CRA and Powersellers

fenian
Community Member
Like a lot of you, I just received the email confirming that CRA has the final go-ahead (as of Nov 7) to obtain 2004/05 sales records. As part of the message, I note they will seeking court orders to access records for all subsequent years as well. Could be interesting times for some folks out there.
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CRA and Powersellers

Danvil "i am removing my power seller status right now."

???

To what purpose?

Your legal responsibility to declare your business income (and pay your income tax like everyone else) has nothing to do with your PowerSeller icon. .
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Message 21 of 50
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CRA and Powersellers

Frank you need to use the "src img" tag for your signature! .
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Message 22 of 50
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CRA and Powersellers

lina-mallows
Community Member
How absolutely specific was the Court's ruling of eBay requirement to turn over Power Seller information?

There are certainly some sellers- with LARGE values of sales, who for one reason or another, never became Power Sellers.

IS THEIR INFORMATION BEING TURNED OVER?

So, to say that Power Sellers represent ALL of the HIGHEST level of sales, on eBay, would certainly be incorrect.

Further, many Power Sellers (ourselves included) represent almost insignificant amounts of actual profit, based on revenues of less than $10,000 gross. And, we have been registered, and reporting GST since Feb of 1991.

The biggest issue we had to deal with in an earlier audit is that we sell many ZERO rates supplies (fountain chocolate- for which we sought and obtained a formal ruling of the tax status)- so regardless of where they are sent in Canada, and beyond- there is no tax to remit, only the sale to declare. However, as a manufacturer, many inputs are rated, and create INPUT TAX CREDITS. (bags, labels, etc.)
This can get confusing, and most people selling on eBay do not deal with ZERO rated supplies.
On top of that- at times, we sell to BOTH levels of the Government, Provincial, and Federal, and they have their own rules as to whether they pay, or do not pay tax to each other, or themselves. Further- we provide normally taxable products delivered directly to Indian Reserves- another situation for totally tax exempt sales.

Bottom line-our GROSS eBay sales have little relation to the GST/HST collected, or remitted. And everyone's situation is so different that professional advice is always a good thing.

AND- KEEP ALL YOUR RECEIPTS- regardless of how insignificant you may believe them to be.
Message 23 of 50
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CRA and Powersellers

If you have the results of an earlier audit on file with the CRA they should be able to check your files and note that you are selling zero rated items, items to reserves, etc. In my many GST audits once they looked at my file they really did not bother checking figures closely once they saw I had a legitimate reason for having more input tax credits than sales.

There was a time that many fly by night operators registered for GST, declared minimal sales and tax collected, and large expenses and resulting input tax credits, and receive a nice cheque from the GST people. After that scam started appearing those who had a legitimate business that got refund cheques were frequently audited to make sure that they were real businesses.
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CRA and Powersellers

motivation_store
Community Member
cilset - your situation is very common. I have sold items for my mom, sister, and friends on ebay. Their computers, phones, etc. This is why CRA CANNOT take the ebay figures as gospel truth for what is going on. For example, I tried to sell a cell phone once, and got 3 non paying bidders. So in ebay it looks like I made 4 sales for $2000 but I only got paid $500. You see, ebay figures do not tell the entire story. I used to sell electronics on ebay and once this fool bought everything in my store out of spite for a miscommunication. 500 items priced at $200 each, just to piss me off. There are tons of stories like that on ebay. This is why I truly believe, that once they start seeing how much complex this can get, they will focus on the obvious cases of carelessness. The big sellers with huge discrepancies in their sales and that do not collect taxes from their sales. That is if they do anything at all with this information.
Message 25 of 50
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CRA and Powersellers

If you run a business, by law you are required to:

1 Collect and remit all aplicable sales taxes.
2 File a tax return for each business.
3 Keep records for 5 years

The basic rule of thumb when dealing with Revenue Canada is that the onus is on you to provide proof that supports your claims. If CRA says you owe them X dollars, you either pay it or prove you don't.

The basic scenario goes something like this. CRA obtains financial information indicating that GST is owed or taxes are owed. CRA may do one of several things as noted above:

a. Telephone call to discuss discrepencies aka(mini audit)

b. Order an audit in person at the business location or the local Revenue Canada office.

c. Issue a determination based on available information stating CRA estimates you owe them X dollars. Please send cheque here within thirty days or contact CRA with documentation disputing the assessment.

As far as the federal government is concerned, there are 2 issues... undeclared income and gst not paid on domestic sales. Given the state of the economy and the looming deficit announcement later this month, the CRA can and will persue both liabities agressively, so don't cottle yourself into beleiving they won't be asking someone for as little as 200.oo, because they most certainly will.

As for the issue of collecting and filing sales taxes either provincially or GST, the law requires that a business charge, collect, file and remit. There are NO exceptions. However.... each revenue department will have a threshhold for filing and remitting to releive their burdon, but that in no way releives one from remitting the taxes that should have been collected if one is requested to do so by the particular revenue department.

For example, the province of Ontario does not require you file and remit PST collected of $200 or less in a calander year. But, as matter of course, they can require you to file a PST return for up to 5 years and remit ANY monies owed. You can also take it upon yourself to file those returns and remit the taxes owed and promise to be more timely next year. Problem solved.

For GST the same applies, but I can't put my finger on the threashold number at the moment. Since becoming automated they like to get the returns whether funds are owed or not. If it's a small amount one can apply for quarterly or yearly filing periods. I actually had a GST audit the other week, it was a 1 minute phone call, but then I have the numbers readily available. If you owe GST, whether you collected it or not, you can sneak it by if you add it all up and file the return with remitance with a note that this period accounts for previous unresolved collections. The end of the fiscal year is a good time.

If you don't file any PST/GST returns, then you have the same options. Do it soon or wait till they ask for it. Revenue departments are unlikely to impose penalties for smaller amounts and for home based businesses, they will be very accomodating if you want to spread the payments over time. Personally, I have delt with every level of Revenue Canada all the way up to the Deputy Minister, who is actually the guy in charge, mostly in consulting capacities although I did have a disagreement with Customs, which I won but they decided not to provide relief for past instances and keep the money owed anyway...

If you have income from your eBay business and have not reported it, or have never filed a sales tax return, seek legal counsel. While CRA is known for being very draconian , they can also be very accomodating if you go to them and say “ooppps I made a mistake”.

For the average eBay home business, one should prepare for the possible day of reconning without any fear, but start setting aside any monies owed now so it doesn't come as a bad joke when you least expect it, or put togeather supporting documentation for your position so you don't get stressed out later if you need it.

There is one thing to remember though, that bares heavily on all this... Are you actually running a real business or is selling on eBay a hobby.... This is why Revenue Canada went after Power Seller records as Power Seller is a strong indication of an actual business that should be complying with all the applicable requirements, like records, annual statements, business number, sales tax filing etc....

Oh, and good luke to whoever said they are going to quit Power Seller..... every heard of the Hotel California :^O
Message 26 of 50
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CRA and Powersellers

new-id
Community Member
no records = screwed
Message 27 of 50
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CRA and Powersellers

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=9af14c4e-c019-4c7f-a408-1c3df2b45788

At least it made the news:-D
Message 28 of 50
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CRA and Powersellers

fenian
Community Member
I note the article uses the expression "make as little as $1,000 US to more than $150,00 a month in sales". The inference for readers is that "make" equals "net", ignoring that what one grosses isn't always the same as what one nets. Also, the article states "All eBay transactions are done in U.S. dollars". Is that what CRA believes ? What about sales on eBay Canada which are stated in Canadian dollars, or sales on eBay UK which are stated in GB pounds ? Has CRA had any training in how the whole eBay thing works ? As sellers, heaven knows all of us have a tough time figuring out "the whole thing works" !!
Message 29 of 50
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CRA and Powersellers

"Has CRA had any training in how the whole eBay thing works ?"

They may have got some training from me! 😞

When my 2004 and 2005 GST/HST and income tax returns were audited last year, the auditor explained they had little knowledge about eBay/PayPal. They were looking for an education which explained why so much time was spent on my audit (it lasted six months).

When asked why so much time was spent on that file with little chance of re-assessment, the auditor explained it was a learning experience for herself and her local manager.

On the other hand, from an income tax point-of-view, the point of sale (eBay, other online venue or brick and mortar store) does not really change how the bookkeeping must be done, how files must be maintained and available when requested.

From an tax audit viewpoint, they are trying to find where money could have gone missing and unreported. They were concerned with the ability to withdraw from PayPal without reporting. After having gone through every single PayPal transactions in my account for several months, they have a better understanding of the system.

The basics are always the same: a merchant adds his sales, substract his cost of goods and business related expenses and report the net profit (sales minus cost minus expenses) as a business income on his tax return.

Ar the end of the day, a taxpayer better not try to file yearly net income of only $20,000 when spending $40,000 a year after year to live on. .
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Message 30 of 50
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CRA and Powersellers

An article in a CanWest newspaper written by the typical moron they hire shouldn't be relied on for anything other than wrapping your fish. :^O

As Pierre said, there is no difference between virtual and bricks an mortar as far the vendors requirements go, so while CRA knows how it works, they need to define the tell tale signs of hidden income and/or tax avoidence.

Until recently, eBay was a pretty fool proof way to launder money...
Message 31 of 50
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CRA and Powersellers

lina-mallows
Community Member
Pierre-
you wrote
"At the end of the day, a taxpayer better not try to file yearly net income of only $20,000 when spending $40,000 a year after year to live on."

I can think of many examples where declared income is far less than living expenses.
Just look to many seniors living on a fixed income, and drawing on their savings to survive.

ampurtle- I disagree somewhat with Pierre when he says- "there is no difference between virtual and bricks an mortar as far the vendors requirements go."

Yes- you have to keep record. But, the nature, and detail of those records vary considerably.

BRICKS & MORTAR locations rarely deal with complexities of ever changing international exchange rates. Or having to deal with the wide and varied application of tax within the different Provinces, and Territories.
When an item is sold in a ONE physical location, (in general) only ONE SET of tax rules apply.

Having had BRICKS and MORTAR outlets in six Provinces, it can be daunting. Something as simple as a CHOCOLATE BAR has ONLY GST in ALBERTA (no Provincial tax) & MANITOBA (exempt as food). PST & GST (not compounded) in ONTARIO.
GST + QST (compounded) in QUEBEC. AND HST in those Provinces where applicable.
SO, while the GST & HST are pretty straightforward, the Provincial component isn't.

As well, if you have an item like a CAN OF POP- it may, or may not be taxable- depending on WHAT it is purchased with. OR how it is purchased.
IN ONTARIO- VENDING MACHINE- PST & GST
ALONE- in a store- PST & GST
As part of a prepared meal under $4- ONLY GST.
As part of a MEAL PLAN in a residence (like a University)- NO PST- NO GST.

So- if you're selling over the internet, many of the above issues are eliminated- and it is simply an OUT OF PROVINCE SALE- exempt form Ontario RETAIL Sales Tax. And the GST/HST rules are uniformly applied.
Message 32 of 50
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CRA and Powersellers

"At the end of the day, a taxpayer better not try to file yearly net income of only $20,000 when spending $40,000 a year after year to live on."

I can think of many examples where declared income is far less than living expenses.
Just look to many seniors living on a fixed income, and drawing on their savings to survive."

That was obviously written in the context of an eBay PowerSeller, as reported by eBay to CRA.

While there may be valid explanation why one's expenses exceed income year after year, do not be surprised if CRA ask how you do it? ;-) .
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Message 33 of 50
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CRA and Powersellers

At the end of the day, a taxpayer better not try to file yearly net income of only $20,000 when spending $40,000

Pierre, I caught that note too 😉 What about foreign assets/income one can use to draw from while in Canada?

Another question: how can CRA track ones spendings?

do not be surprised if CRA ask how you do it

e.g: ... sponsored by a dad who lives in Europe 😉
Message 34 of 50
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CRA and Powersellers

lina-mallows
Community Member
Sorry Pierre- missed the BIG PICTURE- POWER SELLERS.

Context is everything.

And as you say- "there may be a valid explanation"- and most often there is.

It would be fun though to watch some POWER sellers jumping through hoops trying to come up with those "valid explanations".
Message 35 of 50
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CRA and Powersellers

Another question: how can CRA track ones spendings?

Things CRA can easily find out.....

Properties you own(ed)

Vehicles you own(ed)

Things you bought via debit/credit/cheque.

That Van Gogh hanging over your desk....the one the auditor is using.

Unless you work strictly with cash you have no doubt left a pretty good paper trail.

As for foreign assets/income, again unless all transaction were done with cash (or equivalent) there is usually a paper trail.


"What else could I do? I had no trade so I became a peddler" - Lazarus Greenberg 1915
- answering Trolls is voluntary, my policy is not to participate.
Message 36 of 50
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CRA and Powersellers

lina-mallows
Community Member
Many of us will look back at this 'situation' and laugh hysterically.

We are POWER SELLERS because of the volume of small transactions, that collectively often exceed 100 per month. The total value of transaction is more often than not, less than $1000 per month.

So, for us being a Power Seller only gives me access to this information, and little else. Any discount because of HIGH DSR's are insignificant. And, we offset those with a 50% increase to our shipping charges.

We will likely RAISE those charges again, by another 33%, after the NEW postal rates kick in.

Rather than chasing DSR- raising prices (for us) has been the way to go.

NOTE- ANYONE can apparently OPT OUT of being a POWER SELLER- just send an e-mail clearly stating your confirmation and request to being OPTED OUT.
then send it to: cacswebhelp@ebay.com
Message 37 of 50
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CRA and Powersellers

lina-mallows
Community Member
Filing NBA may be the salvation few realized.
THIS information is recorded, and forms part of SALES REPORTS eBay provides.

Who's kidding who- if someone bought a 100 of your items- and didn';\t pay for them- wouldn't you have filed for your eBay fees back?
Making a claim of UNPAID for items, therefore reducing your GROSS sales- without filing for your eBay fees back makes little sense. There will always be times when the hassle for a buck or two doesn't make sense. And, I think CRA is smart enough to realize that.

If ultimately the item WAS NOT paid for- why did you pay all those fees??????


PRINTING this information monthly, when available, makes a great reference.
Unpaid Item reminders sent
Final Value Fee claims requested
Unpaid Items reported as % of sold items

PROBLEM- eBay ONLY provides archived reports for the past 24 MONTHS!!!

Anyone see a problem with this?

Wouldn't it be nice if eBay provided this information for the SAMW\E period as the records they are providing to CRA? Just a thought!
Message 38 of 50
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CRA and Powersellers

lina-mallows
Community Member
Wouldn't it be nice if eBay provided this information for the SAME period as the records they are providing to CRA? Just a thought!

Why not make the 2004/2005 records as readily available- at least to Power Sellers.

eBay claims to be providing so many resources fighting to prevent the release of information to outside sources.

Maybe eBay should spend a bit more expanding the information to those to whom it pertains.
Message 39 of 50
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CRA and Powersellers

"The total value of transaction is more often than not, less than $1000 per month."

????

That assumption does NOT make sense. While there may be a few sellers who qualify for PS with less than $1,000 monthly sales, they would unquestionably be the exception. .
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Message 40 of 50
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