Buyer Threatens Chargeback-Don't Understand PS support message

[gloriaguides]

I had a sale a couple weeks ago of a large book that I assumed I was going to have to send expedited. I stated $5 US postage from Canadians because of this assumption. A person in Winnipeg bought it for opening and paid the $8.99 through Paypal. I got to the PO and was going to pay the 7.49 + tax actual amount when my postal friend told me it could go lettermail for $2.10. Well, I debated internally for a few seconds and took the $2.10 rate. I decided that if it didn't show up, I'd be refunding (no tracking), but if it did, I'd have turned a $1.50 loss into a $3 profit. Okay, you can guess the rest...buyer got mad. However, I think that since the postage was stated in the auction and she could decide whether she wanted to pay the $3.99 + 5 shipping for the book and I delivered the book (metaphorically speaking anyway) to her door, the difference in the postage is mine to keep, not refundable to the buyer-she agreed to pay a certain amount and it was delivered. Anyway, she writes and asks, I tell her how it was and also that I'd lost $15 on another mailing that day. She emailed back and threatened to do a chargeback if I didn't payapl her the $4. I basically told her no, she negged me, I followed up on my feedback to her and everyone is square, pretty much. I asked PS support via email (I'm bronze) if she could do this. The response I got was: (surrounded by standard generic stuff):


As a seller myself, I can truly understand your concern about charge
back and fraud. We take abuse of the system very seriously at eBay, and
buyers who abuse the charge back function and/or commit fraud will be
investigated.

Note that the investigations team does not investigate situations where
the seller is charging too much shipping.

If the seller has a stated policy concerning shipping, handling and
payment terms on the item listing or storefront, then the buyer must
clear any exceptions to this before actually entering into the
transaction.

For more information on our investigations team, please visit the
following link:

http://pages.ebay.ca/help/confidence/programs-investigations.html

So, does this mean he thinks I should send it to Investigations (although it doesn't exactly fit any of their investigatible categories) or would it only be if she actually tries to charge-back?? Can someone interpret this for me?

[jaymor8]

Geeezus Glo - that's rough, girl. You just happened upon a buyer who pays attention to those details. And too, one who's nose is out of joint because you made a buck or two.

I'm like you in that my fees are standard and sometimes I pay out of pocket and sometimes I pocket some change. But, I learned the hard way to be careful of both.

Cheer up,

Jackie...

[deltone]

Sorry to hear this happened to you Gloria. It sucks for sure. I put a stip in my TOS that if shipping cost is for US only, and if in Canada you must email me for exact quote as the cost differs from within Canada. At this point, not sure I'd bother with going further with this. I'm not sure how to interpret ebay's response as it's just a bunch of double talk.

[jaymor8]

Deb - you hit the nail right on the head re the double talk. But, I think that's a fine idea about your adendum to your TOS. That could be a very wise thing to do especially now with the loonie being so high. The US dollar amount just doesn't cover the difference anymore. I may consider doing that myself, at leat until the enconomy takes another nose dive.

Morning all :))

Jackie...

[gloriaguides]

Actually, I do state in my TOS what I charge for postage within Canada. That's why i didn't think I had to give it back to her. If I had to exact shipping costs all the time, I'd be spending so much time determining tit rather than listing/hunting/ etc. Funny thing is, I never would have figured the stupid book could go lettermail-it's an oversized book. Anyway, I guess I'll drop the whole thing--the neg is almost off my first page, by the time i start selling again after Xmas it'll be in the last 6 mos category and there is enough other good feedback that I don't think anyone will care. It was the way she asked and that she demanded the $4 or she'd do a chargeback that peeved me off. I decided to take a neg rather than give in to that kind of BS. I refund if I've made a mistake on the item--it's not that the $4 means alot to me, just her approach. She's a cheap buyer anyway--only buys on dirt cheap opening prices. Of course, if she actually tries a charge back, I'll definitely send the email to the Investigation department. And I sure as heck will never receive the book should she send it back. Thanks for the commiserating guys--having lots of fun this week-2 parcels missing but one guy is really nice, the other okay about it as long as I refund next weekend if it doesn't come. Small prices to pay for all the un-insured packets I send out. In desperate need of my upcoming vacation, GLori

[doc_scribe]

I'm new to the PS program, but this is a subject close to--if not my heart, then certainly--my pocketbook.

I deal in DVDs which typically go out bubble-packed via airmail at a 'flat' N. Am. rate, and whenever they're thin enough to "go through the slot" they can even be sent as oversized lettermail + weight. Not only is this considerably cheaper than shipping the same item as a small package, but also faster and safer (since the item travels with other fairly light, usually paper-based mail).

After reading some of these posts though, I'm surprised that I haven't had more resistance to this 'flat' shipping rate over its seeming bias against local/regional buyers. My interpretation of that general lack of fuss is that most buyers implicitly understand a 'flat' rate means "you win some, you lose some, but it all averages out". And whenever anyone in Canada has really felt burned and questioned me about it, I've always knocked down my shipping a bit or offered it to them at par (my auctions are in US because 85% of my sales are south of the border or overseas). In any case, I have never had a chargeback over shipping--though I know I just cursed that!

What I want to know is, if you state a 'flat' rate in your listing, isn't that--or shouldn't it be--enough? Is that really any different than setting a higher-than-market-average reserve*...or BIN price*? Isn't your shipping rate simply another condition buyers accept (or don't) when they decide to bid (or not)?

* neither of which I've ever used...auction only here.

[can-import]

Fees stated in the auction... keep it like that.

Buyers must know that shipping & handling fee doesnt only cover shipping fees but also handling fees (as stated in the title) so it covers time to prepare shipping, box, stuff to make package safe, etc...

I never only charge the shipping... I always add a few bucks to cover my fees and time.

[www-labels4less-com]

I had this happen where a customer stated it is "ebay policy" to charge actual freight. I pointed them to the Ebay-o-rama page where ebay sells logo'd merchandise with the ebay name on it. I pointed out that Ebay charges a total of $16.00 U.S. shipping to canada for a single purchase of 1 pen. (6 + 10 extra for canada). The buyer had no right to be upset since they saw the shipping charge prior to bidding.

[amberwoodottawa]

I come out ahead on the actual shipping charges in most cases but here is how I look at it:
I drive to a packing company where I purchase jumbo rolls of bubble wrap, boxes, tape, tape gun, box cutters, markers, pens, scissors etc. I then take all of those supplies back to where I ship.

It can take 10-15 minutes and sometimes more to special pack our instruments so that they arrive safely, often boxes have to be custom-made (7 out of 10 times).

If a customer walked into a store to purchase the same thing, he is purchasing it without any of that type of packaging care, but he is taking full responsibility for the goods the minute he has paid for it and walks out of the store.

It is completely different when we are shipping our products and I guarantee that if my son who does the excellent job of packing wasnt my partner, there is no way the little extra we sometimes get could pay someone else's salary to pack the instruments.

So just remember when you are charging for the postage only, who paid for the bubble-wrap envelope and your gas to the post office to mail it and your time?

Malcolm

[gloriaguides]

Exactly Labels!! I felt I had every right to keep the extra--I took the neg (got buried on page 2 already!) and am hopeing that she tries a chargeback. I'll get her out of ebay so fast she won't know which way to exit. I state shipping in my auctions and that's the end of it. You pay it or you don't and then it is my responsibilty to get it to her mailbox. i really felt strongly that i shouldn't be pushed around over that (since I had stated the S/H fee in my auction, not agreed to charge whatever the PO charges). Now, I always do try to include a 50 cent "handling" fee, just to cover some of my paypal costs-which I accept for the buyers convenience, but if I win a few (I lose alot more!) then I'm going to keep the difference.

[muminlaw]

Glori - I'm with Malcolm on this! You must figure your expenses to mail, including packaging materials, time and postage, plus cost to go to the PO in your handling. If you happen to make a couple of cents over your costs, well you earned it! And you don't owe any apologies to your buyer! You state your terms, they bid knowing your terms, end of story!!

Welcome home Malcolm -- did you have a good shopping trip?

Glenda

[your-chic-shopper]

Small note very important reguarding Shipping LETTERs


If you open a Canada Post account .....you can also send letter mail as well and be charged letter rate


very.... very.....very..... very ...your shipping cost will not show on the letter CP shipped

Your customer will never see your cost ...or ever compalin again


Email me if you have questions

Todd

[shooger]

Well it has already been said but I'll add my 2c CND.

I charge a base rate of $1.50 for the first auction, and $0.50 for each after the first, if paid in the same PayPal payment. Almost everything is sent in an envelope, which of course costs me only 65c postage (or 48c within Canada). That's 65c CND, not USD. So for their $1.50 US, my customers get 65c CND worth of postage, and they don't complain. Some sellers dealing in the same thing (collectible cards) charge $3 or $4, with no discount on multiple items paid together. My shipping cost generally covers my postage as well as my PayPal fees, and sometimes even part of the eBay fees. By keeping it simple and efficient, as well as reasonable, I do fairly well.

Now, keep in mind the US stamps are going up to 80c in January. I'll probably have to bump my shipping charge up to $2 to stay on track, unfortunately.

[doc_scribe]

Thanks for your thoughts folks. I didn't think there was anything unseemly about a 'flat' and 'inclusive' shipping rate, but I thought I'd ask.

Steve