NPB Have Rights to leave NEG FB!!!!!

[shoplineca]

I see it over and over and over again. Sellers keep stating that NPB should NOT have the right to leave Negative FB. BS!!!

I understand that most instances we are personally familiar with, our NPB are people who simply dont complete the deal however that is not always the case.

I have been a NPB on 2 ocassions and would be very upset to not have the right to leave the Seller NEG FB and negative remarks, after all that is what the system is all about, reporting how a seller handles a transaction, as much as how a Buyer handles a transaction.

Imagine winning an auction and the Seller changes the terms on you and wants double for shipping. Should you not have the right as a Buyer to NOT complete the deal and should you loose the right to leave Negative FB and loose the right toleave a negative remark?

Or the seller thinks that you won the item too cheaply and he doesnt complete the deal by not sending you any payment details, just ignores your emails. Shouldnt you ave the right as a Buyer to Neg the Seller and leave appropriate remarks for other Buyers about that seller?

The list of reasons why a deal has not been completed is huge and the NPB is no always the guilty party.

The common saying today is "Think outside of the box". As long as everyone keeps hitting eBay with their ideas about changing the rules about NPB and thinking only about the Sellers' side, then eBay will never pay attention to you.

The easiest thing is to say "No rights for NPB to leave FB" however I am personally tired of seeing sellers not get a little more creative in their suggestions for an improvement.

I dont like getting negs either, especially from NPBs but there are alot of scam sellers out there and I would like to know that Buyers before me were allowed to leave them with neg FB and a remark as to what the problem with the seller was.

Malcolm

[sunset_sports_cards]

I agree somewhat, however I just had a buyer not pay and leave me a neg saying "Ripped me off Loser!!!" And then the buyer was NARU with 5 or 6 other negs shortly there after. I still have the neg and the bidder was turfed. I don't think that is right either. E-Bay needs to re-visit the feedback policy that to avoid those types of negs. I do not have a problem getting a deserved negative but I do when it is not warranted.

[shoplineca]

I agree. I have similar negs however unless we collectively come up with a better answer than telling eBay over and over that NPB cant leave FB, NOTHING will ever be done.

The obvious solution is for eBay to employ people assigned to quickly consider facts and render a decision based on the merits of why protested FB should remain or not.

eBay unfortunately is a hungry money-making machine and any thought of them doing this in recent years can now be totally tossed out the window.

I would therefore suggest the following to eBay:
That eBay, without making any compensation to those who volunteer, allow selected or elected Power Sellers and possibly a forum of experienced Buyers to volunteer their time to look into complaints of FB as left by either Buyers and/or Sellers and make a decision of whether such FB should remain or be removed and that eBay respect the decision made by such a group.

If we want eBay to be a better and safer place to sell and buy, perhaps eBay will include its "members" as part of the solution to one of their ongoing problems, rather than continuing to operate the company in such a autocratic and cavalier fashion.

Any comments?

Malcolm

[mr.rockinger]

As far as I am concerned, neg fb is reserved for fraudulent transactions, such as non-delivery, non-functioning items, misrepresentation.

I do not neg NPB. Often people have good reasons not to follow through the transactions, like losing a job, got kicked out of the house by their spouse, sick, accidents, etc. Non-pay is not fraud. It's a breaking of a contract. I let eBay deal with NPB.

Although I have not been a NPB myself, I do think both the buyers and the seller have the same right to voice their opinions. To ask eBay to look into each and every situation is ridiculous. The existing system works just fine for me.

[barriemetals]

I have been with both deserved and undeserved feedback and though the feedback system is flawed the fact remains that feedback is more important to the seller then to the buyer.

I have filed numerous NPB and never put a strike against anyone just to play it safe that they won't neg me because I hurt their account. I leave the NPB alone and just restock that product if for some reason they do pay after a month or so, I say they lost their chance to pay and the item is no longer available to purchase. Fortunately no buyer has paid that late.

Malcolm, I think that ebay sees that if they were to include its members as part of the solution, it would require a tier system of who uses the site more. Obviously Powersellers (US then Canada) would be first up followed by feedback rating I suppose. I am not sure how they could work it but it seems like it would have to be quite the system.

I wonder if EBay reads these threads cause then in a way they are getting our input and possibly making changes in light of that. Then again I have not seen the thread "EBay should increase their fees"

Steve

[sunset_sports_cards]

If a buyer negs you mr.resenter you wouldn't leave the same? Boy I want to buy from you and not pay. Feedback is also for non payment. Why would any seller in their right mind want a bidder who isn't going to pay? With the feedback I can find out by looking at there feedback and turf the bid respectively. There are far more "test drivers", "kids" that ruin the auctions than people that are sick or getting in accidents.

[sunset_sports_cards]

(EDITED)If a buyer negs you when he/she is a non-payer mr.resenter you wouldn't leave the same? Boy I want to buy from you and not pay. Feedback is also used for non payment. Why would any seller in their right mind want a bidder who isn't going to pay? With that feedback I can find out by looking at their feedback and turf the bid respectively. There are far more "test drivers", "kids" that ruin the auctions and others buying experiences, than people that are sick or getting in accidents.

[mr.rockinger]

sunset,
First of all, I have NEVER received negs from NPB. The way I handled the matter is by soft approach. I NEVER confront a late payment. It won't get you anywhere.

If I received a neg, I always return in kind, and made the comments amusing but factual. That's how I mind my business.

As far as eBay goes, how do they know for sure that a buyer has not in fact paid. He could have paid you money order, cash. Do you expect ebay to find out who is telling the truth? Sellers can be fraudulent too.

Please do buy from me. Send me cash. No. Seriously, most European buyers paid me in green back (too expensive to buy m.o. there). They trusted me and the postal servic and I always delivered.

[shoplineca]

It has been said in this thread, that as a Seller FB is more important however I always float dangerously close to loosing my Power Seller status because I sell items that are fairly expensive and I dont sell massive amounts of them on eBay.

As such it only takes 2 negs and I am out. On the other hand, I can go on a buying spree, purchase 10 items for $1 from 10 distinct sellers pay immediately and get my PS status back with blazing comments about what a great eBayer I am, la di da.

No, the FB systm is getting a little tired and has lost much of its value due to abuse and the ease at which a person can establish or re-establish themselves.

But that's where greed gets you and eBay is more concerned over marketing the fact that it has millions of members (even though there are likely some people with more than 25 distinct user ids), than it is concerned over fraud.

Whether members like the FB system or not clearly has to be near the very bottom of the barrel in terms of if and when they may review it with the idea of implementing any changes.

Malcolm

[mr.rockinger]

I really don't understand the big deal about leaving fb. I do ebay for fun and some pocket change. People ought to do some serious deep breathing when negs get their heart pumping wild.

I will take this opportunity to tell a story, may or may not be relevant in this discussion.

I had a buyer from Quebec who bought an item from me and did not pay. After a few exchanges, he confused he had bought the similar item somewhere. I didn't pursue it with him, rather I filed a NPB. He then paid and I shipped.

I thought the matter was settled until about 3 weeks later, he told me he didn't like my attitude. After a few more exchanges, he send me a registered mail in French. I, of course, played dumb and took the opportunity to make fun of him. I asked him if he was peddling penis enlarger. He obviously denied it vehemently.

A few days later, I received a pos fb from him. That's how I mind my business.

[sunset_sports_cards]

You may be lucky in that respect mr.res. But I can tell you I have had neg from a non payer. Guess what? He got booted and I still have the neg, which I might add is crap. Why do I as a SELLER have a negative remark from a buyer who has not paid? It is not right, and feedback should be left for non-payers. All I wanted to do is get paid and complete the transaction. Like I said earlier if I have it coming....I will gladly take it. If your approach works for you that is great, but it wouldn't work for everyone. You have just been lucky so far for not a getting a neg for no apparent reason. I agree with Malcolm in that the FB system is tiring and needs to be changed, BIG TIME!

[mr.rockinger]

You don't seems to get it, do you.

When you file a NPB, how could ebay know who is telling the truth. It's all HE SAID, SHE SAID.

If you are so concerned, pay $20.00 and let ST handle it. You just don't pay ebay enough for them to be referee on each and every dispute.

Since you think the fb system is flaw, why are you paying so much attention to it in the first place?

[mr.rockinger]

P.S. I don't think I was just being lucky. What does luck got to do with it? It HAS to do with how one interact. If you cause another person embarrassment, humiliation and anger, even that person is in the wrong, you bet he is going to neg you. Imagine somebody cut you off in traffic and you roll down the window and yell at the driver, you think he is going to say sorry to you? Leaving neg fb is equivalent to giving you the finger on ebay.

Plus, you think the fb system is flaw, yet you rely on the same system to judge and evalute buyers. See the point?

[imagi.nation]

Since you think the fb system is flaw, why are you paying so much attention to it in the first place?

So you're suggesting that anything that has flaws should be ignored? If so, how do you recommend anything get better if no attention is paid to it?

[shoplineca]

Interaction has little to do with someone intent on leaving negative FB.

I certainly have no understanding of people who use the BIN let alone win an auction, and have no intention of paying and then turn around and leave negative FB. That said there are hundreds of sellers who have done nothing aside from list a product and end up with a neg before they even send out a congratulation's email to the winning bidder. How could they have handled the interaction any different?

As far as ST is concerned (and I have been involved in 2 sucessful ST resolutions), it only works if both parties are receptive, same with both parties leaving negs and proceeding for mutual FB withdrawl.

The feedback system was a quick fix to a problem eBay had dealing with bad Sellers where one could develop a track record to reflect how good you are in satifying customers. It also reflected how good a buyer you are.

However, by itself it was destined to failure as most things in life are if left to themselves without any proper policing of misuse.

That being said, the FB system has been abused to the advantage of bad Sellers and bad Buyers who set themselves up to scam others on eBay.

eBay has to accept full responsibility for the continuing erosion of the system as the confidence in the FB system decreases with each and every misuse, then so does the very trust Sellers and Buyers have in eBay as a safe place to do business.

I will reserve my comments on how much value I see people foolishly place on the FB system, those with 100% positive getting their 1st neg and feeling as if the whole world is falling in around them.

Certainly I cringe and get upset at anytime I receive or am threatened with getting a neg, that is natural. I would like to strangle the idiot that leaves me a neg. I can also say that I could have avoided the last 2 negs, not because I did something wrong but I could have bowed to the demands of the customer, but why should I?

If eBay wont employ the people to police the misuse, then why dont they appoint or cause to be elected, some member volunteers to review FB complaints and render decisions to reverse FB, or comments or even recommend suspension following some fairly logical guidelines.

I am sure that everyone on eBay would love the opportunity to have a panel of their peers review FB complaints and perhaps overturn negative FB left should conditions warrant.

Its a no-cost idea for eBay that will pay back big as the FB system will undergo a much needed improvement through the possible elimination of unwarranted FB.

Malcolm

[systemagic]

It seems to me that, once a buyer becomes NARU'd, given the high probability of unfairness, any negs that he left on the way to becoming NARU could be automatically removed. This wouldn't solve all unfair FB problems, of course, but would clean up the situation to some degree.

[shoplineca]

A member can become Naru'd for a variety of reasons. Suppose a Seller is Naru'd for copyright/trademark infringement. The comments and FB they left hav ittle to do with the reason why they were naru'd.

Malcolm

[sunset_sports_cards]

mr.res, nope...don't see your point at all. I think Malcolm answered it all above. 😄