According to Ebay.............Is this fair to sellers ????

[draco18stampsandcollectables]

If as a seller you offer , in writing , to mail item(s) to a buyer using regular UNINSURED airmail shipped at buyer's risk of loss or damage or , the option of paying for registration or other insured trackable options and the buyer chooses the first option , and then claims that the item has not arrived and wants a full refund.......Ebay says that the seller has to take primary responsibility to ensure delivery and , if in doubt , should cover the cost of registration to protect him or herself.

Now, I'm not saying that the buyer is dishonest but , if the buyer is clearly made aware of the available options(s) ,  and still chooses the less safe route......why should the seller be deemed responsible for the buyer's (bad) choice and the failure of the postal system to deliver ????

Is this fair to the seller who has tried his or her best to inform the buyer accordingly ???

I mean why bother !!!

Sure, there is a resolution center. The said buyer puts in a claim and gets his refund and sure , we can appeal the case with an unknown outcome as decision is made by the resolution center people.

Is this not a case of seller is guilty unless they can prove otherwise ?

Am I missing something ?

[pierrelebel]

"On Ebay , the seller is solely responsible to get the goods to the buyer"

I am not sure why you keeep relating this issue to eBay.

It is more or less universal with mail order.  It does not matter if the seller is very large (LL Bean for example) or very small (individual eBay sellers).  It does not matter if the goods were advertised online, in magazines, newspaper, TV, etc... the responsibility is always on the seller to get the goods to the buyer.  It has nothing to do with eBay.

The buyer pays... the buyer gets the goods... if not, the seller refunds or replace.

[nuvistors]

I buy a car - I have to get insurance. The seller does'nt give me options.

I buy a condo - I have the choice to either buy contents insurance or not. If I don't and the place burns down - Tough for me. The seller does'nt care and neither should he.

I buy a stereo - the seller asks if I want extended insurance - I decline and it does'nt work

1 day after the initial warranty expires - To bad for me. I made the choice as a buyer.

I buy a truck from the states and want it delivered to me in Canada , the seller charges me  delivery insurance...period.....no options.

On Ebay , the seller is solely responsible to get the goods to the buyer ,  even though the seller is not and has no control over the delivering carrier, namely the post office , nor immune from any dishonest buyers. And so , the seller must assume ALL responsibility by insuring themselves by the several means as mentioned in previous posts.

In most things , it's up to the buyer to chose what they want to do to cover themselves against loss or damage or a myriad of other hurdles.

On Ebay and other similar online or mail order companies , not so.

If the seller offers a buyer options , and the buyer declines an insured or trackable

option for an uninsured untrackable mail option , guess what ........the seller will still be on the hook.

Yes yes , I know , those ARE the rules.......but are they fair ?

IMO If the buyer declines extra coverage , then it SHOULD be solely at their own risk , or just decide not to buy the item from that seller.

A fantasy that will never become reality I fear.................

If you hate ebay so much stop whining and  hawk your wares elsewhere

Succesfull sellers use ebay rules to their advantage without  all the moaning.

123

[cumos55]

The choice of postal option is a seller's choice...

Many years ago a buyer always upgraded to insured Lettermail, registered lettermail... It was an upgrade..buyer's choice.

Canada Post's parcel services have included an automatic insurance level of $100... until January 14... where Small packet lost that option.

The fact that insurance is included with a parcel  makes Canada Post different than USPS where insurance is an option.  The only option with business parcel post.

Lettermail is used by many Canadian sellers...  Most will use it for items valued up to about $25...  It works.  Only one claim in many, many years for this seller..... Buyer's do appreciate the lower cost for shipping..

And many times two airmail parcels were shipped because that was less expensive than combined shipping in one parcel... and a few times two lettermail items were shipped in one parcel at no extra cost to the buyer.

There is a bookseller on eBay... Canadian history category  that only lists books that fit the lettermail category... less than 500 grams and less than 2 cm thick....  Seller does very well.

I see many sellers that ship a book for $13.00  with a price of $5... I have shipped the same book for $4.50  and a price of $15.00.....  In one sale there is a $10 buffer if something gets lost...  and that buffer adds up quickly, with the use of lettermail   

100 books shipped by lettermail as opposed to parcel post can be as much as $1000 extra in the sales column...  in the black

It should also be noted that books  are not a scam category.

With lettermail   the full cost of book price , plus tax is at GST = HST = 5 % for all destinations in Canada....

Parcel post requires HST for destination provinces with HST.... Lettermail wins.

Also the TRS discount is calculated on the FVF on the price of the book and not including the cost of shipping.

And if I do give a discount on the price of a book... the discount includes postage.... drops the cost of the item plus postage into the realm of TRS discount on calculated FVF.

eBay makes their billions  one penny at a time....  I make my extra hundreds one penny at a time...

There are many ways to make it on eBay....  

and sometimes the mathematics can get quite convoluted... 

Postage, FVF, GST/HST  and sometimes more.... sometimes lots more....

[cumos55]

Two scenarios...  In both the buyer chooses to have the purchase mailed WITHOUT  insurance and tracking

Scenario 1...

Buyer pays with Paypal....

Buyer receives parcel, and then claims non-receipt with Paypal... Without tracking  Paypal refunds payment...

Seller loses  with no insurance

Scenario 2

Buyer asks if payment can be made with a money order...Seller accepts

Seller receives payment,  cashes money order...

Without insurance and tracking... why mail the purchased item

Buyer claims  he did not receive the purchase...  Seller says he mailed it.

Without tracking and insurance buyer loses.

eBay  sets the rule,,, ... insurance,  tracking, and Paypal....follow this rule  and both seller and buyer wins... 

If the buyer does not receive the purchase  the postal/delivery  service pays insurance claim

Buyer and seller always win....

Over the years  eBay has set the rule, or more appropriately, makes a recommendation... 

Many sellers take this as mandatory.... and in many categories of inventory it must be mandatory

However, adjustments can be made...  based on category in which the sale is made....

Sellers make adjustments  and gain significantly... but not without risks, but not without understanding the risks in relation to category for a sale.

Terms of sale will always be a seller's option.  Sellers decide based on their knowledge of eBay in relation to what they sell.

New sellers to eBay need guidance ... ebay provides that guidance.....With experince adjustments can be made by each seller....

[draco18stampsandcollectables]

Nuvistor:

I apologised to you for my post in the Canada forum

Now I see you made a comment on my blog  and I quote :

If you hate ebay so much stop whining and  hawk your wares elsewhere

Succesfull sellers use ebay rules to their advantage without  all the moaning.

I NEVER said I hate Ebay. In fact , in one post I even said it's a great venue and have said as much in surveys Ebay sends me from time to time. so don't go accusing me of something I never said or even implied.

I AM a successful seller on Ebay..... if you bothered to look at my feedback.

I am always looking for constructive feedback and information here , not false accusations and drivel.

If YOU don't like my posts , don't read them and don't reply unless you have something intelligent to say.

[treasure.hunter.d]

Take a look at insurepost.com

Their rates are very reasonable and the process is very simple. Once you are signed up it only takes a couple of minutes to insure your shipments.

Cheers.

[draco18stampsandcollectables]

Hello : treasure.hunter.d

Many thanks for this info.

I checked the site out and it may be of great benefit to me.

Much appreciated

[treasure.hunter.d]

With the cost of insuring being so low through them I try to squeeze it in to every shipment if I possibly can. Only on items that are very fragile/heavy that are already costing me a huge chunk to ship do I ever ask the buyer to contribute. Even then if the buyer opts out I will still insure it anyway for my piece of mind. shhhhhhh, lol. Honestly though, most folks I have dealt with are pretty understanding about it and for that i am thankful. I'm not a huge seller but I feel I got to Top Seller and Power Seller pretty fast as I have only been selling since April of last year and I attribute that to being open and honest especially about things like shipping that can be a mystery to buyers who don't have any experience selling and let's face it, that's most of them.

Anyway, I'm glad that you found my info about insurepost.com useful.

Cheers,

thd

[i*m-still-here]

P******........... Well……….. after the way you lit into me time and time again why would you be surprised that I'd point out inconsistencies in your posts?

It's not retaliatory, but every time I read your advice about insurance I notice the inconsistency between the way you posted that you  used to insure and your advice to others.

Yet, I have never commented until now, and in spite of everything I am still polite about it....... :).......... (which you certainly were not when you disagreed with one of posts).

You once posted that you insure everything you ship but your advice to others has often been in direct contrast to that.

You asked me: Which part of this do you not understand?

That't the part.

I don't like to get personal too often as I'm sure you've noticed......... but since you asked:

When on eBay I'm mainly a buyer.

However, I sell on line every day as well and as such do know how insurance works.

I've been shipping for decades.

I have shipped from Post Offices, Truck Lines, and especially Arirport Cargo.

I've shipped from all over the world............. Hong Kong, Australia, Thailand to name but a few locations. (Every continent but Africa (so far).)

I started to buy on ebay because ............. well............. I had health issues and could no longer walk and travel as I used to.

Ebay is the perfect tool in that condition.

Now, thanks to modern medicine I'm mobile again........... never thought it would happen.

[pierrelebel]

"I don't like to get personal too often"

That's funny!

You keep doing it over and over and over. It's like I have my own shadow following me from thread to thread!

The is no inconsistency in my advice on insurance.  I am sorry you do not understand it.  Thankfully most readers do.

[tobyshitzu]

"With the cost of insuring being so low through them"

Insurepost is just another name for the oft mentioned shipinsurance with exactly the same posted rates. Do you really think $1.50 per $100 or less value for the uninsured CP services is cheap? Its just mind boggling to me that people don't seem to get that the insurer already knows they'll take in much more from those insuring then they'll ever give back.  As soon as it gets even close to not being like they will make the claim very difficult and refuse further business, as many psots on .com will attest too

[pjcdn2005]

I buy a car - I have to get insurance. The seller does'nt give me options.

The government requires you to have insurance, not the seller.

I buy a condo - I have the choice to either buy contents insurance or not. If I don't and the place burns down - Tough for me. The seller does'nt care and neither should he.

I buy a stereo - the seller asks if I want extended insurance - I decline and it does'nt work

1 day after the initial warranty expires - To bad for me. I made the choice as a buyer.

In all above cases, you have the product in hand and can see what the condition of the item is. If you bought the car on a Sunday and on Friday when you went to pick it up, it has a new dent in it, it would be the seller's responsibility, not the buyers. If the car was stolen before you picked it up, the seller would be responsible. If the condo burnt down before you took position, it would be the seller's responsibility.

Once you pay for a purchase and take it away ( or live in it) the item becomes your responsibility.(with some exceptions)  The seller has no control how you handle the item once you take it away.

In retail sales, online or otherwise, the seller is responsible until the buyer receives and approves of the transactions...just like when you bought that stereo, car or condo.

I buy a truck from the states and want it delivered to me in Canada , the seller charges me  delivery insurance...period.....no options.

It is your choice whether or not you are willing to pay that insurance or else go shop for another vehicle....so yes, there are options.

[cumos55]

We are talking to  a general audience.

Sometimes what a seller does is specific to their business and does not apply to everyone.

Many people come to learn, and never post.

So we talk about eBay in general,  applicable to everyone and not necessarily to one specific seller.

Learn about the specifics and leave it at that....and if you can use the specifics, so be it.

Contribute... not contradict... and we  will all be happy...

[cumos55]

Canada's standards for a vehicle are different than that of the US....  

and if it does not meet those Canadian standards it will never cross into Canada...

[draco18stampsandcollectables]

Scenario:

Okay , let's assume that I am now a buyer.......I buy $230.00 worth of stamps which can easily be shipped in a regular size envelope.

The seller says that I have the option to upgrade and pay for let's say Xpresspost with full upgraded insurance.

Do I pay for the upgrade and if things go south , I will not be out of pocket , or do I decline because I know that I will be able , through Ebay buyer protection , to get my money back since it's solely the seller's responsibility ,  according to the rules , for non-delivery.

I'd be crazy not to take option 2 and so place all the responsibility onto the shoulders of the seller right ?

As a seller , I have often given buyers options. Some take me up on it and tell me that they are glad that they have choices (perhaps they don't know about Buyer Protection) and that it is not always about cost but about speed as well.

Some don't , and I am happy to say that so far , nothing has gone lost.

I have received a lot of good information on this blog and can now clearly and level headedly make necessary adjustments to my selling practices and wish to thank everyone (except one person), for all their patient input.and hope that others have benefited as well.

[treasure.hunter.d]

And at that point it will be time to move on to another option. $1.25 or $1.50 is squat to me. I don't sell penny items and usually my very low priced items I will self insure. So yes, they are very affordable and I have had absolutely no issues running claims through them. insurepost.com rates give me piece of mind. If you know of a cheaper service then by all means enlighten us. For me anyway, shipping from Canada, the post will not insure anything they deem fragile so their included insurance isn't worth anything.

But I would be very interested if you can point me at a cheaper service.

[treasure.hunter.d]

"With the cost of insuring being so low through them"

Insurepost is just another name for the oft mentioned shipinsurance with exactly the same posted rates. Do you really think $1.50 per $100 or less value for the uninsured CP services is cheap? Its just mind boggling to me that people don't seem to get that the insurer already knows they'll take in much more from those insuring then they'll ever give back.  As soon as it gets even close to not being like they will make the claim very difficult and refuse further business, as many psots on .com will attest too

Oh, and btw, exactly what difference should it make to me how much money they are making? What difference does it make to you how much money I am making? We're all in business to make money. So long as they offer me reasonably priced insurance and pay out on claims who cares what they are making. I think your mind gets boggled far to easily lol...

But again, point me at a cheaper service and I will use it.

[cumos55]

Purchase $230 of stamps... ship as a parcel

I would charge buyer a minimum of $10 within Canada...  pay for full insurance.

Signature is not required until the total for the stamps plus shipping is $325 Canadian dollars...

At $230  the extra cost for Canadian shipping would be irrelevant to the total transaction

As I sold  more on eBay  I  looked more at total of what all buyers  paid  for shipping for all transactions compared to the amount paid for postage by me...also for all transactions.

If I were the seller  the charge would be minimal for postage, with me paying for insurance....

Maybe even free shipping for Canada, and an adjusted charge for the US ($10) and elsewhere ($20 to $25  airmail) ....

No signature required....

to US... Expedited parcel

International ...  International Parcel airmail

[pierrelebel]

"pay for full insurance"

Does Canada Post pay claims for non-receipt if the declared value is "postage stamps"?

[tobyshitzu]

"Oh, and btw, exactly what difference should it make to me how much money they are making?"

Because what they make (and their costs) is what the sellers buying their insurance lose.  They add no value at all, just keep a spread (large %) between what they charge sellers and the amount of the sellers own money they give back in claims

"piece of mind" is the refrain of insurance sellers everywhere.  Doesn't mean it makes any sense.   My mind is a lot happier knowing I still have most of the near $10k I would have thrown away over the years 1.50 at a time on their insurance