eBay

kerstingunnel · ‎06-22-2013

Since 2009 I have been and am a VERY happy eBay buyer. The recent surge of US based eBay sellers partnering with GSP, however, has me scratch my head. From what I can tell, it postures to solve a completely non-existing problem while creating a very tangible and substantial one.

In the years I have been buying on eBay, a shipment to me from the US has NEVER ONCE been halted at the Canadian Border Agency to accrue charges of broker's fees, sales taxes and import charges. I have NOT PAID A CENT EVER in such charges for shipments originating from US based eBay sellers. Shipments can be halted, but in my own experience, they rarely, if ever, are.

For each and every purchase from a seller who is partnering with GSP, however, such charges are paid (probably in addition to monies paid to eBay and GSP for their hand in the arrangement) and paid substantially. In a typical eBay transaction an item won at $26 cost $11.50 to ship and $9.51 (!!!) in GSP import charges.

Postal rates have gone up steeply for international shipping recently, adding to the sudden increase in the cost of shipping to Canada..

EBay may not be able to influence US postal costs, but the GSP partnership with eBay vendors is definitely an area of eBay's direct control and prerogative.

I will not buy from an eBay business who partners with GSP.

This year we Canadians number 35 million people and I'm sure that there are many of them who LOVE eBay as much as I do. Since this is a substantial market, I think it would be exceedingly foolish and myopic of eBay to jeopardize it altogether by taking GSP on board. Several eBay sellers I have contacted say that if the partnership becomes mandatory, they will cease to offer their listings to Canadians. Some have tried to work with GSP and find immediately that it doesn't serve them or their Canadian customers well - they have subsequently backed out of the partnership. Many have figured out beforehand and on their own that it wouldn't be in their interest or that of their Canadian customers and they have not opted for bringing GSP on board. All sellers say that they are encouraged by eBay to partner with GSP.

Every seller I have discussed this issue with was under the impression that this a valuable service devised to streamline the buying process and solve existing problems for their Canadian customers. This is, then, patently untrue. If this is how eBay, against their better knowing, "sells" the GSP program to their vendors, eBay actively misleads them. If eBay is unaware of the real state of affairs in regards to import charges, it ought to look into the factual situation more diligently before making such a serious move. It appears to be a predatory and parasitic practise.

It seems, thus, that the arrangement benefits GSP, eBay and the coffers of Canada. It doesn't benefit eBay vendors or their Canadian customers. In the end, since we all coexist and are interdependent, if it chokes or severely affects the Canadian market, only GSP and the government of Canada come out the winners, not eBay, not eBay sellers, not Canadian eBay buyers.

Other US based on-line businesses are partnered with similar programs for shipping to Canadian customers, which is one of the reasons I always prefer to buy on eBay.

Why fix what works perfectly well without fixing?

pierrelebel · ‎08-17-2013

"...According the posts here they're not buying on eBay any longer."

While I do not like the GSP, I would not go as far as using the word "hate". I see it as a service I do not need in most instances. When I do not need a service, I do not use it.

Maybe the posts here do not reflect the overall eBay experience. We all know that most satisfied customers (importers using GSP) do not post here. They have no story to tell.

While there is no question that thousands Canadian and foreign buyers will no longer purchase from American sellers offering GSP - mostly because they have to pay consumption taxes (GST/HST/VAT/whatever they call them around the world) which are often ignored when shipping directly by mail - the reality is that while the system has been in place for almost a year now, overall sales on eBay.com by Americans have increased.

As long as sales go up, eBay will look at it as a successful program, whether we like it or not.

Of course it would have been preferable if the service had been limited to more expensive items - where the probability of being charged tax at time of Customs clearance is higher - instead of being offered on low priced items. However, I do not think eBay sees its role as one to help buyers around the world avoid domestic taxes.

i*m-still-here · ‎08-17-2013

The point is not whether you or I like or hate the GSP or the way the posters here analyze it.

There are handful of sellers here doing their best to explain and justify it, and I get that it works for some U.S. sellers but that isn't the point.

The point it that the endless posts from Canadian buyers clearly show that we HATE the GSP.............. perhaps not unanimous but very very close to it.

Again: For every Canadian buyer who is angry enough to take the time and make the effort to come here and post, there are thousands who don't.

To come here an post a buyer has to be really really P_____ed off. Big Time.

Over and over buyers say that they are done with eBay because of it.

Instad of analyzing it: ................ Believe it!

Suggesting the sales have gone up due to the GSP is so wonky I don't know where to start.

One only needs a very rudimentary understanding of statistics to know that there is no cause and effect relationship there.

Not even remotely.

I HATE the GSP, and according to the posts above that sentiment is widespread among Canadians.

bb_cool_stuff · ‎08-17-2013

Hate is too strong a word unless you are talking about beets, liver & turnips.

Of couse that is just my opinion.

i*m-still-here · ‎08-17-2013

I like beets, love liver, and turnips are not a problem.

The GSP? That I loathe. Hate is putting it mildly.

I can't help myself.............

When I feel that I'm getting taken advantage of like that it just gets to the core of me.

It becomes about something bigger than just the money.

I resent getting treated like that.

It's all about taking our money and giving us nothing of value in return.

In fact, we get less than nothing in return............ the service is much worse, the risks are much higher.......... and we get to pay for that if we buy via the GSP.

If our Canadian government opted to collect on every $20+ item coming into the country as they have every right to do........... on their own without the GSP relay system............... then that's another story.

pierrelebel · ‎08-17-2013

"Instad of analyzing it: ................ Believe it!"

??? Faith has nothing to do with it.

Your choice to "hate", not mine. I prefer to get the facts, analyze them and eventually reach an opinion based something other than feelings and sentiments such as hatred.

Different strokes for different folks.

Maintain your "hate" if you wish and I will keep analyzing!

i*m-still-here · ‎08-17-2013

The point is............... you and a handful of sellers here can analyze it to death .............. and agree and disagree and debate and try to understand it and on and on and on ad nauseum.

That won't change a thing.

WE HATE the GSP!!!! ................. and that is a very logical and reasonable response.

bb_cool_stuff · ‎08-17-2013

Whats up i*m ?

I don't seem to recall you having a go at the GSP this strongly in the past.

Is there an item you are watching which includes the GSP ?

marnotom! · ‎08-17-2013

@i*m-still-here wrote:
The point is............... you and a handful of sellers here can analyze it to death .............. and agree and disagree and debate and try to understand it and on and on and on ad nauseum.

That won't change a thing.

WE HATE the GSP!!!! ................. and that is a very logical and reasonable response.

YOU hate the GSP. Other users have expressed their displeasure with the GSP. Does that make it "unanimous" that Canadian eBay users hate the GSP? Not using board postings as evidence, it doesn't.

I just posted this on the .com site's International Trading discussion board. I think it bears repeating here:

I'm getting a little tired of the GSP being portrayed as Lord Darth Vader.

I get the impression that most of the issues people have with the GSP are due to the fact that they haven't done their homework first, be they buyers or sellers. Buyers are ignorant of the laws regarding taxation of personal imports, sellers jump aboard this program without checking here or on other listings first, and people don't seem to know how to click on a link or two to get further information on the program.

The GSP is flawed, but I wouldn't go as far as to say badly flawed. A lot of the hysteria on this discussion board about the GSP reminds me of the "good ol' days" of PayPal when the boards were full of screaming hoards complaining about how PayPal had done them wrong when in fact they simply didn't understand the user agreement.

PayPal continued to negotiate largely unchartered waters and made a few changes in the process while users got better educated on its use. As a result, much of this hysteria abated.

The same is happening and can happen with the GSP. Users need to educate themselves as to what circumstances the GSP works well and under what circumstances it can be a total disaster and conduct themselves accordingly.

Because eBay isn't going to do it for them.

I'd just add to that for this board that the GSP is a selling tool. Some tools are suitable for certain jobs better than others. In many cases, it seems that sellers are using the GSP as a saw when a hammer would do the job better. Is that the fault of the GSP?

i*m-still-here · ‎08-17-2013

BB........... You hit it on the head!

An item shipped with the GSP............ Fabulous purchase............. BIN with instant payment and GSP.

I've always been able to email with the seller in the past and we worked it out, but the way this was set up it wasn't possible.

The thing is........... when it becomes personal, then you get an understanding of it that has more meaning.

I haven't commented on the posts here for a long time because they're all the same and there really is no solution.

But look at them: It's one after the other from angry buyers leaving eBay.

You and I are the ones who are going to pay for that.

I'd love to have Canadian sales, but when eBay isn't Canadian friendly it's challenging.

If the government started collecting on every item over $20.............. I think I'd support that............ but this is altogether different.

I have NO desire to pay Pitney-Bowes for making my purchases difficult.

What kind of sense does that make?

marnotom! · ‎08-17-2013

@i*m-still-here wrote:

I haven't commented on the posts here for a long time because they're all the same and there really is no solution.

But look at them: It's one after the other from angry buyers leaving eBay.

Sorry, i*m, but I don't buy that, either. When I first rejoined the Canadian eBay boards in the late spring, I read several old posts from disgruntled eBay buyers saying that they'd had it with eBay and they'd never buy from the site again. All of them had recent feedback as buyers.

Another reason that discussion board output alone isn't an accurate barometer of "unanimous" sentiment.

If the government started collecting on every item over $20.............. I think I'd support that............ but this is altogether different.

I have NO desire to pay Pitney-Bowes for making my purchases difficult.
What kind of sense does that make?

I think your definition of "difficult" may differ from most people's. Can you elaborate on this point?

bb_cool_stuff · ‎08-17-2013

I thought so.

I can see it, a desirable, unique item at a great price which will probably sell quickly.

I take it it is a pricey item that will be hard to turn with the GSP included.

Perhaps the seller has been burned lately & is a little paranoid.

Go to them again, let them know you have bought from them in the past & have been happy with your purchase. Worth a shot.

If they won't budge another desirable item will show up, hopefully without the GSP.

I know its no consolation but i have found some great items also lately but they are not willing to opt out of the GSP for the item.

The reason, too any INRs coming from Canada.

Once bitten... & you know the rest.

Probably the category, pricey game worn jerseys.

i*m-still-here · ‎08-17-2013

Yup........... it was snapped up right away as I knew it would be.

"""ALL""of the sellers I've come across using the GSP have very low FB are very inexperienced.

They aren't using it as a tool.

They're using it because eBay sold them something they don't need and when they get even a basic understanding of it they do not want it either.

The seasoned sellers I buy from do not use the GSP.

They know better.

I've been able to work with almost every (if not every one of them) and I truly believe that's because I've been very careful with the FB I leave.

This time I couldn't and I know the seller would have been easy to work with and eager to please but I couldn't get that far.

The sellers are not to blame.

Those I've encountered are very new and don't even know what the GSP is.

Some old story.

bb_cool_stuff · ‎08-17-2013

Remember your suggestion to all of us in January.

Let them know about the GSP & how it can sometimes prove to be a disadvatage to Canadian Buyers.

Keep in mind, If the small minority of dishonest buyers were honest there would probably be no need for the GSP.

Unfortunately, it hurts a lot of honest Buyers.

marnotom! · ‎08-17-2013

@i*m-still-here wrote:

The sellers are not to blame.

Those I've encountered are very new and don't even know what the GSP is.

The Global Shipping Program is mentioned prominently in the eBay.com user agreement.

If they don't know what the GSP is, they haven't read the UA.

eBay or the GSP isn't to blame for that.

bb_cool_stuff · ‎08-17-2013

Bingo !

If people would take the time to read & understand UAs,GSP, FB, DSRs, Descriptions, most frustrations would be eliminated.

i*m-still-here · ‎08-17-2013

marnotom......... Responding to your questions only amplifies and feeds the endless GSP threads, and there is nothing to debate.

For buyers of items which may or may not have taxes owing (no duty) it's bad news.

Shipping via the GSP means giving money to P-B for less than nothing.

Shipping via the GSP for collectibles and antiques means that we pay P-B for making transactions which should have been pleasurable a PITA and difficult.

IMO there is nothing to debate.

marnotom! · ‎08-17-2013

@i*m-still-here wrote:
marnotom......... Responding to your questions only amplifies and feeds the endless GSP threads, and there is nothing to debate.

For buyers of items which may or may not have taxes owing (no duty) it's bad news.
Shipping via the GSP means giving money to P-B for less than nothing.
Shipping via the GSP for collectibles and antiques means that we pay P-B for making transactions which should have been pleasurable a PITA and difficult.

IMO there is nothing to debate.

My experience with these discussion boards is that people who pull the "there's nothing to debate" card are actually sensing that they're standing on pretty shaky ground with their arguments.

Right now I'm looking at item 330975519687, an iPhone 4 selling for US$359.99. It's a GSP listing.

Shipping price: US$21.58. Not bad for a tracked shipment from the U.S.

Import charges for me in B.C.: US$21.61.

What would the GST and PST set me back if I bought this at home for what it's selling for in that listing? US$43.20.

I'm actually getting a better deal on taxes than if I had this shipped through the postal system, and I don't have to pay Canada Post's C$9.95 processing fee, either! I don't even have any idea what I'm paying Pitney Bowes in program fees for this one!

Sorry, but I don't tar all GSP transactions with the same ragged brush. And I still have no idea how it's making transactions less "pleasurable" and more "difficult" for you. All I can surmise is that for you, paying sales taxes is something akin to having haemmerhoids.

bb_cool_stuff · ‎08-17-2013

I guess it all depends on the category marn.

The deals that were always there previously are just few & far between in my category.

I have noticed this since the USPS Rates increased & it really had nothing to do with the GSP.

marnotom! · ‎08-18-2013

Might also depend on the destination and where the item enters Canada.

I think Recped once mentioned that it's likely that taxes are charged based on the point of entry, rather than the article's destination, so some of the items I'm looking at may be ending up in Alberta before getting sent along to B.C., meaning they'd only be subject to GST.

Item 321133653268, $100 old-school boom box. US$32.00 shipping, US$14.78 in import charges. If you lop off the 12% GST and PST for BC, that leaves US$2.78 for Pitney Bowes, which doesn't seem quite right. Import charges are the same for Alberta, too, so PB must just be charging me GST.

Anyway, I'm just underscoring my point that one shouldn't tar all GSP transactions with the same brush. It's going to take some experimenting and tweaking to work out the best sort of sales for this program, I think.