that usually is the only reason they stop Canadian envelopes

I was over by 20 g. I didn't think it was a big deal on a 300 g package .... but it was. So nothing I could blame Canada Post for.

As long as the Canada Post sticker requesting additional postage is still on the package, you can request reimbursement for the cancelled stamps ... or so I was told.

pierrelebel · ‎09-14-2015

I think this question and your answer summarize the problem very well:

Question: "Is there a substantial difference in the ratio of tracking between Canadian listing on eBay.ca and eBay.com?"

Your answer: "Yes, not surprisingly. US sellers have access to low cost tracked services via USPS, something Canadians don't have."

From my perspective, that is the problem. You (eBay) know American sellers have tools to answer your new policy; tools generally not available to Canadian sellers shipping lettermail, letterpost, light packet, etc....

With that knowledge why can't eBay find ways to present a policy to Canadian sellers taking that reality into account. That reality is the result of limited and expensive services offered by your shipping partner, Canada Post.

You (eBay) want sellers to offer a good service to buyers. You (eBay) want to eliminate bad sellers. We all agree to that principle.

So why do you (eBay) design a new policy that clearly disadvantage Canadian sellers?

raphael@ebay.com · ‎09-14-2015

Hello everyone,

First off, I want to thank you for the kind words many of you have written about our involvement in this discussion. We are here with you because we care, even though we don't always have pleasing answers, or no answer at all.

With that, I want to make it clear that each and every post is well read and that notes are taken so that the powers that be get the full signal on what is being expressed by everyone on here. Going forward I will continue to answer as much as I can, time permitting, but I now have to concentrate on what questions have not already been addressed at least in some way. So please accept my apologies in advance if I opt to not answer your specific post, but know that it isn't being ignored at all.

Above all, please continue to post to ask questions, make comments or even just vent off. We are reading it all.

rainbow71113 · ‎09-14-2015

Hello Raphael,

no one seems to have answered this for me

I frequently get buyers who purchase and pay for an item or two and then ask me to hold off shipping the package until they are finished shopping. What date for the estimated handling time will be used for the shipment? the first items purchased and paid for, or the additional ones? I noticed that if a buyer buys an item, and does not pay and I go into my sold area on ebay.com, it will show that date and if they go for 5 days without a purchase and then they add an item it shows the combined invoice on the new date. But what happens when the first item is paid for? will this make problems for combined shipping

momcqueen · ‎09-14-2015

I have a new but related question regarding the specifics of handling time under the new policy. I merely seek confirmation that I am getting this straight.

A seller will have to get an acceptance scan before the end of their business day in order to be considered shipped on time with a tracked item. The business day ends at 11:59 pm, according to 2013 same-day best practices. Scan are only available at postal counters or offices, however, which may close at 6 pm. Does that mean that the new business day ends one minute before when an acceptance scan is no longer available?

(And thank you.)

vintagenorth · ‎09-14-2015

Maureen, you're lucky that you have until 6:00 pm. Around here, the post offices and mailboxes have only one pickup a day, at 4:00 pm. They are pretty prompt too so just in case I have to get my items mailed well before that time in order for them to get on the truck. The post offices close at 5:15 pm and are only open Mon to Fri. Oh, and Sat mornings until noon but with no pickup until Monday at 4:00 pm.

pjcdn2005 · ‎09-14-2015

@isis1313 wrote:
Hello Raphael,
no one seems to have answered this for me
I frequently get buyers who purchase and pay for an item or two and then ask me to hold off shipping the package until they are finished shopping. What date for the estimated handling time will be used for the shipment? the first items purchased and paid for, or the additional ones? I noticed that if a buyer buys an item, and does not pay and I go into my sold area on ebay.com, it will show that date and if they go for 5 days without a purchase and then they add an item it shows the combined invoice on the new date. But what happens when the first item is paid for? will this make problems for combined shipping

Obviously I'm not Raphael but if I'm wrong (or right) he should be able to confirm it. I'm sure that once an item is paid for, that's when your handling time starts...that's how it is now for U.S. TRSplus. If you have a lot of combined shipping orders that people pay for separately and if you use tracking, it would affect you more than some people.

rainbow71113 · ‎09-14-2015

thanks for the info, I guess I'm going to have to adjust my handling time and tell buyers that the order has to be shipped within that time frame. I would say I get a combination order at least once if not more a week and sometimes someone will pay for something then ask me if I have any more similar, then I have to list those and they buy them but there's usually at least a couple of days in between....one person bought 10 magazines, told me to hold off shipping until she got back from holidays and bought another 10 when she got back. a week later-normally I don't care since the first order was paid for but the only thing I can think of is to say "remember if you are leaving feedback that you requested the first part of the order to be delayed" but it still doesn't guarantee that they won't put no when asked if received by a certain date.

pjcdn2005 · ‎09-14-2015

You're right, I wasn't thinking about them being asked about the date.

There really should be a better way to handle situations like this because if the customer doesn't

want it shipped right away, then that shouldn't be a problem. Some of the rules that ebay puts in

ends up causing some sellers to think about how a request is going to affect them rather than how to

best look after the customer. I don't think that is right.

momcqueen · ‎09-15-2015

What if a delivery attempt was made on a tracked parcel on time but the parcel was not delivered until nine business days later?

There are many instances when a buyer is unavailable to receive their parcel. The order is on the truck for delivery on time and a delivery attempt is made on time but the person is not home so that the parcel is sent back to the counter as a Card for Pickup; the recipient has ten business days and two carded notices to pick up their mail before it is sent back.

Does ebay recognize that a delivery attempt was made on time? It might not be marked 'delivered' by Canada Post until ten business days later when the buyer is able to pick it up.

And then how is a buyer supposed to answer That Question? It wasn't delivered by the date cited, but that was based on a decision on the buyer's part not to get it.

Is the new feedback/defect system designed to be intelligent enough catch delivery attempt as opposed to delivered so that sellers aren't penalized unjustly? I really don't want to hear that that is the reason a 'range of defects' are allowable.

Again, only 30 per cent of my buyers leave feedback for me despite me leaving feedback for 100 per cent of my buyers. I will have NO wiggle room on the defect front in the event I am to get my first defect for matters completely beyond my control under the new standards.

p.s. We really do need clarification please on the 'end of business day at 11:59 pm' versus 'acceptance scan availability expires at 5:59 pm' so that those sellers whose post offices close at 6 pm on weekdays are able to plan ahead to adjust their handling times. If there are six less hours in the day now, sellers need to know that; it represents a 25 per cent reduction of workable time.

dinomitesales · ‎09-15-2015

@pjcdn2005 wrote:
Defects, feedbacks etc have always been subjective but at least they were based on total transactions. How can it possibly be a fair measurement to base a sellers selling ability on such a small portion of replies?

In the last year out of 461 sales, only 211 buyers left feedback. Some of those buyers didn't check off the dsr's so I'm sure that some will not answer the shipping question. That will mean that the percentage will be based on an even lower amount than what I gave. About 180 buyers filled out the DSR portion so it is possible that only 180 out of 461 buyers would answer that question...just 40 % of my total buyers.
But to be fair, I do ship some things with tracking so 45% is probably closer to the true number that ebay will be judging on. Is that reasonable?

It's the fairest we can be. When a buyer doesn't answer that question, should we assume it was not on time? Should we assume that it was? There is no way to know. It's better to not count that transaction in the metric if we're going to be both fair to those who meet it and work to get data we can rely on.

-----

I'm sorry to be blunt, but this is the stupidest response I've read here.

If a buyer does not answer the question, or elects to not leave feedback, it should always be assumed that they had a positive selling experience and are satisfied with their purchase. That is all that should matter.

If they were not happy with any aspect of their experience, or were dissatisfied with the time it took for their item to get to them, then they would take it upon themselves to ensure their concerns were heard (i.e. contact the seller, or leave unsatisfactory feedback). What kind of unhappy buyer is going to go "eh, I'm totally not happy, but I'm not going to do anything about it"? Basing a buyer's satisfaction with a selling experience solely on whether or not they received their item before an estimated date is absurd.

When I go to many major retailers they will often include a link on the receipt to complete a survey asking how my experience was as a customer. How many people do you think actually respond to that? Maybe 5-10%? In that case, do you think the retailer makes the assumption that 90-95% of their customers are unhappy?? Of course they don't, because that would be stupid. I know in my experience, I only tend to fill out those surveys when I'm very unhappy and want to complain (I assume this is probably the norm).

If a hypothetical company had one million customers, but only 10,000 responded to the survey, and 5,000 of those responses were reflecting a negative buyer experience, do you think the company would report their "customer satisfaction rate" at 50%, or at 99.5%? The answer should be blatantly obvious.

momcqueen · ‎09-15-2015

dinomitesales wrote:...
If a hypothetical company had one million customers, but only 10,000 responded to the survey, and 5,000 of those responses were reflecting a negative buyer experience, do you think the company would report their "customer satisfaction rate" at 50%, or at 99.5%? The answer should be blatantly obvious.

Nicely put.

raphael@ebay.com · ‎09-16-2015

@rose-dee wrote:

Yes Raphael and Rodney, you've got guts to run the gauntlet here of angry, scared and confused Canadian sellers, and deserve credit for doing so.

We know this wasn't your doing, but I hope that you guys at .ca at least have the ear of someone at eBay HQ on behalf of thousands of Canadian sellers.

Having had more time to consider this situation, I have some more questions:

1) Are these policy changes applicable in the same way to other international sellers (outside the U.S. I mean)?

2) If so, what effect does eBay (not you personally, but HQ) imagine these policies will have on international sellers' willingness and/or ability to sell outside their own borders, considering the horrendously expensive cost of international tracking? Couldn't this also seriously impact buyer selection on eBay?

3) Now that Canadian sellers will be frightened into wanting to use tracking, wouldn't this be the ideal time for eBay Canada to approach Canada Post with a proposal to make tracking available on Small and Light Packet USA at a small premium? They already have bar codes on those labels -- why can't they put them in the tracked stream? Tracked Packet is a silly, redundant service, which is too expensive and duplicates less well what Expedited does at a price that's almost as high. What we need is a reasonably priced tracked service.

This alone, with so many Canadian sellers selling to the U.S., would alleviate a big portion of the trouble with the new policy.

And perhaps also tracking on a particular class (oversize?) of domestic letter mail within Canada? (Although I realize letter mail is a less likely target). ).

Canada Post would have an almost guaranteed eBay buyer base for such services that was not the case up until yesterday.

4) In the above regard, can you tell us what eBay Canada has been doing lately, or plans to do soon, to move this along?

5) Either you or Rodney (I'm sorry I don't recall which) mentioned that eBay tested the new policy on buyers and found buyers' answers to the question of late arrival to be by and large honest.

I'm wondering how eBay knew the answers were honest (i.e. correct vis-à-vis the expected delivery time), unless the test used tracked parcels and there was therefore a way of checking the buyers' answers?

Clearly, if eBay was using tracked parcels for this testing, the results were irrelevant to the Canadian situation, and saying buyers were "honest" (when buyers knew eBay would be able to check up on them via the tracking), is no comfort at all to Canadian sellers.

Hi rose-dee,

Thanks for the kind words.

1) Yes. These changes are global.

2) We don't anticipate a dramatic impact on CBT business as a result of these changes.

3) 100% agree that it would be great if Canada Post were able to offer more affordable rates on their tracked services. We have been engaged with them on this very topic for many years. Ultimately it isn't within our control to dictate or even demand such things. As for how simple it would be to just put Small Packet shipment into the tracked stream, I really can't speak to that but I really doubt it would be that simple.

4) Please see previous response

5) I don't recall saying or reading that. If you see the post where this was said please point me to it and I'll gladly comment.

raphael@ebay.com · ‎09-16-2015

@lumbercanada wrote:

What are you doing to address your cash grab global shipping, when buying multiple items from the same seller. Paying insanely high rates for shipping and import fees. What's even more a slap in the face it's all packaged and sent in ONE box.

I've been burnt once and it will NEVER happen again that i purchase multiple items from the same seller. As far as i am concerned Canada should be exempt from the GSP program. We are paying on items that are exempt from import fees, also your package pirates Pitney Bowes love repacking items and expose them to damage, as they make the boxes smaller and lighter by removing excess weight!

But like always i don't imagine we will hear anything on this just how much the sellers love it, even though you automatically opt them into this "scam" program.

Hi lumbercanada,

We've discussed GSP at length on these forums already, I invite you to search the past topics to see what was said. For now let's keep this thread on topic and keep it about the 2015 Fall Seller Update. Thanks!

raphael@ebay.com · ‎09-16-2015

@isis1313 wrote:

sorry, don't know if this was mentioned or not- I frequently get buyers who purchase and pay for an item or two and then ask me to hold off shipping the package until they are finished shopping. What date for the estimated handling time will be used for the shipment? the first items purchased and paid for, or the additional ones? I noticed that if a buyer buys an item, and does not pay and I go into my sold area on ebay.com, it will show that date and if they go for 5 days without a purchase and then they add an item it shows the combined invoice on the new date. But what happens when the first item is paid for? will this make problems for combined shipping?

Hi isis1313,

Typically the clock starts when payment is received. If a buyer asks you to hold onto the item so they can purchase more to benefit from combined shipping, I would think that the buyer would be diligent enough to know that they caused the first bought item to arrive later than the estimated delivery. If they somehow miss that, you have an email trail with enough proof to appeal the resulting defect.