eBay

happy_pigeon · ‎01-31-2018

Hi all,

Hopefully, you've seen Wednesday's announcement about eBay's plans to intermediate payments in the near future.

In plain language, this means that instead of PayPal processing all payments as they currently do (even if you don't choose PayPal as your payment option), we'll be transitioning over the next few years to a centralized system. You don't need to do anything right now, and PayPal will continue to be an option for sending and accepting payments.

I'll move any related posts/threads here so that we can condense the discussion. I'll probably be signing off for the night shortly, but I'll be back tomorrow morning to answer any questions you may have!

rose-dee · ‎02-01-2018

wrote:
wrote:
Paypal payments, are immediately available to us, will this be exactly the same with Adyen.??

I will point out that not all PayPal payments are immediately released, however; only if you've sold past a certain level. Until then, your funds are either held for a certain amount of time, and/or they only release enough to pay for shipping. So all payment processors are going to have checks and balances.

While that may be true of new sellers, or sellers who have been restricted for particular reasons, I think it would be inaccurate and misleading to say this will apply to anywhere near the majority of sellers, particularly those with any reasonable experience. In all the years I've sold on eBay, I've never yet had funds held.

The other issue (and complication) for many of us will be in dealing with shipping payments. At the moment, shipping costs come straight out of Paypal deposits, making payment and accounting simpler. If platforms like Shippo continue to process shipping charges directly through Paypal, that means sellers will need to maintain a significant amount of cash in Paypal to cover shipping, because money coming through eBay's own system will no doubt go straight into seller's own bank accounts.

Or does eBay plan to do what Etsy has done and "intervene" in the shipping stream by processing the shipping cost themselves, then billing sellers after the fact? I've always found that system unwieldy and inconvenient.

happy_pigeon · ‎02-01-2018

In case anyone is interested, here are a few of Adyen's other clients (in addition to Etsy )

Uber

Netflix

Spotify

Groupon

SurveyMonkey

It's not an exhaustive list by any means, just a few of the biggies.

femmefan1946 · ‎02-01-2018

With permission of the Boardie, here is a post from the dotCOM discussion Board.

in reply to 02-01-2018 09:54:54 AM

@faithfullytreasured wrote:
@*madison wrote:
Thanks, Castle.

I just wanted it explained briefly in plain English, instead of a long fat message that blew my mind.
That's exactly why I'm here. I wish they would write in layman terms. Plus I like getting other sellers point of view on changes.

All this speculation is just that ... we don't know ANYTHING yet about how it will work.

I'm already seeing people taking it as "fact" that this will result in funds holds and fee increases. *sigh*

What we DO know:

eBay and PayPal had a "mutual benefit" clause in the split agreement that will expire in 2020. In this agreement eBay had to keep PayPal payments flowing at 80% and eBay had to agree that they would not create their own payment portal.
Ayden is a multi-national Payments portal with over 5000 corporate customers worldwide. If you have a Netflix account, you have used the Ayden portal to pay Netflix. If you have ever used Uber, you have used the Ayden portal. They are not some fly-by-night start-up.
eBay will be using Ayden as it's primary payments portal beginning later this year. Right now, eBay uses PayPal's Payflow service to process credit/debit card payments directly at checkout. (opinion: this piece is most likely where we will see the first changes)
PayPal will still be an option for sellers.

Here is what I get out of this ... right now, all of the international sites (.com, .co.uk, .in, .hk, etc) are disjointed at checkout because of payment options that may be available on one and not the other. PayPal is not universal across sites (and actually operates as different entities in different countries where it is available). Unifying checkout across sites will make the buyer experience a bit smoother, IMO.

And more opinion ... buyers that shop elsewhere checkout with their credit card. That is the norm for online shopping. The whole third party site payment thing that is PayPal is foreign to non-eBay buyers ... and eBay is trying to attract new buyers (which is a good thing for eBay sellers).

As an Etsy seller, this is not a "new" concept for me. My sales go into my business checking account once a week (yes, I could transfer everyday but I don't) ... no need for me to maintain 2 separate accounts and transfer funds back and forth.

Another thing is no "3 shots at the prize" disputes ... eBay, PayPal and then Credit Card ...only 2 .. eBay and then Credit Card.

Enough out of me LOL ... I would just like us all to not jump on the chicken little bandwagon and start spouting conjecture as "truth" when discussing this. Let's ask the right questions and not just make "noise" and get hysterical and start mixing discussions about other things into this.

I would like us, here in the Selling Community, to put together a list of questions we need the answers to ... and to keep asking those SPECIFIC questions until we get SPECIFIC answers.

Patience is the ability to let your light shine after your fuse has blown out.

PostingID

momcqueen · ‎02-01-2018

All good points but I take issue with this passage: "And more opinion ... buyers that shop elsewhere checkout with their credit card. That is the norm for online shopping. The whole third party site payment thing that is PayPal is foreign to non-eBay buyers ... and eBay is trying to attract new buyers (which is a good thing for eBay sellers)."

That is simply not the case. I use paypal before I use a credit card and, furthermore, I deliberately choose online sites that offer paypal and actively avoid those that don't. That is as a buyer; as a seller, I don't require my buyers to hold paypal accounts. It's the processor for their credit cards, period. But one that I trust.

When money is paid into my paypal account by a buyer for an item that sells, those funds are as immediately available to me to use as it is in my own chequing account. I won't settle for anything less.

lady.stark · ‎02-01-2018

wrote:
... because money coming through eBay's own system will no doubt go straight into seller's own bank accounts.

I hope not! I don't have a US $ bank account for my US $ sales.

3islanders · ‎02-01-2018

wrote:
What I most dislike is the idea of giving my banking information to yet another foreign (U.S.) payment "intermediation" system.

Yes, this... having to sign up with my banking info to some third party system many of us have never heard of.... "Paypal will still be an option"? But we'll still have to sign up for the other one, I'm sure.

You know when any company starts in about enhancing your user experience and delivering better service, it means they're either going to hike your fees or introduce some more bureaucratic nonsense.

Someone mentioned that small-scale sellers will have to wait till they accumulate $120 worth of sales to get paid. I can't find that anywhere in the notification blather, but I wouldn't be surprised.

Why the heck do they have to keep messing with stuff that already works!?

(By the way, "intermediation" IS a word and according to Merriam-Webster, has been around since the 1600s. Doesn't mean using it doesn't make you sound like a tool.)

rose-dee · ‎02-02-2018

wrote:
... because money coming through eBay's own system will no doubt go straight into seller's own bank accounts.
I hope not! I don't have a US $ bank account for my US $ sales.

I imagine it will have to work the way Etsy's payment system does, i.e. funds will be converted into the receiver's currency. Whether eBay/Ayden will claw back fees for that conversion service is another matter.

This of course is one of the really huge advantages of Paypal -- even if you're not in the U.S., you can maintain a $US Paypal balance at no charge whatsoever and spend those US dollars in the U.S. without any re-conversion of currency. I've frequently purchased from non-eBay suppliers who offer Paypal for that very reason.

Consider the way it would work with an eBay payment system: you sell an item for $80 US, then eBay's payment processor (Ayden) converts it to $Cdn (with or without charge, who knows?), and initiates the transfer of funds to your Canadian bank account. Since we're dealing with a U.S.-based payment processor, I can't foresee that transfer could be done in under 2 days. Now you have ca. $100 in your own Canadian bank account. Need to buy something from a U.S. supplier? You will either have to transfer that money to your own credit card (which may involve a time lag) and pay currency exchange fees once you buy, or else transfer your $Cdn back into Paypal and pay currency exchange fees either when you transfer or when you make the purchase (depending on whether you maintain a $US or $Cdn Paypal account).

I'm not speculating, this is exactly what I deal with in Etsy's payment system, which is the reason I also maintain Paypal payments, as that does at least ensure I have some cash flowing into Paypal directly. One can get used to it, but I guarantee that once eBay is doing the same sort of thing you'll never like it better than what we've had with Paypal.

rose-dee · ‎02-02-2018

wrote:
With permission of the Boardie, here is a post from the dotCOM discussion Board.

"Here is what I get out of this ... right now, all of the international sites (.com, .co.uk, .in, .hk, etc) are disjointed at checkout because of payment options that may be available on one and not the other. PayPal is not universal across sites (and actually operates as different entities in different countries where it is available). Unifying checkout across sites will make the buyer experience a bit smoother, IMO.

And more opinion ... buyers that shop elsewhere checkout with their credit card. That is the norm for online shopping. The whole third party site payment thing that is PayPal is foreign to non-eBay buyers ... and eBay is trying to attract new buyers (which is a good thing for eBay sellers).

As an Etsy seller, this is not a "new" concept for me. My sales go into my business checking account once a week (yes, I could transfer everyday but I don't) ... no need for me to maintain 2 separate accounts and transfer funds back and forth."

I take issue, to one extent or another, with these comments by the U.S. poster.

First, I'm not convinced that eBay's international cart/checkout problems have been mainly due to currency issues. I think eBay messed up that system for other reasons. (Incidentally, I note with the usual Canadian polite irony that .ca was not included in the poster's list of international sites. Oh well.)

Second, I don't buy the argument that Paypal is "foreign" to most buyers. Paypal has been around a long time, has been accepted on other major platforms besides eBay for years, and is offered by a lot of independent online sellers.

Finally, this U.S seller obviously can get transfers done "every day" from Etsy if they wish -- bully for them. As a non-U.S. seller, I can't. I expect that will be the same story for us eBay sellers once a new system is in place. I'm not sure what the poster meant by "no need to maintain 2 separate accounts" and transferring money back and forth.

penguins_dont_fly · ‎02-03-2018

wrote:
wrote:
With permission of the Boardie, here is a post from the dotCOM discussion Board.

"Here is what I get out of this ... right now, all of the international sites (.com, .co.uk, .in, .hk, etc) are disjointed at checkout because of payment options that may be available on one and not the other. PayPal is not universal across sites (and actually operates as different entities in different countries where it is available). Unifying checkout across sites will make the buyer experience a bit smoother, IMO.

And more opinion ... buyers that shop elsewhere checkout with their credit card. That is the norm for online shopping. The whole third party site payment thing that is PayPal is foreign to non-eBay buyers ... and eBay is trying to attract new buyers (which is a good thing for eBay sellers).

As an Etsy seller, this is not a "new" concept for me. My sales go into my business checking account once a week (yes, I could transfer everyday but I don't) ... no need for me to maintain 2 separate accounts and transfer funds back and forth."

I take issue, to one extent or another, with these comments by the U.S. poster.

First, I'm not convinced that eBay's international cart/checkout problems have been mainly due to currency issues. I think eBay messed up that system for other reasons. (Incidentally, I note with the usual Canadian polite irony that .ca was not included in the poster's list of international sites. Oh well.)

Second, I don't buy the argument that Paypal is "foreign" to most buyers. Paypal has been around a long time, has been accepted on other major platforms besides eBay for years, and is offered by a lot of independent online sellers.

Finally, this U.S seller obviously can get transfers done "every day" from Etsy if they wish -- bully for them. As a non-U.S. seller, I can't. I expect that will be the same story for us eBay sellers once a new system is in place. I'm not sure what the poster meant by "no need to maintain 2 separate accounts" and transferring money back and forth.

Good Morning All ... I am the US seller that originally posted this 🙂 @femmefan1946 has asked if they could repost over here and I agreed.

I decided to take a trip over the border to see what you guys had to say about it ... and I would like to clarify some of the points that you have brought up regarding my take on the situation.

I can't speak to the unique cross-border currency issues that come with maintaining .ca and .com listings and PayPal accounts in both CAD and USD, and I'm not even going to try (my hat is off to those that do it, though) 🙂

When I talked about disjointed checkout, I was talking about the actual checkout process, not currency.

Adyen is not just a CC processor. Their service supports all types of payment methods . The list includes the major CCs along with PayPal, ApplePay and Google Pay and many more (including small local national methods that are usually only used in-country): https://www.adyen.com/payment-methods

This means that the checkout process can be unified across sites because Adyen is doing the mediation (there's the word!) between buyer, site and provider and acting as a funnel.

_____

"Foreign to non-eBay buyers"

My point here was ... For those buyers who have never used PayPal, having to sign up for a separate account just to pay for things is a foreign concept. They have a card, they use it to shop in-store and online.

Giving the buyer the choice to use their preferred method to pay will hopefully broaden eBay's market.

_____

I didn't know that non-U.S. Etsy sellers could not do daily withdrawals 😞

_____

"Maintaining separate Accounts"

I have a Business PayPal Account

I have a Business Checking Account.

I transfer my net sales from PayPal to Checking monthly. Operating Expenses and Inventory Expense are paid from Checking.

For Etsy Sales, I do not have to do this transfer. The monies go directly into Checking. One account, income and expense.

momcqueen · ‎02-03-2018

Thank you for joining us. It is always nice to see other folks here, particularly one as thoughtful and well-spoken such as yourself. And thank you for sharing your insight. I'm not in agreement with each point that you make but your contribution to the discussion certainly has been valuable.

Just to clarify: "For those buyers who have never used PayPal, having to sign up for a separate account just to pay for things is a foreign concept. They have a card, they use it to shop in-store and online." Paypal is the existing card processor here on ebay, and users don't need to have an account with paypal to pay via credit card if credit card is the payment method chosen. As a seller, I don't require users have paypal accounts, and I am pleased to see Guest Checkout orders among my repeat shoppers. I shouldn't think a new 'intermediary' payment processor is adding any value to the ebay checkout experience. If anything, people who use paypal trust paypal. And in most cases, they trust paypal to have their back if something with the ebay side of the transaction goes pear-shaped.

And while I cannot speak for the Etsy withdrawals experience, I can attest that from the Canadian side of ebay that many of the shiny features of the site available to Americans are simply not ever accessible to users of the Canadian site, and I'm talking about everything from little things to big things: Sellers Hub, Promotions Manager, even the ability to open an Unpaid Item case after 48 hours instead of four days. You may be surprised at the nature of many of the inequities. So while I am assured by your statement that access to funds with the new processor are quick and easy for American account holders on Easy, I would not assume this would ever be the case for Canadians.

momcqueen · ‎02-03-2018

I do, however, think it an improvement that seller fees (Final Value Fees etc) will be withdrawn from the proceeds of the sale as it happens (like with paypal) rather than being as a seller slapped with a big bill mid-month. If that, in fact, comes to pass in that respect and has not been misinterpreted as a process along the way.

penguins_dont_fly · ‎02-03-2018

I haven't heard anything about FVF being deducted?

For those that Trust PayPal as a payment method ... PayPal is integrated into Adyen ... for buyers, I don't see that there will any difference at all. You will still be able to pay with PayPal and have PayPal buyer Protection.

I don't use the PayPal block either as a seller. How a buyer pays is not as important to me as the fact that they DO pay 🙂

For me, the bottom line is: As long as I get paid, I don't care if a buyer pays with Martian Zxcvvfdepoffs (ZXP) or with their Inca Sun God Card. If the money is in my account, it's good 🙂

How currency conversion will be handled, how disbursements will be handled and how payment disputes will be handled are still unknown.

I am taking a "wait and see" stance and I will roll with the flow, as is my wont.

I must say, this board is much more civilized that the dotcom board. It has been a pleasure visiting with you all 🙂 *sigh* I must return to my side of the border now and read all of the stuck caps lock, incoherent, spelling and grammar deficient posts over there 😉

rose-dee · ‎02-03-2018

wrote:

I must say, this board is much more civilized that the dotcom board. It has been a pleasure visiting with you all 🙂 *sigh* I must return to my side of the border now and read all of the stuck caps lock, incoherent, spelling and grammar deficient posts over there 😉

Thank you for dropping in here, I think you'll almost always find we try to be polite and civil. People say "niceness" is our national trait, which probably doesn't sound as exciting as other national traits, but we'll take it. Which is not to say opinions aren't clearly and emphatically stated here. 🙂

You're right that we Canadians have an added layer of complexity to deal with. Many of us (I would even venture to say the majority) depend on U.S. sales, which often means dealing with pricing and listing in a foreign currency (or in two currencies, our own plus $USD, as I do on the two separate sites), paying conversion fees and handling accounting complications, not to mention the hair-pulling experience of cross-border refunds.

These are things most of us here in Canada have come to accept and manage, and in that sense Paypal has been vital in smoothing and facilitating the whole payment process, including seamless credit card payments. I'm certain that most of my U.S. buyers don't even realize they're dealing with a foreign seller, which is exactly what I'd hope. In my view, we actually don't need anything more than what we currently have. I have difficulty understanding how this really improves eBay's position in the marketplace. (My sense is that that explanation by eBay is a smoke screen for the underlying reality that eBay and Paypal are separated and will ultimately be completely divorced).

The biggest problem for me in dealing with an additional payment processor that does not also offer account facilities as Paypal does, will be in not having more or less immediate access to sales proceeds, and being forced to accept conversion of funds into my Canadian chequing account. Most of the time I don't want my sales proceeds to go there at all, since I buy many of my materials and supplies from U.S. sources (using my Paypal $USD account).

Paying shipping costs may be a real issue as well. Thinking of the uproar over the delay in processing payment that occurred with Shippo gives me some indication of how Canadians will react with an Ayden payment system. They will either have to maintain a separate $Cdn balance in Paypal to pay for their shipping costs, or use a credit card. Or, as I said earlier, will eBay/Ayden do what Etsy does by "intervening" and paying shipping, then presenting us with a huge bill for all our shipping once per month?

It's a good thing this is going to take some time to be fully implemented, because we're all going to have some major adjusting to do.

kays_place · ‎03-01-2018

"more predictable access to their funds - already exists"

I agree. If I withdraw money before noon fro PayPal it is in my account the same day - always predicable.

sparklegirl2007 · ‎03-06-2018

Ayden is terrible. I'm so glad I didn't opt in on Etsy as they were glitching so badly that some customer payments took a couple of weeks to a month to go through and some payments just disappeared for some sellers. They are an awful company. They also want access to your bank account.

mrdutch1001 · ‎03-06-2018

Have had no experience with Adyen payment system but when Etsy made it mandatory to have their Etsy Payments system or give up the right to sell on Etsy...well after 8 years of selling on Etsy, I chose to walk away from that site. I do miss selling my handknit items on Etsy, but c'est la vie! When eBay makes it mandatory to have Adyen payments or give up the right to sell on eBay, I will also walk away from eBay. Hopefully by that time I will be ready to fully utilize the selling groups on Facebook that do work well and there are good options for payment there....

momcqueen · ‎03-07-2018

According to the pundits, seller outreach on this topic today went over like a lead balloon.

https://www.ecommercebytes.com/C/blog/blog.pl?/pl/2018/3/1520477115.html

mandicrafts · ‎03-08-2018

I viewed the webinar presentation today that ebay put on. It was rather vague on specifics and I have more questions now that I've seen it. My questions didn't seem to go through while live. I have also sent these to the email address mentioned for payment processing: paymentsinfo@ebay .com

1) Can we hold dual currencies? (Since I sell on .ca and .com)
2) Will there be Cdn GST/HST taxes on the fees ebay will charge for processing? (since we are charged tax on all other fees - I am already paying an extra $100+ a month due to this - Services are taxable in Canada)
3) Will pay pal payments in the future simply go thru this ebay platform instead of the sellers pay pal acct? (Since they say you won't even need to have a pay pal acct as a seller)
4) Will a seller be able to use $$ sitting in their ebay acct to BUY stuff, or can it be SENT to someone other than your own bank acct. (They only said your bank acct on the webinar).
5) Will the change over happen in Canada at the same time, or a different time frame?
6) Will .ca registrants still be able to list on .com (dual currencies)
7) Will these ebay reports be downloadable as csv (excel) and if so, will any GST/HST taxes assessed on fees/services be pulled out separately. (Currently, on their invoices to us, it is rolled into each line item with a total of the taxes levied at the bottom and already converted to CAD, so its impossible to audit their invoices.)
😎 Will chargebacks be handled solely by ebay rather than the seller since its eBay who is accepting all the different forms of payment, rather than the seller?

hlmacdon · ‎03-08-2018

@momcqueenwrote:
According to the pundits, seller outreach on this topic today went over like a lead balloon.

https://www.ecommercebytes.com/C/blog/blog.pl?/pl/2018/3/1520477115.html

That about sums it up. Completely non-committal about when you could expect to get your funds other than it could be quicker...for a fee.

Ebay has shown through past integrations with third parties that they have a distinct lack of competency on the technical front, something the bugs over the past two days arising from something considerably less technically challenging to implement have shown. No wonder people have zero confidence with ebay getting involved in money handling.