05-15-2013 12:09 PM
I purchased a SanDisk Extreme Pro 128GB CompactFlash Memory Card from a seller in China.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/111046695039?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
When I got it in the mail it was only an empty jewery box!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/70216406@N08/8685061444/in/photostreamI
So I opened a paypal claim and went throught he process and describing everything. So in the end paypal said "After careful consideration, we're unable to decide this claim in your favor at this time."
That is total BS that payal is in favore of the scammer. I never got any reply from the seller or refund. Now what do I do?
05-15-2013 01:14 PM
If you used a credit card to pay it contact the credit card company.
05-15-2013 03:57 PM
The PP policy on refunds is that, if the seller does not willingly refund, PP will and then go after the seller for their money.
However, PP will not do this until the buyer has returned the item to the seller with Confirmed Delivery. Because you do not mention this step, I would guess that you lost the case because you did not prove that you had returned the item. (In this case the "Not As Described "item would be the empty box.)
It is very expensive* to return items overseas with Delivery Confirmation, so when buying bargain priced items, it is useful to factor in a high chance that the purchase may be unsatisfactory.
*Over $40 and up for ExpressPost International.
05-15-2013 04:27 PM
I guess I could have sent the empty box back but doesnt make scense considering the cost of shipping. My pp case was just that "Not As Described". I guess I will know for next time.
05-17-2013 01:41 PM
There's the right way, the wrong way and the eBay way.
The principle is that neither party can have both the money and the widget. And the only way that PP can ascertain is if the widget can be shown to be returned.
This requirement does cut down on completely false demands for refunds.
From the point of view of the seller (and many of us are honest, really B-) ) scamming buyers are known to claim "empty boxes" or to return bricks instead of the original item. So it does come down to trust.
The problem is not limited to PP. Any online/mail order transaction shares the same weakness. The best we can do is be honest in our own lives, if only for our own concience' sake, and not to send away more money than we can afford to lose.
None of this is a reflection on you. I am sympathetic to your problem.
05-20-2013 12:26 PM
I got scammed too. Cell phone $150. from Hong Kong. Took so long to get it to work, and it never did. I kept in contact with the seller, who was excellent. They promised a refund and I mailed it back to them in original box, etc. Then, I emailed them to find out status and their email address is not longer valid. PP dispute denied because it was over 90 days. I can't even send them an Ebay message to find out a new email, or if they just missed me and still intend to pay.
05-20-2013 01:20 PM
Raymond, even if you had received the item, its unlikely that it would have been a genuine SanDisc card. When buying any type of electronics or computer related item, I would highly recommend staying away from Asian sellers. Obviously many people are happy with purchases from Asia but in certain categories I think that the chance of being scammed is higher so its best to buy from a North American seller. That way, if you are not happy with the product, you won't have to pay $60+ to send an item back to the seller.
05-21-2013 10:50 AM
Raymond, even if you had received the item, its unlikely that it would have been a genuine SanDisc card. When buying any type of electronics or computer related item, I would highly recommend staying away from Asian sellers. Obviously many people are happy with purchases from Asia but in certain categories I think that the chance of being scammed is higher so its best to buy from a North American seller. That way, if you are not happy with the product, you won't have to pay $60+ to send an item back to the seller.
I highly disagree with this statement. ANY TYPE OF ELECTRONICS? Really? ANY? Why?
Besides a personal bias against asian sellers, what is the rational?
Do your due diligence.
Is the price and product comparable and verifiable without you seeing it. Don't expect a Samsung S4 for $150, it will be a knock off, but could be good knockoff if that's what you want. Don't expect a Samsung S4 knockoff to be $30 when all the rest are $150. Buy from a reputable seller, check their feedback. Check feedback relative to that specific item, work WITHIN the rules of ebay and paypal.(Don't wait 60 days and then complain you were ripped off..... you weren't. You didn't put in the claim) Buy with a credit card through paypal to be doubly protected. A true chargeback will trump a paypal/ebay decision. Do this and the vast majority of your purchases will be what they are advertised as and what you expect.
The facts are the vast majority of Asian location sellers (and all sellers) are honest. Don't be afraid to make that step, but be careful when you do.
It's easy to say 'don't buy' but there is a a relatively large savings by doing so. Maybe you prefer to pay the markup/overhead from a NA seller who............buys the SAME electronics From.....CHINA/ASIA.
What if the cost in NA is $100 and CHINA $1. There is a value between the two and it's up to smart buyers to realize that. While the $99 is atypical and likely indicates a fraud, the point is that there is a cost benefit to buying direct. NA sellers use the fraud/easy returns/bulk buying to resell at a profit closer but almost always charge a premium to for that service. By buying direct you save on those, but of course, you take on the responsibility of due diligence.
It is just a simple matter of economics. You will , on average, save money buying direct from Asia but you are accepting more responsibility in the sale when you do so. Sellers in NA know this and price accordingly, sellers in Asia know this and price accordingly......scammers know this and price accordingly.
It's not Obviously many people are happy with purchases but the vast majority are happy.
Of course after all that, I would agree to never buy any flash memory from anybody other than an authorized reseller. NOT from Asia, NA, Canada anywhere. Do not buy flash memory from anybody who is not an authorized seller. Why? Because very specifically flash memory is extremely easy to counterfeit relative to it's value. Most people don't even know it's counterfeit until after their vacation or backup when only the first 256MB or 1GB of memory was saved and the rest written over. It's very very very easy to make a 256MB flash card/stick read 32GB, 64GB, and add on a penny for a sticker and there you go.
As for this particular case, if I bought an item, and that item did not show up. I would start an item not received. It doesn't matter whether an empty box shows up or not. A shipment of an empty box means nothing to Paypal. It happens often (when claims are concerned) where the item is not on the package either through damage during shipping, customs inspection (this is to the US where they randomly confiscate for testing) or theft if the item is left in a public place by the carrier, and of course in the case of direct fraud from a seller as this appears to be.
If you don't receive your item put in an ITEM NOT RECEIVED claim. Paypal doesn't make you send back an empty box.
05-21-2013 11:01 AM
You could...........
Try to repair the package as much as possible............ make it look as if it was never opend and looking at your photo you'll be able to do that no problem.......
Then print return to sender (RTS) on the package and send it back.
(If it comes back to you ship it again.)
It's been shipped with tracking and the tracking should show a straight line right back to the shipper.
File a claim for Item Not Received before 45 days have expired......... which is the truth.
If you drop it off at the PO and give it to them instead of dropping it in a box (an option) they'll ask if it's been opened ..........
(Well, you know what to say ?:|)
It works. That is, tracking shows that the package went right back to the shipper.
It costs you nothing, and IMO it's worth a try.
I wouldn't advise this very often, but your situation just begs for this kind of treatment.
05-21-2013 11:08 AM
Wouldn't it show on the Tracking Number that the item was received by the buyer i*m ?
I wouldn't advise this very often, but your situation just begs for this kind of treatment.
I probably wouldn't either & two wrongs don't make a right, but you have to feel for the buyer.
Let Karma take care of the seller.
05-21-2013 11:15 AM
Karma fixes nothing!
This, however, works!
I have no idea why you think it's wrong for the buyer to do this?
It's not immoral or unethical or wrong .............. in any way I can see.
It's just one way to stay one step ahead of the crooks.
05-21-2013 11:16 AM
As for this particular case, if I bought an item, and that item did not show up. I would start an item not received. It doesn't matter whether an empty box shows up or not.
Except... that would be a total lie. When you open a claim, PayPal always asks if you received a package. If you say no and you did (empty or not), that would be lying on an "insurance claim". Because let's face it... Item Not Receive is like an insurance claim.
05-21-2013 11:20 AM
Besides a personal bias against asian sellers, what is the rational?
The bias is well deserved. I am not biased, we own LLC company registered in Hong-Kong with Chinese partner and let me give you few arguments against asian sellers:
Because everything is made in Asia, people tend to think the items must be much cheaper there. Actually in many cases the opposite is the truth as electronics and genuine parts made for North American market is almost never sold on the Chinese market. Especially for reputable brands like Apple, Sony, Texas Instruments, Intel, etc. The only units that may leak out are stolen, QA rejects, unauthorized production runs, etc.
Small Chinese companies do not believe in Quality Assurance. They manufacture and then sell without even trying to power up the unit because it costs them 5 pennies to test. It's not uncommon to have 25% or higher failure. In fact I have been delivered several hundred units of electronic modules where half units were not programmed, which confirms they never even turned them on. Fortunately we wer able to get the code and program the units.
Some knock-offs are very poorly made, they pass 2-3 parameters but fail another 5. Chinese supplier copied a device and substituted operational amplifier with inferior part saving few pennies in the process. The functionality was ... marginal. Again, I had several hundreds units and 90% failed the test. Supplier refused to cooperate despite their claims of warranty and customer satisfaction. So I personally swapped $0.10 tiny SMT part on few hundred units and sold them almost at cost with disclosure.
There is many industrial items and services from China in comparable quality as western, but consumer market products - be very careful. They always try to save pennies on the all wrong places.
05-21-2013 11:22 AM
It's been shipped with tracking and the tracking should show a straight line right back to the shipper.
That would be a solution. Not recommended in every situation, but in some cases, that would be appropriate. Because the seller will get back his "item" and the buyer will get back his money. Except that it's now too late for raymond-tech2000 since the claim has already been opened and closed. The only way to recover the money is to do a chargeback with the credit card company (*IF* a credit card was used to buy the item).
05-21-2013 11:26 AM
as a seller, I have had claims for a $500 Canon 7d (broken) sent Xpress, and signed delivery, an Apple Nano $70, $400 laptop (confiscated by US customs) and more where the buyer claimed they received only an empty box.
In each case an ITEM NOT RECEIVED claim was started, and they won. Luckily I was insured for most, and most were legitimate claims, but maybe a couple were from scammers.
Point is, if you don't receive your item, you don't receive it. Then put in an item not received claim.
Paypal and your CC company doubly so does not care whether it was sent, not sent, arrived empty, ripped open, signed, unsigned, left on a porch, etc.
If you don't receive the item, put in an Item not received claim. This includes an empty box. You have no idea why it was empty, but it was. There was supposed to be something in there, there wasn't. There are many reasons why it's empty. Point is, you didn't get the item. It's not there. Put the claim in. If paypal doesn't cover you (they will) , then your CC company will for sure.
No need to be sneaky. If the item is not received, put in an Item not received claim.
05-21-2013 11:34 AM
The bias is well deserved. I am not biased, we own LLC company registered in Hong-Kong with Chinese partner and let me give you few arguments against asian sellers:
First, this is strictly anecdotal information you provide and you have only provide personal information. While I have a lot of complaints about ebay, if there was a significant number of claims coming from Asia, they would discontinue it as it would cost them more. than it was worth. Do you see a lot of Nigerian sellers here?
The facts are the vast majority of sellers from anywhere are honest and deliver what they are selling. To categorically dismiss an entire geographical location and race and sales category because of a few scammers is poor advice.
05-21-2013 11:36 AM
That would be a solution. Not recommended in every situation, but in some cases, that would be appropriate. Because the seller will get back his "item" and the buyer will get back his money. Except that it's now too late for raymond-tech2000 since the claim has already been opened and closed. The only way to recover the money is to do a chargeback with the credit card company (*IF* a credit card was used to buy the item).
Exactly.
These "clever" Chinese sellers shipping empty boxes with tracking because they know they can get away with it and shipping with tracking costs them nothing.........
It blocks the buyer from filing and Item Not Received claim.......
But.......... ship it back!
Right Back Atchya Bucko!
IMO: Very Appropriate.......
05-21-2013 11:41 AM
I don't disagree with anything that was posted, just not positive it could be done.
Don't get me wrong, there would be a sense of satisfaction sticking it to the scammer.
05-21-2013 11:46 AM
I'd still open a second claim....................
I'm not 100% sure but pretty sure it's possible if it's a different claim.
I've never done it myself......... but I've read on this board many times about buyers opening a new claim after the first was lost.
I'm not sure how that works........... maybe by going back and forth between paypal and ebay and also by opening different types of claims.
You can go from item not received to item not as described............... so you can probably go the other way as well.
In any case............... resealing the package and shipping it back costs nothing and takes a few minutes of your time.
Once that is done........... then you can make a decision what to do next.
05-21-2013 11:51 AM
I don't disagree with anything that was posted, just not positive it could be done.
Don't get me wrong, there would be a sense of satisfaction sticking it to the scammer.
I know that it works as far tracking goes.................. it's worked for me in the past more than once.
The tracking shows a straight line back to the shipper.
After that, as far as cases and claims go........... that's about each individual transaction ........... BUT........
The tracking will show that the item was shipped back to the sender, and I'm not sure what paypal or ebay would or could do with that info other than refund.
It might also be possible to treat it as a tracked (free) return?
In any event.......... using the RTS function makes sense and is the logical first step........... ASAP.