Item Not Recieved Process

[nonstopchatter]

I hope I not the only Canadian Power seller who is flabbergasted by this latest proposal. Only 17 days to file a claim now....International transactions can take up to 3 months to complete when surface mail is used....and 3 to 4 weeks for surface mail from Canada to the US is certainly NOT unheard of. What is ebay thinking???? I just recieved a rather backhanded postive feedback from a buyer in California whose item arrived 3 weeks after I mailed it (mailed one day after her payment). She has been asking for a refund since day 10. Had this new process been in place I have no doubt she would have filed as soon as possible...in spite of my level headed and helpful responses to all her questions. There are just those buyers....several a month if you do any volume. This is bad bad bad for International sales.
Karen
http://pages.ebay.com/help/announcement/9.html#question9

[shoplineca]

Karen
There is already a thread dealing with this and lengthy feedback on it from evertone (myself included):
http://forums.ebay.ca/thread.jsp?forum=44&thread=100012395&modified=1100807705785

Malcolm

[nonstopchatter]

Ah.....a couple days late I see. I am glad to see that its been discussed....and I hope everyone has emailed ebay to voice their concerns using the email address - INRprocess@ebay.com

[fashion-files74]

This is a HUGE concern! Typical shipments take anywhere from 1 to 3 weeks to arrive.... I can only see major losses in payment in this new implementation.

[darlg]

I just read up about this and I think I am going to be sick.
This is another avenue where the seller will be loosing out.
All my shipments are small packet and not tracing of the shipments. Shipments to the US can be 1 to 3 weeks. I have so Many UK and Australia shipments and they can take 6 weeks or more.
Very discouraging.
Dar

[darlg]

Also I never knew that there was a item not received process in the first place.

I ship a lot of units per month and in the course of the 5 yrs I have been on EBay I think only 2 or 3 items maybe 5 the most in 5 yrs have been lost.
So my product gets there but the timing factor is the issue at hand.

dar

[shoplineca]

The "Item Not Received" procedure deals with Buyers filing under the "Buyer Protection Program" which is principally a PayPal program although they may file through eBay.

A Buyer will have to file their complaint under the program and you have 10 days from then to respond by advising when and how the item was shipped.

Before their filing has been accepted, the Buyer will receive a notice from eBay about extra time being required for International shipments.

Even after all of this, assuming you will have a Buyer file under the program, eBay wont do anything before 30-days from the end of the auction and 99% of you have already said your shipments take a maximum of 3 weeks to arrive, so it is safe to assume that your items have been delivered before the 30-days is up.

I would suggest that if you have NEVER had a customer file a compaint under the Buyer Protection Program (assuming firstly that you and your items are eligible for the program) then you have little to worry about in terms of future filings.

I would also suggest that if the customer didnt pay you by PayPal you have even less to worry about.

This is not the same thing as filimg for a PayPal chargeback for non-delivery of product, this is strictly filing under the Buyer Protection Program. This program has limits on how much it pays the Buyer and charges a fee to the Buyer.

There is no more or less of a threat of a Buyer leaving you negative FB and rude comments due to changes in these terms as bad Buyers can do that 1 second after the auction ends anyway.

I honestly dont see the problem unless you have already experienced customers filing complaints under the program or expect that they will because of a change in the program. Most dont know anything about the program anyway except that most of us have the little icon on our listings.

eBay is attempting to encourage more communication between the Buyer and the Seller before excessive amounts of time elapse which could prohibit a Buyer from recovering their payment should an item be lost in transit.

Please also remember that 99% of programs, rules and policies created by eBay are done so (a) with the Buyers in mind and (b) based on the majority of Buyers and Sellers being out of the US.

Malcolm

[nonstopchatter]

Feedback is the least of my worries...it is the huge potential for misintepretation of this new process by buyers that has me worried and the huge potential for more fraudulent claims quicker. And not all my packages arrive in 30 days.....surface mail items to overseas destinations can take 3 months to arrive. I cannot count the number of new or over anxious buyers that I have had to hand hold for the weeks that it takes for items to arrive. And I willingly do that...its my job as a seller with good customer service. I have refunded out of pocket for 5 items that have gone missing permanently. I willingly do that...its my job as a seller with good customer service. I will NOT sit idley by while ebay tells my buyers (who often don't read half of what I write to them let alone what ebay intends to write to them) that they can file a dispute against me in 7 days when there is NO chance that their item could should might be delivered. Its ludicrous!
Karen

[shoplineca]

Karen
This is not money coming out of your pocket should a claim be filed. This is either money from eBay through their Fraud program or PayPal through their Buyer Protection Program.

There are lmitations, $500 USD for PayPal and $200 USD for eBay and each have a $25 service charge to the Buyer for filing a claim SHOULD it ever be paid.

Do you honestly think that eBay or PayPal are going to immediately cut a cheque in favour of your disgruntled and impatient customer the minute they file notice that they havent received their item, 7-days after the auction eneded?

This is not PayPal taking money out of your PayPal account to reimburse a Buyer. The change affects the terms of the Buyer insurance program set up by eBay and PayPal to give customers some confidence about purchasing on eBay.

There is NO change to anything outside of the Buyer Protection plan which few Buyers and apparently few Sellers have read anything about.

Malcolm

[imagi.nation]

There actually is a problem with eBay's current proposal of the program. Their intent is, in part, to try to help the problem of e-mails sent to buyers not being received due to some buyer's over-aggressive spam filters. However, eBay's mistake in the opinion of myself and many other sellers is twofold:

1)Naming the process "Item not Received"
2)Allowing the "INR" to begin after 7 days.

The concern is that some buyers, who we all know read every single word of carefully chosen text that is written on eBay's site and in our listings, will look at the term "Item not Received Process" and the phrase "Can be initiated in 7 days" and shortcut the process to mean "If I don't get my item in 7 days I can start this process to complain that I haven't received my item." This idea has the possibility of opening an avenue for unrealistic buyer expectations, buyer confusion and generally invites friction between buyers and sellers. While it may be true that it doesn't mean that buyers can easily commit fraud on us sellers, it does open up an avenue where we sellers will have to handle a higher volume of questions from buyers and by its name puts us in a position of defending ourselves where no defence is necessarily required. We will have to answer "but eBay says" questions.

If eBay's intent truly is to alleviate concerns on the part of buyers about not receving communication from their seller, then the process should NOT be called "Item not Received". While a communication process that allows sellers and buyers to communicate within eBay itself would be a good thing, this isn't the way to go about it.

It is a poorly planned and badly explained program by eBay, and that is proven by the amount of negative reaction in the thread that is currently devoted to it. Both sellers and buyers are unanimously against the current proposal and repeatedly covering the two points mentioned above. If so many sellers are somehow misunderstanding the process then that would seem to prove that eBay needs to go back to the drawing board on this.

[shoplineca]

Here is my question concerning this proposal: Where will the Buyers see the change in terms to this program?

I am assuming that it will be a change in term within the Buyer Protection Program and unless a Buyer reads the Help page dealing with the Buyer Protection Program he or she will not know about the change to a 7-day term for to first report non-receipt of goods.

Should eBay elect to boldly post the change on everyone's listings that Buyers can and should commence filing a complaint after 7-days of non-receipt of an item, then I wholeheartedly agree with many posting here that it would be a great concern to all Sellers, especially those outside of the US selling into the US.

On the other hand, should this change in terms simply remain semi-burried within the terms and policies of the Buyer Protection Program, as I suspect it will, then the majority of Sellers will not see any difference such as an increase in claims being filed under the program.

Remembering again that the funds to reimburse the Buyers under this program come from eBay/PayPal and NOT the Seller, I dont believe that this is something that eBay is going to showcase, ready to start cutting hundreds of thousands of blank cheques to complaining and impatient Buyers.

Malcolm

[nonstopchatter]

shopline....right.....but don't you think that I would refund rather than have a black mark on my record?
Karen

[shoplineca]

Karen
I dont disagree with Sellers not wanting black marks however the process to file under the Buyer Protection Program has always been there. The only change, which will not be marketed, is reducing the time a Buyer may file a claim to now be 7-days.

I am only suggesting that 99% of Buyers dont bother and wont bother making any claims under the program. They will continue to send their emails to you, they will continue to send their emails to eBay and if they feel duped, they will apply to PayPal for a refund of their purchase price but NOT under the Buyer Protection Program, rather just as they do today.

Why would a Buyer opt to pay a $25 service charge under the Buyer Protection Program when they can get 100% refund by simply making a claim to PayPal that they didnt get their goods?

Similarly, they can get 100% refund from their credit card companies by making a claim with them that they didnt receive the goods.

This change deals with a specific program that has a limit ($200 USD for eBay claims and $500 USD for PayPal claims) and both have a $25 service charge.

I would suggest that this program kicks into action and would be primarily used when a Seller no longer operates a PayPal account from which PayPal can access the Sellers PayPal account, their Bank Account or their Credit Card.

Similarly, if a transaction under $200 occurred where eBay has no recourse against a Seller to recover funds (perhaps they are no longer a regstered member), then the insurance proceeds would pay a Buyer subject to the $25 administration fee.

As I said before, this is an insurance program that is intended to provide some assurance to people concerned about purchasing online. The changes are to promote early communication between Buyers and Sellers under the Buyer Protection Program.

There is nothing in the changes that have suggested that (a)eBay or PayPal are going to pay out claims sooner that previously under the program (perhaps when hell freezes over) or (b) that Sellers are going to receive black marks any more than they are subject to get right now. As far as I know, the only black mark given is negative FB and there is no minimum time limit for a Buyer to leave negative FB aside from waiting until the auction ends.

Malcolm

[nonstopchatter]

Okay...doesn't seem ridiculous to have an "Item Not Recieved" process that can be started at day 7?
Sure, lets have a "Seller not Communicating" process. No problem at all.
This idea of having a "communication tool" being called an Item not Recieved process is ridiculous.
Having a communication tool called a dispute centre is also ludicrous.
And lumping sellers who don't communicate with sellers who don't ship...is also ludicrous.
And lumping domestic and International sellers together is ludicrous.
I've seen no less than 4 questions on the Answer Centre today from buyers that I have no doubt would have loved to jump on this bandwagon at the earliest opportunity.
This new process cannot help me. For sellers like me who offer first class customer service and who play by the rules...this can only do harm. How fair is a new process that can only harm sellers who play by the rules??
Karen

[novafashions]

Hello everyone!

I have been following the thread actively and I haven't had a chance to finish it yet.
I thought I would come here to see how other Canadian sellers felt.

A little about me..., I'm a long time PS (I've never used the icon), although I don't do high ticket items on ebay anymore. I've done well over 2000 transctions (2 ID's, all positive), I ship quickly (SP Air which usually arrive in a week for me, or Express), and I always answer emails and keep customers advised. Customers have my address from my initial EOA and my phone number after receipt of their parcel. In short, I try to be a conscientious seller. Perfect...? No I'm not.... But any hiccups have been few and far between, and easily worked out. I note the preceeding only to point out that I am not a seller who is expecting problems or creating drama where none exists.

I would be delighted to have a forum where I could contact customers, especially considering the issues re email filters and spam. I do however, have reservations with the tone and implementation of this current feature. I've been here for nearly five years and have seen many changes, so I will reserve judgement until I feel I'm more versed, but I will admit I have some concerns.

Shoplineca (Malcolm), could you expand on the following, or direct me to where I might read up on it? I am interested in Point A, and particularly intrigued by Point B, so I assume there are some stats somewhere. Thank you!

Please also remember that 99% of programs, rules and policies created by eBay are done so (a) with the Buyers in mind and (b) based on the majority of Buyers and Sellers being out of the US.

Lynn

[shoplineca]

Lynn
Sellers can be easily replaced, Buyers cant. For every new couple of Buyers on eBay one of them will likely become a Seller. Few Sellers are truly unique such that loosing them will be that much of a loss to the community or hurt eBay sales as there will be one or two or perhaps multiple sellers picking up the slack and the pieces.

Sellers put up with incorrect billings, down-time, increase in fees, lack or response or incorrect responses by automated systems, etc etc etc. and still they stay with eBay.

Loosing Buyers because of lack of confidence in the system even for the slightest hic-cup often means the loss of many potential Buyers through word of mouth and bad publicity.

If eBay had been created with the Seller in mind, it wouldnt be here in its present financial glory. It has policies which favour the Buyers. Even those buyers who are Naruud are able to easily get a new userid.

We post our credit cards and are subject to various charges while the Buyers dont have to. I could go on and examine and comment on every rule and every practise in relation to the favourtism towards Buyers but the fact remains that eBay has been created to be a user friendly place for Buyers and that is often at the expense of Sellers. From a business perspective, it make perfect sense.

If you follow these boards, you will have read how many times Sellers report on eBay and PayPal ruling in favour of the Buyers over the Sellers.

I am not here to debate you and if that is what you want then you will have to look elsewhere, I am not the enemy.

I am simply trying to caution everyone on getting overly excited with a change in policy that is directly related to filing claims under the Buyer Protection Program and assuming that there is an invitation extended to Buyers to start filing compaints at 7-days from the end of an auction somewhere else outside of that program.

I have asked for anyone to point me to where this change in policy has any affect outside of the Buyers Protection Program and what those conditions now are and no one has done that yet.

I ask you what black marks are in the new rules to be given to Sellers? What reprucussions to be handed out, what monetary charges to be levied?

If you think that Buyers are going to flock to eBay and start filimg complaints in 7-days, then why didnt Buyers flock and file a complaint before as there wasnt a time limit on filing complaints previously, that is one of the changes and certainly a change that benefits Sellers.

What has been shortened is the time to file a claim under the program which is generally 10 days after the Seller has filed his complaint. Once again, why would a Buyer file a claim that will be subject to a $25 charge when he can simply apply to PayPal for a full refund for non-delivery without any charges being levied?

I dont know of any Power Seller where a Buyer has ever filed a claim under this program and I cant see a sudden mass filing of claims as a result of shortening the time to file a claim.

Now we have 7-days for the Buyer to wait before he can file a complaint, which we didnt have before and everyone is getting upset? Why didnt everyone get upset before when there wasnt 7-day waiting period? Because few knew anything about the terms and conditions of the Buyer Protection Plan I guess.

Malcolm

[novafashions]

Malcolm, my apologies, I was certinaly not in any way looking for a debate.... and truthfully, I'm rather taken aback by your response....

I am not here to debate you and if that is what you want then you will have to look elsewhere, I am not the enemy

The last thing I considered was you being an enemy, I'm not even sure why you would think that...?
It was simply a question, and I thought perhaps you had read these stats somewhere and could direct me to it, nothing more.

The rest of my post was in general and not directed specifically to you. I indicated I hadn't come to any conclusion yet, and felt I had to become more versed in it before I decided exactly how I felt about it.

I have reservations or concerns about many things, it doesn't mean I'm upset about it or crying "The Sky is Falling".

I had noted I would actually be delighted to see a communication tool of some sort in place.

I came here to see what the views of other Canadian sellers were, briefly described my own experience, and indicated my take at this point

No hidden agenda...

Regards,
Lynn

[novafashions]

I meant to add to my second post just before this...
I highly agree with the following excerpt on another thread, from Malcolm(Shoplineca)....

I also wouldn't play up the "we are in Canada" bit too much or you will find that you are chasing away repeat customers who will associate late deliveries with dealing with Canadians.

[shoplineca]

Lynn
Sorry, its just I foolishly got involved with this particular thread by suggesting that people were over-reacting by not-reading or understanding what the changes were.

I was getting tired of trying to simply tell people to understand what they were concerned about before attacking eBay and perhaps what I should have done is just let everyone go on raising fear and emailing eBay with their complaints.

You will see where I have jumped in about 6 times in this and another thread dealing with the same issue and I should have just backed off and was probably just getting generally frustrated at what seemed to be people not reading the full details and seeing exactly what the changes were.

Unfortunaltely I think some of that frustration seeped out in my resposne to you and I am sorry for that.

What confuses me is that there wasnt any previous time period for a Buyer to file a complaint for non-delievery and now there is a 7-day period and Sellers are complaining. Why are they complaining? Because they werent conversant with the previous policy.

So if no one received complaints before under this policy when there was no time limit for making a complaint, why would everyone expect an increase in complaints when Buyers now have to wait 7-days?

I think I will stay away from this particular thread as the results of the change in policy will probably have no effect on myself or any other Power Seller anyway.

Malcolm

[novafashions]

No problem but thank you Malcolm!
I've been reading up on it, off and on all day, so I understand how overwhelming it becomes.

Lynn
(First Seat, First Clarinet...) 🙂