Item not rec'd, seller not cooperative and Paypal is not effective...very disappointed!

[sbillington140]

Hello,

I made a purchase for an item on ebay.  The transactions (2)  included the item, shipping and import fees through GSP (Pitney Bowes)

The seller sent the item however, I did not receive it although the tracking states it was successfully delivered.  I live in an apartment biulding and strongly suspect the Canada Post delivery person left the item against my apartment door unsecure and someone walking by stole it.  A Amazon purchase shortly after this package was to arrive was left this way.  Got lucky nobody stole this item.

I contacted Canada Post and described the situation.  They stated only the sender can make a claim for the "lost" item.  I contacted the seller via Paypal and provided the details of the situation and the advice provided by Canada Post.  The seller claimed his hands were tied because he sent the item to ebay and ebay sent the item to me via GSP (Pitney Bowes).

I escalated the claim through Paypal by telephone.  They reversed the GSP fees and later dismissed the item claim stating the seller had provided proof of shipping.  I was quite clear I didn't doubt the seller sent the item but I cannot make a claim without their cooperation or Pitney Bowes.

Who is accountable in this situation?  How can I get my money back?  Could I have acted any differently to prevent this outcome?

I sincerely appreciate any advice you can offer.

[pjcdn2005]

Who is accountable in this situation?

Technically neither the seller or the sender (PB) is accountable because according to the post office,the item was delivered to you. It may been stolen while in your building or perhaps the post office delivered it to the wrong place but according to paypal and ebay rules, the seller is only responsible for refunding a customer when there is no delivery confirmation showing that the item was received.

Your said that the seller isn't cooperating but in your situation, the seller is correct in that they can't deal with the post office because it was Pitney Bowes who directly sent you the item. The seller was responsible for sending the item to PB who in turn was responsible for sending it to you.  If PB originally sent the item through USPS then they would have to file a claim with the post office.  There is no guarantee that USPS would help them though because the item shows as being delivered and/or the item may not have been insured.

This  really is  a tough situation without an obvious solution.  Have you tried phoning ebay and explaining the situation? They may provide you with a 'courtesy' refund. Or they may be able to get PB to investigate.

[femmefan1946]

Further, if you backed your Paypal payment with a credit card, you can go to that company and ask for a chargeback.

Do this after you have exhausted the eBay/PP route.*

Have all your transaction numbers, values and dates handy for the customer service clerk.

*If only to give eBay another reason to understand that the Global Shipping Program is badly flawed, when Disputes arise.

[sbillington140]

Thanks for your responses.

I don't fault the seller in the sense they did send the item.  I'm livid with Canada Post and more specifically the delivery person who went against Canada Post's policy regarding the securing of packages.  All because the individual was too lazy to write the delivery card advising to pick-up at the nearest postal outlet.

Paypal was aware of the situation (same one I described here) and they have failed to advise properly or act as an intermediary to help resolve the issue.  If Pitney Bowes (through the GSP) is be be addressed to resolve by filing a claim with Canada Post they should advise me of this and contact Pitney Bowes.  I shouldn't be out-of-pocket nor should be seller in my opinion.  The seller (who has more leverage than little old me) could have as a customer service concern contacted eBay and push to resolve.  But he has his $ and nothing to further to gain.

I'll take your advice and contact eBay directly if I can able (lots of gate keeping around here).  I am thoroughly disgusted how this has been handled to date.  I've been using eBay and Paypal since 2002 without incident and when I ask for assistance they let me down.  I also find this ironic given the GSP controversy as this is a major complexity in my situation.

I'm sad to say I may discontinue Paypal and eBay because of this situation.  It doesn't make sense to let me get burned for something I had no way of controlling.

[lady.stark]

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@sbillington140 wrote:

I'm sad to say I may discontinue Paypal and eBay because of this situation.  It doesn't make sense to let me get burned for something I had no way of controlling.

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I may have a better solution: do not buy from sellers using GSP.

[marnotom!]

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@lady.stark wrote:

I may have a better solution: do not buy from sellers using GSP.

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But if sellers don't use GSP, then they're likely going to be sending their items by mail and the buyer won't be any further ahead when it comes to the issue of security of delivery.

Seems to me that if this is going to be an ongoing issue with the buyer, they should get a post office box.

[sbillington140]

Thanks again for your responses.

The problem with GSP and this situation is the seller denies responsibility because he sent the item to eBay's central hub in Kentucky and eBay sent the item to me from there.  That being said, the seller believes he isn't the party to file the claim.  It should be eBay.

I understand the seller's perspective as this was 2 separate transactions, the item and the GSP fees, both paid to separate parties.  I don't think Paypal understands the transaction under these circumstances.  What I found interesting they were very eager to reverse the GSP fees, thus severing themselves from the problem itself I suspect.

It appears I will swallow the cost.  I can't even file a complaint with Canada Post.  I will put a note on my door reminding the delivery person not to leave packages unsecure at my door.  Unfortunately, I cannot avoid delivery of packages totally.  I can't see myself purchasing a post offce box because my Canada Post delivery guy lacks common sense (at best).  I hate encouraging stupidity but I guess this would protect myself as well.

Thanks again,

Disappointed and discouraged.

[pierrelebel]

"I can't even file a complaint with Canada Post. "

Here is what you can do.

Write (by mail) to the local Post Office sorting station manager - whoever is directly responsible for the mail carrier - with copy to Canada Post Head Office in Ottawa and your member of Parliament (I am not kidding).

Explain the situation - keep it short and to the point (nothing to do with GSP, PayPal, Pitney Bowes, etc) - file a "formal complaint" against the carrier and ask for a full refund of the purchase price.

Then be patient.  The system is very slow - more so in summer with people off on vacation - but you should expect an eventual response.

Good Luck

[lady.stark]

When the package was delivered, were you at work? Because if you were, why not use your work address as your shipping address?

A few months ago, that is what I began to do, because the mailman changed. And this one is really lazy. Instead of putting a notice in my mailbox or even put the package near my door (inside the building), he leaves the packages OUTSIDE where anyone can steal them. And most importantly, where it can be easily damaged by rain, wind or snow. From that moment, I now use my work address as my shipping address. I get my packages instantly without any damage. Fortunately, my boss is very cool with that. 😉

[lady.stark]

It's strange... I posted a message here yesterday, and it's not there anymore. And many posts that I already read are showing as not read. (Yes, I was logged in.... 😞  )

[2011limey1]

lady.stark - I TOTALLY agree with you.  I have not and will not purchase any item with GSP.  All you have to do is read posts every day from upset buyers.  My buying has slowed down significantly anyway, even without GSP because of ridiculous shipping not only from U.S. but in many cases Canadians (yes, I know how much costs have risen.)  As I've said before I've only been a member since 2011 but used to buy a lot and my Favourite Sellers in the States I notice haven't gone to GSP, but what I used to buy from them just isn't worth it any more because of shipping.  Too bad, I love ebay.

[marnotom!]

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@lady.stark wrote:

It's strange... I posted a message here yesterday, and it's not there anymore. And many posts that I already read are showing as not read. (Yes, I was logged in.... 😞  )

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The .ca and .com boards were "down for maintenance" (hmm) for some time yesterday.  When they came back up, about a day's worth of posts had gone.  My guess is that a back-up had to be used for the data and this back-up is updated every 24 hours or so.

[pocomocomputing]

There is an announcement of the outage on the main forum page on ebay.com

http://community.ebay.com/

We had a database outage on Monday afternoon. We are currently showing content that was saved during our last backup, and we are now working to recover the content created since that backup. If we're successful there will be no lost content.

Thank you.

[lady.stark]

Thanks poco and marno! I guess I'll wait until tomorrow to see if my message reappear. If not, I'll post it again. <sigh>

[gifts_of_elegance]

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@marnotom! wrote:

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@lady.stark wrote:

It's strange... I posted a message here yesterday, and it's not there anymore. And many posts that I already read are showing as not read. (Yes, I was logged in.... 😞  )

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The .ca and .com boards were "down for maintenance" (hmm) for some time yesterday.  When they came back up, about a day's worth of posts had gone.  My guess is that a back-up had to be used for the data and this back-up is updated every 24 hours or so.

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I thought "Maintenance" was to make sure things run properly.  My posts have disappeared too along with all the comments.  I also note that now your name has a (1) behind it (for feedback received in Nov12) whereas it showed (0) before.  Can you explain that too?

[marnotom!]

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@gifts_of_elegance wrote:

I thought "Maintenance" was to make sure things run properly.  My posts have disappeared too along with all the comments.  I also note that now your name has a (1) behind it (for feedback received in Nov12) whereas it showed (0) before.  Can you explain that too?

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Obviously I can't pull out a feedback comment dating back nine months out of the area below my tailbone, so it's not like I've done anything. 

To be honest, I never noticed that my feedback was showing as "0" prior to this.  I'm more concerned with trying to offer advice than how I'm "dressed".  😄

For what it's worth, that "1" was for a test listing for a U.S. seller experimenting with the GSP.  I offered to help him with it and we both learned a fair bit about how it works in the process.

[lady.stark]

Well, it seems my post has disappeared for good, so I'll try to remember all the things I said.... (not in the same order)

A few months ago, there was a change in my area: the new mailman is VERY lazy. Instead of leaving a card advising me to pick up my parcels at the Post Office, like the other mailman did, he leaves them outside the building where anyone can steal them and more importantly, where they can be damaged by rain, wind or snow. I live in a condo, so the least he could do is leave the packages INSIDE the building.

My point is: since that time, I now use my work address as my shipping address. I now receive my packages instantly and safely. So if the OP has the same problem, maybe using her/his work address would be a good solution. If it's possible of course.