Need help about a buyer issue, please...

[purse_of_the_legionary]

Hi,

I have a buyer who emailed me about a possible mistake with his order, he said he took a chance to email me before to leave negative. I have a return policy and told him to return the item for a refund, and even offered to ship a little gift for free to thank him for his patience. He asked me to refund the shipping cost to return the small bubble mailer back to Canada, because it was (possibly) my mistake. I was ok with it, but this morning he emailed me with the tracking number and shipping cost : $27.85 US !!! Insured and delivered within 14 days, he said !

I paid $6.70 to ship air mail, insurance included, delivered within 7-10 business days... Even if he decided to purchase USPS Expressmail with insurance, it would have cost not much than $15...

I was about to respond that I am not happy and not willing to pay that shipping cost, but I smell negative feedback... That's why I decided to ask for other Powersellers opinon or ideas.

Any thoughts ? Thanks...

[ricarmic]

To me stuff like this is a cost of doing business. Frustrating it might be but it is "only" $35. Not worth the negatives, the 1s and 2s and your time worrying about it. Likely you don't get many of these a year so $35 won't show up as a big cost. One can depend on losing a couple 100$ a year for screwups of us or the buyer. I call stuff like this "promotional expense" that makes me feel better about it. Spend the time you'd have written the note back listing more stuff, that's the best financial solution, in my eyes anyway!

[purse_of_the_legionary]

@ ricarmic

Thank for your response, you are probably right. But I just thought of something :

My return policy clearly states that shipping charges are not refunded. In other words, I'm offering to pay kindly, like a gift to compensate the situation. Would it be considered as "feedback extortion" to offer to refund the item value when it will be received (according to return policy) and kindly refund the shipping charges AFTER positive feedback is receive, even if not mentioned in return policy ?

I disapprove feedback abuse, but it doesn't seem to be an extortion to offer something not mentioned in return policy once transaction is completed, like a promise to do a little extra something for the buyer...

[purse_of_the_legionary]

Thing is, I have absolutely no guarantee that I won't receive 1s and 2s, or even negative feedback, after I will have sent his refund for the item + that abusive shipping cost to return the item...

[ricarmic]

No matter what you do, risk of 1s or 2s remains. Doing what they ask, which you've already agreed to and is under $35 probably gives you the best chance at not getting 1s or 2s. I have also had very frustrating and unfair (from my perspective) requests from buyers but fortunately there are only a very small number each year and the costs have been similar in size to what yo have here so I just keep reminding myself it is a cost of doing business and I try not to get too fussed about them.

I have had some problem buyers that turn into good buyers down the road so sometimes grinning and bearing it pays off.

PS you could've probably listed 2 more things whilst you typed your responses! 😉

[surplusdealdude]

I think ricmaric has a good handle on this.

Probably, in hindsight, it would have been better for you to advise the customer which service to use, since almost everything, including First Class Mail, can be sent with delivery confirmation ( NOT tracking, that's only Express).

Your email may have led the buyer to believe that he had to use Express, so I don't know if you can blame him for following instructions exactly.

I'd pay the money and chalk it up to a learning experience. -------------------------------------------------------------------

Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. Carl Sagan

[westernstargifts]

That happened to me awhile ago. I agreed to pay the return shipping for a buyer and her husband sent it registered mail because he had had a bad experience with another seller in the past.

Although I had not agreed to pay for registered mail, I had agreed to pay the return shipping and I did because I stand by my word. I chalked it up to experience and determined from now on to inform them that I would only pay for regular mail and reasonable shipping cost. Also I would only pay for return shipping if it was my error or the product had a defect. I have had some very frivolous requests lately.

[surplusdealdude]

I have had some very frivolous requests lately.

I did CSR work for a short period of time for one of the major cellphone networks in the States and some of what happened there may describe what you're going through.

In January, we got a pile of requests to downsize people's accounts - some of the accounts were stripped down to just basic service and nothing else.

We discovered that it was people trying to economize because the Christmas splurge left them short of money and they were scrambling to make it up wherever they could.

A lot of people also accused the company of "tricking" them into making purchases of services as a ruse to getting contractual services cancelled without penalty.

These people were often desperate to save money where they could.

There's a recession on and it has hit disproportionally hard in some areas - people are desperate again.

So the requests may seem frivolous to you but they're essential to the people making them.

Hopefully, that information might help you deal with some of the aggravation that comes with these requests. -------------------------------------------------------------------

Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. Carl Sagan

[westernstargifts]

Well in the case I mentioned I had reshipped 2 items that had not been received. They did arrive right after I reshipped.

The buyer already had her products plus 2 extra items for which she had not paid. They were very small in size and it would have cost no more than $2 or so to ship back. They had NOTHING to lose but the postage as I had no proof that I had sent the last 2 items. I had more to lose than they did because they could have just kept them. I am not so quick to reship now either because too often late orders arrive the day after I reship. And because they sent them registered mail it ate up all of the profit I had made on the original purchases.

The items I sell are mostly inexpensive and they don't have to buy them in the first place if they can't afford them. I don't believe that the all of the reasons that people give are honest. They don't want to admit that they didn't read the description and ended up with something other than what they expected. Some want the item really bad and order it knowing that it is the wrong size "just in case it might fit" and then want a refund when they find out what they already knew before they ordered it. I have had people send a message asking if something will fit and then purchase it within minutes before I even have a chance to respond.

This doesn't happen a great deal but I have had a few just recently. I wish people could just be honest when asking for a refund. They would rather blame the seller for their mistake than own up to it themselves.

[cartoonsinabox]

Hey Purse of the legion,

You indicate in your post that your buyer claims you sent wrong item ? so buyer should not have to pay return shipping if this is right ? I also suggest to request proof of shipping cost (fax or scan email of recept). I have had situation happen in the past and refunded shipping cost.

Frederic

[axe_n_gear_music]

In this case, I would refund the 35 bucks, thank him very much for being such a great, understanding customer (BS baffles brains), and move on.
35 bucks is peanuts and not worth the inevitable bad feedback.

Cheers,
AXE

[jakeeangel]

"Would it be considered as "feedback extortion" to offer to refund the item value when it will be received (according to return policy) and kindly refund the shipping charges AFTER positive feedback is receive, even if not mentioned in return policy ?"


Yes that would be considered Feedback Abuse/extortion and would get you in trouble. Don't do that.

I would also suggest that in the future when you accept a return from a customer YOU specify the return shipping method so you don't pay the highest priced service. Yes, I believe what they chose was Express mail. The price seems about right for that service. $15 is for Priority Mail International from the US to Canada.

I don't know what you shipped but I would think First Class Mail International would have sufficed. You can ship up to 4 pounds by First Class Mail International.

[purse_of_the_legionary]

@ all

Thank you for your messages and good advices, I think I finally did the good thing (AKA refund and keep smiling). I just learned that it would be a good idea to discuss about the shipping service with a buyer who wants to return an item (it was only my second order mistake on 1700+ feedbacks, no negative with 100% score).

[surplusdealdude]

You're doing OK, that's for sure.

And I don't know about the others, but I learn something here every day. -------------------------------------------------------------------

Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. Carl Sagan

[purse_of_the_legionary]

Oh my, I just learned I will be charged $58 of duty tax and fees by UPS to accept the return of a $100 item. In other words, I cost me almost $100 from my pocket to hope to receive positive feedback from buyer (shipping cost to ship the first time is refunded $7.50 + UPS shipping cost to return the item $28 + $58 duty tax & fees). I really hope that there was really a mistake with that $%!/$&# order !!! (I always double check before to ship)

[dipmicro]

Most of that is brokerage:

http://www.ups.com/content/ca/en/shipping/cost/zones/customs_clearance.html

And this is only part UPS keeps. I never done this but I read that people refused UPS clearing their shipment and submitted their own paperwork. Don't know if you can do this on already brokered shipment. I have UPS brokerage account and they often call me if I want them to clear my incomings. However, if there is no phone number to call, they have little choice but to clear themselves. Next time ask your party to add your phone number to shipping documentation.

$13 is GST + PST. Your accountant will tell you how to claim this portion back.

The rest is duties. Again, since it's a return, see if you can claim this back. Brokers routinely assign wrong code on small value shipments, so if you are self-clearing, more accurate code may happen to be duty free one.

[purse_of_the_legionary]

I just received the package and paid the $58 of duty tax and fees...What a waste of money.

It's getting worse, the buyer returned the item exactly as pictured (told me I send wrong item). I am defenseless, he's taking me from behind without lube and I can just shut my mouth (and refund). Thing is, my return policy states that buyers can return item for a refund, less shipping cost. But as it was my mistake (buyer said), he found a way to screw me and getting a refund for all charges (I'm loosing $100 in fees).

Anyway, the buyers can do what they want around here, screw the sellers as much as they want with the new feedback system. They have definitely the big end of the stick.

Even if eBay offer to sellers to put 'returned item will be paid by buyer', it is so easy to take advantage as a buyer.

Now I have to bow to all my buyer's needs, otherwise bye bye the 100% rating in my feedbacks...

I miss the old days on eBay...

[cartoonsinabox]

If you say item was well described with picture. Why not simply refund item less shipping cost. Take the negative feedback(I was looking at your profile won't hurt you so much). He is probably going to leave you a negative feedback no matter the outcome. I think sellers are taking this feedback thing too seriously(they are working for Ebay on top paying them).

If you are offering the best product as described and good shipping with competetive prices then there shouldn't be anything to worry.

I say refund item less shipping and move on.

Frederic

[surplusdealdude]

marsu's got a point there - these costs are a result of your wanting to avoid the neg.

I think you've gone too far to back out now in good conscience - a sudden reversal might be improper.

But something to keep in mind for the future. -------------------------------------------------------------------

Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. Carl Sagan

[purse_of_the_legionary]

Thanks, but it's so hard to let go when rating is still 100%, but threatens by a newbie - The guy had 0 feedback when he purchased, bid on the item very high, and probably realized it was too high by comparing with similar items, decided to screw me. No need to be very intelligent to understand that it is very, very easy to steal an eBay seller since they made the feedback system changes. I just hope eBay is still working on this system to offer (maybe one day) a better protection to sellers.

I really feel that eBay is telling me : "If you want to make money on our marketplace, you have to accept that only buyers have the big end of the stick around here, you will be rubbed and abused, we know it, but on our side we can live with it as it costs nothing to us that you are being abused. If you can't live with the fact that we tolerate abuses from buyers, please go away as we don't really give a damn about sellers (AKA others who accept to be screwed will take your place in your niche)".

Just venting, thanks for reading...