Dispute Revenge Feedback

[007steveb16]

Anyone have any experiance getting a negative removed in a case of a buyer very obviously leaving negative feedback in response to a UID being opened against them?

[pierrelebel]

So far you have managed to get 17 feedback revised.  I am impressed!

If a buyer has not paid and leaves negative feedback, it will be removed upon request.  However I do not see any such recent negative feedback on your record.

[007steveb16]

It isn't about any negative I already have.

My spidey senses are tingling on a buyer that just paid after 5 days of ZERO contact.

They're taking "offense" to the dispute being opened and I can see from other feedback left that there is potential for fireworks.

[recped]

If they pay they can leave feeback.

Unless they specifically mnention the UID in the feedback you would probably be stuck with it.

[i*m-still-here]

If you opened a case of any kind within 5 days of a purchase, the buyer might very well be annoyed.  Don't ya think?

I don't mean this to be mean or sarcastic or judgmental or anything like that................ I'm sure you do OK as a seller............. (Assuming your previous post that you make a few dollars/hour was incorrect and a de-exaggeration? (no such word, I know.))

but....................... Why start caring now?

[007steveb16]

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@i*m-still-here wrote:

If you opened a case of any kind within 5 days of a purchase, the buyer might very well be annoyed.  Don't ya think?

I don't mean this to be mean or sarcastic or judgmental or anything like that................ I'm sure you do OK as a seller............. (Assuming your previous post that you make a few dollars/hour was incorrect and a de-exaggeration? (no such word, I know.))

but....................... Why start caring now?

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You can't be serious with your first line?

How dare I open a case on day 5, (one day after I could), with a buyer who didn't contact me once to expain why there was going to be a delay in payment. I don't care if someone takes a week to pay, all I ask is that they COMMUNICATE with me.

Oh I see, so if I'm making money I should let any buyer do whatever they want? Right, because eBay didn't integrate the 4 day dispute process for any reason, they just thought it would be fun.

You're something else I tell ya.....

Gahhh!, why do I even respond to you?????

[i*m-still-here]

No Steve........  What I was saying is that every seller has his or her own way of doing things.  I'm not criticizing you.

However, if you really care about FB as much as some of us do (and IMO it's seriously over-rated), then you don't open cases on day 5 or 6.

I'm not saying you should or shouldn't do that................ but since you opt to do things that way........... then why start caring about FB at this stage?

It's too late to worry about it now.

Let it go.  That ship has sailed.

In other words........... if it's working for you money wise............. then why stop?

However, if FB is your primary concern don't open cases on day 5.

[007steveb16]

Whoa! Seems I was a bit off with my dates:

Commited to purchase: Oct 18th

Paid: Oct 26th

8 days to pay!

No communication durning that entire period in any way, shape or form. Invoices, eBay messages etc...

I not more uppity about the feedback it's this new breed of buyer who thinks their king and can do whatever they want.

[pierrelebel]

"it's this new breed of buyer who thinks their king and can do whatever they want."

New?

I have been servicing this type of buyers for over twenty years.  Thay may take a few hours, a few days or a few weeks to pay.  Who cares?  I am in no urgent need for the money.  Yes, it would be nice if everyone of them always communicated quickly that payment will be made within a specific period of time. And yes, I understand how difficult it is at times to handle thousands of listings on eBay with over 1,000 sales every month.  Been there. Done that.

But, at the end of the day, I am here to serve my customers, not the other way around.

[rose-dee]

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@i*m-still-here wrote:

However, if you really care about FB as much as some of us do (and IMO it's seriously over-rated), then you don't open cases on day 5 or 6.

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If you've contacted a buyer and get no response whatsoever after several days, will it make any difference whether a seller waits 5 days or 7, or longer?  I doubt it.  If the buyer is put off with an UIC after day 5, and hasn't communicated with the seller, I'd say the chance of the buyer being peeved with an UIC even after a week or 10 days is probably the same.  

If the seller stipulates in his/her listings that payment is expected within a certain number of days unless other arrangements are made, it's not unreasonably for the seller to open a case after that time period but it is unreasonable for the buyer to lash back at the seller because he (the buyer) was made to pay.   

When eBay brought in the UIC policy, it neglected to work on the other end of the transaction: the FB issues.  So we now have a lopsided relationship between buyer and seller.  I fail to see why a non-communicative buyer who should have been aware of the seller's payment terms (i.e. should have read the listing) and has to be obliged by eBay to pay for his purchase, should be permitted to turn on the seller in FB.  Some people don't like to be told what they should do, under any circumstances.  The seller shouldn't be able to be punished simply because the buyer is insulted for being told by eBay that he/she must pay.  

I generally give my buyers 5 days (depending on the value of the item), then send a very friendly reminder.  I then wait another day, and if there hasn't been any communication, I file a UIC.  It happens rarely, but it happens.  On the other hand, if a buyer contacts me within a couple of days of a sale and asks for a week to pay, I'm happy to oblige.

The other problem with slow, silent buyers is that the seller may be waiting a week or more for a sign of life from a purchaser, while meanwhile the item sits in limbo (an item which may have been able to be sold to another buyer).  If it's a valuable or particularly sought-after item, that can be a painful wait.   

Personally, I expect to see this entire system vanish within the next year or two (perhaps earlier), and be replaced by an obligatory immediate payment concept of some kind, with a voluntary "product review/rating" type of feedback system.  There are so many broken pieces of the FB system in any event that it isn't worth fixing, especially now that much of the information is being kept hidden.  

In the meantime, I sympathize with the OP. 

[i*m-still-here]

As a buyer I get annoyed when a seller opens a case on me and these days cases are opened for nothing at all.

Isn't part of the problem that eBay charges FVFs even when the seller hasn't been paid?

If they dropped that would you care a little less?

Just a thought................ : Think of al the money they make by doing that.

Is it really right that sellers are forced to open cases to recover FVFs?

There must be a better way.

Maybe that's at the heart of the problem for some sellers.

[rose-dee]

Believe it or not, it really isn't the FVFs I'm concerned about when a "sold" item is sitting unpaid and unaccounted for by a buyer for a number of days.  I know that either I have a very slow buyer, who will eventually pay and the FVFs will be appropriately collected by eBay, or I have a true non-payer, which eventually means a closed UIC and refunded FVFs.  In any event, the FVFs will generally get sorted out before I'm actually billed for them in the next invoicing cycle. 

What bothers me far more is that the item is completely off the eBay radar, gone from my store and in limbo, for initially the 6 days' grace I give to every buyer (even those who don't communicate), then potentially another few days after I've filed an UIC, depending on how long I decide to wait before doing so.  If I wait 10 days before launching the UIC, then the item is unlisted for a good two weeks, and possibly longer if it truly isn't being paid for and I must wait for the UIC case to be closed.  Having a featured item not on display at a crucial time is of real concern to me.  

This can mean a significant lost sales potential, and, what is often for me just as important, seriously reduced traffic to my store.  This is especially a concern at busy times (pre-Xmas, etc.)

I doubt that slow payers are aware of this issue for sellers (at least this is true for what I sell, although it may not be an issue for others).  On the other hand, I always sincerely thank those buyers who pay promptly -- I can't tell you how much I appreciate it!  I must say nonetheless that I've only had a couple of true non-payers in all my years, so I'm usually fairly patient, even with absolute dead silence. 

As a buyer, I've never delayed payment for more than a few hours without contacting the seller.  But as a seller, I'm absolutely happy to give a buyer who contacts me more time to pay, and honestly, I think you'd find that's true of the majority of sellers.  Buyers can easily avoid UIC cases by simply messaging the seller - most of us appreciate that life happens and are willing to wait for payment, but silence tells a seller nothing.  I've really never understood why buyers wouldn't just send off a quick note if they expect a delay of more than a day.  

I should add that this whole matter will change if eBay does permanently implement the "pay or stay listed" policy.  I'm not sure I agree with that one either!

[brandeentertainment]

I agree with steve here 5 days is fine .. I wait 7-10 days but the rules that we sellers are forced to leave by are there for the buyers too.. 4 Days to pay which in many cases I think is stupid anyways buyers should always have too pay rght away I mean where else in the world of ecommerce or brick and mortar do you get to choose to pay a week later...

To have an item sold to weight 7 days and not have a buyer pay is money out of a sellers pocket.. Time and possible sale to a legit buyer..

Some people have come to think things like 5 days is not bad ... It's 5 days longer then anywhere else I have ever known of ...

[dipmicro]

Once you get it, it will stay.

Neg is not only on your record but the buyers as well and leaving negs for silly reasons like opening automated UID will hurt the buyer more than seller. Next time Miserable McGrumpy is at job interview, HR staffer will look at data-mined file and tells him "it seems you don't get along with people very much". Because your ID is xmen55 does not mean a data miner cannot reference it. Mr Buyer, if you feel you have to leave that negative feedback, I am not going to stop you 🙂

[i*m-still-here]

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@dipmicro wrote:

Once you get it, it will stay.

Neg is not only on your record but the buyers as well and leaving negs for silly reasons like opening automated UID will hurt the buyer more than seller. Next time Miserable McGrumpy is at job interview, HR staffer will look at data-mined file and tells him "it seems you don't get along with people very much". Because your ID is xmen55 does not mean a data miner cannot reference it. Mr Buyer, if you feel you have to leave that negative feedback, I am not going to stop you 🙂

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Say What?

It sounds like you're saying that employers inspect the eBay FB profiles of job candidates?

[007steveb16]

It must be nice to be a "hobby" seller and be so lenient with customers to "serve" them as they wish.

For us "income" sellers, IMHO, anything more than 72hrs to pay is too long. That being said, I still put up with it and wait until day 5 before opening the UID. I communicate with EVERY buyer, always giving them that 3 day grace period before I send a friendly reminder. 

Isn't it funny how there's this company who shares the opinion that more than 3 days is too long and they've integrated in a dispute system to support that......

[i*m-still-here]

Steve,  I understand what you're saying.

However, you're not hearing me.  

Some buyers (and I am one of them) get annoyed when cases are opened against them.

It's threatening, nasty and intimidating and often for no valid reason.

Some buyers will leave NFB when you do that.  (BTW, I am not one of them.)

So, when you open a case on day 5 or 6 or 10 .................. some buyers will be pushed to leave NFB.

EBay allows that, and until they don't............... you have to live with it.

I'm just stating the obvious:  If you open cases too early, and the buyer pays, then it's too late to worry about FB.

As I said:  That ship has sailed.

I do open cases for nonpayers................... but I wait as long as possible and as a result I have very very few nonpayers.

I am not saying you should do that.

Just saying how it works for me.

[bb_cool_stuff]

I agree with Steve.

Friendly reminder after two or three days & file on day four or five.

My determining factor is the buyers purchase history.

If the buyer has made purchases a few days after mine & has received feedback from a seller indicating payemnt has been made, i will file an UID.

I keep in mind Steve & Brande sell in a Ultra Competitive Category & the eight day period could be a lost sale should a buyer see a similiar DVD from another seller.

[bb_cool_stuff]

Some buyers will leave NFB when you do that.

Yes, unfortunately that can happen.

We have seen that many times on the boards.

[pierrelebel]

"It must be nice to be a "hobby" seller and be so lenient with customers to "serve" them as they wish."

I sold millions of dollars worth on eBay in the last fifteen years (over 105,000 transactions).  That is business, not hobby!  It is a metter of payment policy.  Each seller is free to decide how they want to handle payment.  I choose to be lenient and patient.  It has worked for me.