An "unrefund" automated option for buyers for late arriving packages?

[ricarmic]

Today as I deal with another case for a package not yet arrived (Brazil, 6 weeks in but likely 3 weeks to go) by providing a refund I had an idea.

The process is very straightforward now for a buyer to request action when a package has not yet arrived and me to "fix" it -  all I have to do is click on the "send refund" and all the behind the scenes stuff is completed.

I looked back and so far this year almost 50%of my refunds due to missing packages, were later "undone" because later the package arrived and the (honest) buyer let me know so I could bill them again. Now I do send a specialized message telling them I'm out 100% and asking them to let me know when it arrives, which seems to work pretty good. "Undone" is a little overstated because I'm left with a defect each time.

If there was an automatic process for the buyer to "unrefund" a refund sent to them, within say 90 days of receiving it, that automatically undid the refund and the related defect(s) that would be awesome.

I think something like this, would aid the sellers remaining brave enough to ship to the Latin American, Asian etc countries that tend to have long delivery times and as a result issues like this.

This probably isn't the right place for putting this forward but since I don't usually attend the weekly or whenever board hour, if someone else thinks its a good idea who does attend and wants to put it forward that would be awesome....

[dutchman48]

Anything that will help sellers would be great, but when was the last time Ebay did anything policy or procedure wise to help sellers.

[pjcdn2005]

I like the idea but I doubt that ebay would agree to remove a defect in that situation. They've made it clear that if a customer has to contact you about not receiving their parcel, then it is not a 'good' buying experience. I think that the only exception is if they contact you and the tracking shows that the package was delivered.

[ricarmic]

It will be interesting to see how they handle international selling to riskier countries over the course of time.

We've already seen the "extra protection" effort on the .COM side if you ship to the more risky countries. 

While the "defects" situation is eBay's reaction to buyer fears which translate into buyers not buying, eBay will probably eventually react to sellers "fears" regarding shipping to more difficult countries like Latin America, Asia etc which results in sellers withholding their goods from buyers in those countries.

If enough sellers block the Latin American etc countries because of too many problems, eBay has to decide if they are willing to lose that market, or if not, they have to entice the sellers to take the risk, like they attempted with the "extra protection" initiative.

It will be interesting to see how it unfolds.

It would be nice for them to introduce something that lets the buyers take an action that undoes a defect in the appropriate situations, that is my hope that early INRs would be one of them....

[pjcdn2005]

We've already seen the "extra protection" effort on the .COM side if you ship to the more risky countries. 

Are you referring to the following announcement?  It's on the .ca board now so it must include Canadian sellers as well.

http://announcements.ebay.ca/2014/12/16/7660/

[2014sportsterguy]

I honestly do not see the merit of shipping worldwide from a small seller's view? Why take so many risks when we all know feedback can make or brake a small seller.


Feedback is my main reason not to invest to much time and energy on this venue, we can handle most obstacles but feedback is not one of them even with
excellent work ethics.

[pjcdn2005]

It's up to you where you want to ship of course but I don't decide where I ship to based on what sort of feedback I might or might not get. Besides, I don't think that I am any more likely to have problems with international buyers in general although in some cases, I do limit the countries that I ship to. But that's based on risk tolerance and has nothing to do with feedback.

I do think a seller can be proactive and prevent some problems by contacting buyers once their item is shipped to give them a reasonable eta for their package. That personal contact reminds people that shipping might take longer than they expected it to and I also think that it makes the seller seem more like a real person to the buyer...rather than a nameless online seller.

[craftycanadianarts]

If you don't mind me asking why not just add a shipping cost to buyers outside the US/Canada and then ship small packet air.  I used to sell into brazil and my items where usually there in 9 days or so.

[ricarmic]

Hi Pjcd!

I thought I saw somewhere that the extra protection only applied to US sellers, I will have to watch and see if my defect appears or disappears at next reporting time! That would be awesome if it did!

This latest buyer from Brazil, I did send a special wording to advise that the package could take 6-10 weeks to arrive which is normal for airmail deliveries to Brazil in my experience for packages that go through customs. However it was in English and when they opened the case, everything was in Portuguese so I guess the effort in English was lost....

Hi Crafty!

I only send and offer airmail shipping. My experience is that countries like those in South America often take 6 to 10 or more weeks to arrive, if the package goes through their customs there despite the fact it goes airmail. 

[rose-dee]

Hi 'ricarmic'  (and Happy New Year in advance!) -- You make some very good observations and comments in this string.  

I too wondered whether the "new seller protections" for selling to those 34 international countries would ease up the risk for us Canadian sellers.  However, my understanding was that it applied to U.S. sellers (.com) using the GSP.  

I'll try to make a point of asking this question at the next Wed. meeting.  I think it's not only important for Canadian sellers to be able to feel confident in selling to most places worldwide, but important for eBay not to cut off a whole area of international sales.  The defect system has made it rather risky (as you've discovered) to sell to certain parts of the world.  I personally have restricted my sales mainly to the US, Canada, Europe, Australia, NZ and a few select Asian countries with decent postal systems (such as Japan).  Mind you, the main categories in which I sell probably have limited appeal in non-English speaking countries. 

Perhaps eBay is seeing a big rise in international INR claims and a proportionate fall in the number of sellers selling worldwide.  They may have scared a lot of sellers off, now they're trying to win them back, typically with another layer of policy/rules on top of one that was flawed.  

[pjcdn2005]

One of the reps did say on the weekly board session that it was for U.S. sellers only. But since the announcement was posted on the Canadian announcement board a couple of weeks after that, I suspect that has changed.

[tobyshitzu]

Very  ebay like for that to just appear without announcement.  Americans still have it better being no international transactions don't affect their domestic status at all.  They didn't remove defects I already had that won't count according to that page

Another weird thing, just went to cancel a transaction and the whole list of reasons is back instead of just two choices it had quietly changed to  

[pjcdn2005]

However, my understanding was that it applied to U.S. sellers (.com) using the GSP.  

The announcement is not just for gsp sellers as they have always had protection from defects for gsp related transactions.

[pjcdn2005]

Ebay is predictable in that it is usually unpredictable. However, since they included defects that happened long before they announced the defect program, I'm not surprised that they haven't removed a defect that should no longer be counted.

[pjcdn2005]

---

@craftycanadianarts wrote:

If you don't mind me asking why not just add a shipping cost to buyers outside the US/Canada and then ship small packet air.  I used to sell into brazil and my items where usually there in 9 days or so.

---

It's common for air parcels to take weeks for Brazilians to receive because the customs process can be very slow.

[roadie16]

Nothing to really add to this conversation, however I was one of your "buyers" where there were an issue with usps showing no movement on on item. After a period of time I requested and did receive a quick refund. The package did finally arrive and was re-invoiced with prompt payment.

I want to thank you for being very professional throughout this transaction.

I am from Canada but also use a US package depot for most of my US purchases as this makes things a lot easier for all of us.

Shipping rates to Canada are ridiculous and with the added cost of currency exchange, tolls for entering the US etc., it sometimes is hard to justify buying outside of our country.

Again, thank you ric armic.

[ricarmic]

Hi Rose! Happy new year in advance to you (and to everyone else reading this thread!).

Thank you for raising it at the weekly board hour, I will be very interested to see what they say!

I will watch the defect situation around that lot from Brazil, I suspect it will show up then later it will be in the "undone" ones they advise me of each month (although I've never really figured out what all it is that they "undid" but that is a different story!)  if I do qualify for an "undoing".

It will be great if it does apply to Canadian sellers, however I have made the choice to sell on .COM and I do have the option of selling on .CA which I have chosen not to do; so I really can't be expecting them to do too awful much given the choices I've made.

[ricarmic]

Hi Roadie!

Thank you for your kind words.

My normal process is pretty simple, I really just try to treat my customers like I'd like to be treated if the roles were reversed.

Despite the "cost" (aka defects in the current state) I try to do things to demonstrate to the buyers, when there are frustrating situations, that I am earnest in trying to work with them to make it better. Refunding sooner than later is one way of demonstrating that.

Sometimes language barriers make this more difficult, I have been doing more translating from English to German, Chinese, Russian, Japanese, Portuguese etc in the last month than in months before this, and have had a lot more trouble trying to get concepts across in those situations.

Anyway, I am glad that they way the situation was handled did what it could to make an unpleasant situation a bit more positive, thank you for sharing your thoughts!

[ricarmic]

I do think that my "I will ship to anywhere" and the fact that I do not have any restrictions on my selling increases the visibility of my items by landing me higher in the cassini search results.

I believe, based on how my "outside North America" sales are solid/growing, it is so far proving to be an advantage to me.

However these are just my beliefs, I have no real proof, but it is how I console myself when I'm spending hours on one of the troublesome situations with a new/confused buyer, or one where there are delivery or expectations issues/frustrations, or of course a "loss".

[ricarmic]

As an addendum, keep in mind my observations and experiences are for my "stamp world" - if I were selling IPhone5s or movies, or antiques or something else I would likely be doing things differently.