eBay

pierrelebel · ‎08-19-2015

http://www.ecommercebytes.com/cab/abn/y15/m08/i19/s01

sylviebee · ‎08-22-2015

@rose-dee wrote:
Where eBay is concerned, I doubt we minions can ever hope to collect enough facts to prove anything with regard to steps and decisions this corporation takes.

And really, Who Cares?

Proving this that or the other won't increase your eBay income.

rose-dee · ‎08-22-2015

sylviebee wrote:

And really, Who Cares?
Proving this that or the other won't increase your eBay income.

Ah no, but formulating a reasonable theory or understanding of what the problems and why they happen certainly can!

You can only work around an issue and create adaptive techniques for success if you have some idea of what you're facing. Otherwise, it's head-in-the-sand, blind faith. I think I'd trust my success (and income) to the former.

sylviebee · ‎08-22-2015

@rose-dee wrote:
@sylviebee wrote:

And really, Who Cares?
Proving this that or the other won't increase your eBay income.
Ah no, but formulating a reasonable theory or understanding of what the problems and why they happen certainly can!

Rose, you have complained over and over that you have very few sales.

You have proven many times over that """formlating a reasonable theory or understanding of what the problems (are) and why they happen""" doesn't work (or even help a little bit).

rose-dee · ‎08-22-2015

@pierrelebel wrote:
"... people who will always blame eBay for everything,..."

You are absolutely correct.

Sorry, Pierre, that line of mine was a bit of a practical joke. I tossed it in there deliberately, knowing someone would just have to respond. It was too good a hook to resist, I know.

Nobody blamed eBay in the "good old days" because, frankly eBay didn't have its fingers stuck into everybody's business (to put it politely). You and I have both been around long enough to remember that. In the "good old days", everybody with any brains was making money easily here. Now it takes far more effort. What I dislike is eBay's meddling with broad-stroke policy or not fixing issues where sellers are likely to be negatively impacted in spite of their excellent efforts.

Of the list you provided in your post above, there could easily be arguments in both directions. Sometimes the seller has only himself to blame (which is usually quite clear on these boards when it occurs); sometimes despite all best efforts and top performance, policies that eBay has implemented or flaws it hasn't addressed have worked directly against many sellers. Sometimes market or general economic forces play a role.

That's simply where we are today. There is a great deal eBay should have been doing, and still could do, to remedy many issues that affect seller success. There is a great deal many sellers should have been doing, and still could do, to help themselves. It isn't one or the other.

pierrelebel · ‎08-22-2015

"...It's so hot here (79 o F) and humid (100%) that I can hardly think straight today. We're just not used to this kind of heat here. ..."

The devil made me do it!

rose-dee · ‎08-22-2015

@sylviebee wrote:
Rose, you have complained over and over that you have very few sales.
You have proven many times over that """formlating a reasonable theory or understanding of what the problems (are) and why they happen""" doesn't work (or even help a little bit).

Sorry to disagree again, but it actually has worked extremely well. A good example was when a group of us managed to formulate a theory on what eBay was doing in the background with the .com cart disconnect. I now have enough assumptions, observations and information (mostly not from eBay reps by the way) to be able to make rational decisions on how to adapt and move forward.

Yes, sales have been very slow since early this year, even worse since late May, despite increased efforts on my part. I'm not complaining actually. Complaining just to gripe is useless. I'm reporting in the event others may be in the same situation and together we might be able to work out why.

And you know what? From formulating and postulating theories and gathering observations, I'm now able to form a reasonably coherent picture of why that is, and what I might be able to do about it. Applying that theory is the next step. If I determine there is nothing to do but wait and hope for a change, that in itself is a useful result. The conclusion may be that I need to focus on other alternatives (something I actually did quite a few months ago, having begun to see the writing on the wall here).

The activity you now see in my store on eBay represents only about one-third of my income from other sources. The fact that my eBay income is slumping in relation to those other avenues, and the fact that many other sellers in categories quite different from mine are reporting a similar phenomenon, leads to the conclusion that the problem lies outside my own ability to influence. Many, perhaps not all, of those factors can be reasonably connected to things eBay has done, or more importantly, hasn't taken care of.

It's an old formula: Observation + reasonable assumption(s) = working theory => applied action or decision.

rose-dee · ‎08-22-2015

@pierrelebel wrote:
"...It's so hot here (79 o F) and humid (100%) that I can hardly think straight today. We're just not used to this kind of heat here. ..."

The devil made me do it!

No, no, no, eBay made me do it!

sylviebee · ‎08-22-2015

Rose,

I look forward to your future posts on your new-found-success.

Congratulations!

rose-dee · ‎08-22-2015

I'm not sure why some posters feel that being snide and sarcastic is better than trying to understand (or accept) another point of view, but there it is.

For my part, "success" may ultimately lie elsewhere and could mean leaving here to pursue it. I don't know yet, and I truly hope that isn't the case. However, much will depend on what eBay has in store for us in the fall.

My hope is that they will make changes that reflect a better interest in, and support for, their smaller sellers.

pierrelebel · ‎08-22-2015

"much will depend on what eBay has in store for us in the fall. "

I have seen a few sellers using similar words.

eBay is a venue, nothing but a venue, where individuals can offer their "stuff" for sale and pay for the privilege.

While fees have increased over the years, eBay has remained profitable for most sellers. Typically fees are increased in late Winter or early Spring.

Policies are revised or modified on a regular basis. Big Deal. Next month eBay will announce changes to the feedback system. Many will find reasons to complain - of course. For them it will be the end of the world. The changes will be unfair. Who really cares?

At the end of the day sellers have "stuff" for sale that will or will not attract buyers. They may price the "stuff" right or overprice it. They may provide attractive terms or not. Buyers (not eBay) will make the decision to buy their "stuff" or not.

Sellers who cannot find buyers for their "stuff" - whatever the reasons - will continue to blame eBay.

And life does go on.

sylviebee · ‎08-22-2015

Rose, My comment wasn't meant to be sarcastic or snide.

There are numerous ways to increase sales of your filler items dealing with eBay "as is" and it doesn't require a thorough analysis of eBay.

It only requires more items which appeal to more buyers at competitive prices.

However, you said that you are only concerned with pattern sales. Really, you've done a wonderful job with your patterns but the market is very limited.

Etsy would be OK and maybe Amazon........ but even if you milk all outlets and venues, the number of people wanting reproduction Edwardian garments is very limited, and the number of people who sew these garments even fewer.

You probably have a product which you can continue to sell for years and years, but never in large quantities.

It has nothing to do with being a small seller.

It has a lot to do with catering to a small number of buyers.

rose-dee · ‎08-22-2015

@pierrelebel wrote:

eBay is a venue, nothing but a venue, where individuals can offer their "stuff" for sale and pay for the privilege.

With respect, Pierre, this is precisely where you and I part ways.

If eBay were merely a venue, and nothing but a venue, it would get its nose out from between buyer and seller, it would correct some fundamental flaws that directly affect buyers' ability to buy and pay, it would not be stacking the deck in favour of the biggest retailers, it would not be running custom advertisements leading to particular products and particular sellers, it would reform and simplify its policies so that even newcomers could understand how to sell here, it would dump its school-matronly system of seller punishments and go back to letting sellers sink or swim on their own merits, it would stop manipulating placement and visibility based on their own seller evaluation and switch to a system that better serves buyers' needs, it would focus its attention on making the site simply work reliably rather than controlling and micro-managing its sellers in order to make itself look like a single big retailer, and on and on.

EBay does in fact make decisions for buyers every day. If that weren't true, they wouldn't be touting particular sellers or products on their landing page, and they wouldn't be favouring some sellers' visibility over others as a result of an often flawed defect system (which they of course implemented).

On the wish-list side, if eBay were a mere venue it would:

- provide simple, user-friendly, clear and straightforward tools and then leave sellers to do the rest;

- provide reasonable rules to limit egregious and illegal behaviour, and stop there;

- provide a simple, easy way for buyers to rate sellers' products and service, and leave buyers to do the choosing.

The trouble is, eBay just can't leave well enough alone. I doubt they want to. Controlling sellers and meddling with the buyer/seller dynamic is now an ingrained agenda. It has permitted eBay to determine who sells and what they sell.

Three or four years ago eBay left behind the idea that anybody could come here and use the site as a mere venue, applying their own wits, experience and creativity to succeed. EBay decided it needed to transform the place to look like something that it alone determined would generate more sales, by focusing on certain types of products and certain types of sellers and interfering in many facets of selling.

This move was completely understandable from eBay's perspective as a corporation that needed fast money to satisfy shareholders, but it's almost absurd to claim that eBay today today is nothing but a disinterested and unbiased venue. Saying so would mean that everything except the "rent" (fees) and the locale is under each seller's direct control. We all know that is not the case.

Every new layer of rules and policy which eBay piles onto an already tangled web of policies and restrictions does have a direct impact on sellers and their ability to sell successfully. EBay is now anything but a mere venue, just a place to park one's shingle.

Unless a seller -- particularly a smaller seller -- understands this, it is very easy to assume that this site is completely neutral and that one's own hard work is sufficient to succeed. I see many new sellers who come to these boards obviously naively believing this to be so. They weren't told the house has stacked the odds behind the scene. It's rather sad to see some of them learn otherwise.

Knowing in advance that this is not simply a neutral location to park your business can make the difference between making a profit or sinking. Those who have "grown up" here and adapted along the way have a distinct advantage in that regard.

rose-dee · ‎08-22-2015

@pierrelebel wrote:

Policies are revised or modified on a regular basis. Big Deal. Next month eBay will announce changes to the feedback system. Many will find reasons to complain - of course. For them it will be the end of the world. The changes will be unfair. Who really cares?

And life does go on.

Please re-read my Post #7 above in this thread. Some of us do care, very much. Some of us have built lives around the businesses we run on eBay, whether full-time or part-time. I think it's callous to suggest otherwise.

Life does not in fact go on as before if eBay changes the rules in a way that can negatively impact a whole legion of sellers.

We who are still hanging on here are performing a very delicate balancing act, between satisfying our customers and satisfying eBay. Another stone thrown onto the eBay side of the scale can indeed make a big difference in many people's lives. The changes don't need to be unfair to be detrimental.

Which is why I always hope and hold my breath since 2012 when the Fall Update rolls around. We actually got almost a free pass in the Spring Update (to my utter relief), but who knows for how long?

rose-dee · ‎08-22-2015

@sylviebee wrote:

There are numerous ways to increase sales of your filler items dealing with eBay "as is" and it doesn't require a thorough analysis of eBay.
It only requires more items which appeal to more buyers at competitive prices.
However, you said that you are only concerned with pattern sales. Really, you've done a wonderful job with your patterns but the market is very limited.
Etsy would be OK and maybe Amazon........ but even if you milk all outlets and venues, the number of people wanting reproduction Edwardian garments is very limited, and the number of people who sew these garments even fewer.

You probably have a product which you can continue to sell for years and years, but never in large quantities.

It has nothing to do with being a small seller.
It has a lot to do with catering to a small number of buyers.

I'm afraid there is so much misunderstanding of my area of business here and so many incorrect assumptions that I'm not sure how to respond, but I will nonetheless try.

Let me first of all simply say that I do know a little more about my field of endeavour than you give me credit for.

What you see on eBay is less than 1/3rd of what I do, and not all of it involves patterns from a particular period, nor only patterns for that matter. I said my main focus is on developing sewing patterns, not that I'm only interested in selling patterns. I mentioned I have no interest in concentrating on being a re-seller of this-and-that, not that I've been unable to sell miscellany.

I actually have a larger product line and am involved in a number of other activities (in the way of services) in addition to what you see on eBay, which itself has in effect become a bit of a backwater for me.

Again, because eBay's policies were adversely affecting my ability to grow a portion of my business here, I transitioned to other venues some time ago for that purpose. I'm not a masochist. I am not going to put all my primary efforts into a place that proves not to be the most beneficial.

An important advantage I have on other venues (that I don't enjoy on eBay anymore) is that they do not interfere in direct seller/buyer relationships, a key aspect of my business. I know some here don't like to hear it, but for me eBay is on probation and I'm simply in a wait-and-see, monitor-and-decide mode for the next few months.

There is a large, ever-expanding, and wide-ranging market for historical patterns. If that weren't so, companies like Vogue, Butterick and Simplicity wouldn't be attempting to insert themselves into it. They are rather late to the game, though, and are often not providing what enthusiasts really want. Trust me, there are millions of them worldwide, as avid as stamp collectors, perhaps more so. That group of course doesn't include museums, historical exhibitors and venues, theatres and filmmakers, another sector of buyers I've worked with over the years.

I also have the advantage of being able to constantly introduce new products that are exclusive to my stores. Not many sellers can do that. I've had larger businesses approach me to license out my products, but I've refused, at least thus far, because I want to continue to hold that exclusivity.

I'm not going to publicly give away my marketing strategies on these boards, but suffice it to say that demand is, and will likely always be, higher than I can ever meet. I've really only been limited by my available time.

Not everything you see a seller doing on the surface on eBay is necessarily everything that person is actually involved in.

pierrelebel · ‎08-23-2015

Why don't you address your concerns to: http://for-business.ebay.com/trust-delivered-look-forward-ebay%E2%80%99s-head-trust

pierrelebel · ‎08-23-2015

"but it's almost absurd to claim that eBay today today is nothing but a disinterested and unbiased venue. "

Here we go again.... putting words in other people's mouth.

Nobody ever claimed eBay was "disinterested". Of course they are "interested". They should be. They have to protect the marketplace, their business. And there is nothing wrong with that.

That long list of "concerns" you express, post after post, has little to do with your claim that your eBay business is down. Think about it.

eBay favours "large sellers" you claim. How did that affect the sales of your exclusive patterns? Any "large sellers" offering these things? If so, what do they do to have buyers buy their products instead of yours?

At the end of the day, if your eBay business is down it is because eBay buyers decide not buy your products at the price and terms you decide to list. One of two things: either buyers for your products have moved to other venues or the market is no longer there. Whatever way you look at it "meddling with the buyer/seller dynamic" has nothing to do with eBay buyers not buying your products.

"Those who have "grown up" here and adapted along the way have a distinct advantage in that regard. "

??? Not sure what that means. Considering you have been on eBay for fourteen years, one would expect you to "have a distinct advantage". I have "adapted along the way." Was I wrong?

sylviebee · ‎08-23-2015

Riose, but you're all over the place.

I briefly mentioned other venues because you did. I don't know about patterns and I'm not a specialist in Edwardian reproduction garments. That's true. However, some of what I do know does transfers to your area of expertise so I'm not in the dark about what you do either.

That said, this is only about your many lengthy posts regarding your lack of eBay sales. It''s impossible not to notice your point of view.

I finally responded.

There is really no point in repeating the same things over and over. Is there?

rose-dee · ‎08-23-2015

@pierrelebel wrote:

"Those who have "grown up" here and adapted along the way have a distinct advantage in that regard. "

??? Not sure what that means. Considering you have been on eBay for fourteen years, one would expect you to "have a distinct advantage". I have "adapted along the way." Was I wrong?

No, you weren't wrong at all. That was precisely what I meant.

Those of us, including myself, who have adapted to eBay's constant policy reinvention and interference in the buyer/seller process (not to mention this marketplace itself) at least have the advantage -- or should have, after all this time -- of realizing that eBay is not a neutral zone. In comparison to callow newcomers, we are fortunate in that regard.

I know I've adjusted and adapted to every grand mal seizure in policy that eBay has had over the years, and particularly since 2012. So well in fact, that there is really little else I can do. That is my point. When I see sales dropping by over 25% since January, there must be other factors involved. Some, granted, are entirely external, beyond anybody's, including eBay's control. Others are directly within eBay's bailliwick, and a result of it's decision-making.

I dislike repeating myself, but I'll say it again: I didn't make the following decisions, eBay did, and each of these factors has had an impact on my business here:

Removal of the "Me" page, and along with it, any outside links, whether selling sites or not -- that really stung because Omniture was telling me a lot of people were visiting that page;
Leaving the .com "cart disconnect" to fester and reduce sales for those of us who rely on U.S. buyers
Practically making the formerly prominent "Contact Seller" link invisible at the very bottom of listing pages
Not permitting sellers to deal with returns on their own terms, or to deal with customers as they see fit, period.
Virtually outlawing digitally-delivered items.
Failing to put enough effort and money into security protection on such a major site to avoid cyber attacks, and failing to deal quickly with the aftermath.
Advertising big commercial sellers and their products on the eBay landing page -- the reason this has had an impact on sellers like me is because eBay has shifted its entire appeal to attract a market that is not interested in OOAK, unique or vintage/antique items
Interfering with the market in such activities as arbitrarily "improving" sellers' photos (probably robotically). While I realize this was likely a test balloon, tests tend to eventually become reality on eBay
Last but not least, a transition (according to Raphael) of all sellers to the "new format" storefront, like it or not. This plain vanilla format doesn't allow sellers to directly communicate with their buyers via Promotion Boxes, Custom Boxes, or other useful tools that are currently available with stores. The loss of these will be another blow.

There are more, which I don't think I need to list in order to illustrate my point that eBay is not "just a venue". It's become a sort of weird hybrid between a major retail site (like Sears, Home Depot, et al) that has total control over its venue, and an open listing site. That's not a great mix for a lot of its traditional sellers.

rose-dee · ‎08-23-2015

@pierrelebel wrote:

Nobody ever claimed eBay was "disinterested". Of course they are "interested". They should be.

Actually Pierre, I'm afraid you did say eBay is disinterested by claiming eBay is just a venue and nothing more. You've misunderstood the English meaning of that word (and I do realize your first language isn't English). So for those who may be reading these posts, a dictionary definition:

"Disinterested - free from bias or impartial".

It is, even with English speakers, widely confused with "uninterested", which is not the meaning I was referring to, but rather neutral or impartial.