eBay

toysandstuff2015 · ‎02-17-2016

I recently sold a Lego Creator Eiffel Tower (2000.00 +) to someone in Toronto. The package was insured for the amount, tracked, and signed for. It was delivered at 10:37 three days later and signed for. Within three minutes the buyer emailed stating that the item was broken and damaged and therefore demanded their money back. I asked for them to place a claim through paypal and help with Canada Post. For half and hour their repeated emails insisted that I should send the funds back directly that they would not file a claim. Then they changed their story, it wasn't that the item was damaged but that it was sent to the wrong address, and that the signature Canada Post had was not theirs. Again they demanded their money back but insisted that I send it directly rather than go through paypal claims. Canada Post insists the package was sent to the right address, and the person won't talk to them to help with a postal claim. Now they have emailed me (I suspect by mistake) in a list with all their friends listing a kijiji ad for the same item I sold them. Despite all of this their refusal to talk with Canada Post makes any insurance claim impossible and they have started a claim through paypal based on not receiving the item.

How do you protect from this sort of scam? This terrifies me. In the last week two of my high end items for 1000.00 and 2000.00 have been hit with this. People get the item, which is tracked, etc by the post office, then claim they did not get it, file a claim for their money and seem about to win. How do you stop this?

mr.elmwood · ‎02-18-2016

@pjcdn2005 wrote:
@mr.elmwood wrote:
Mine reared it's ugly head again today. Well, it is getting to be enjoyable as I have a pen-pal now. Because I had tracking, this is what the buyer has been told:

Canada Post 2/12/2013 case closed
eBay 2/13/2016 case closed
Paypal 2/13/2016 case closed
Canada Post 2/15/2016 case closed
Canada Post 2/17/2016 case opened. I am a "fraudister" now.

Today's case will be closed as well. The more they are losing, the more they are attacking me.

eBay and PayPal both state the package is in our control until signed off. Well, yours and mine are signed off. We have done our part as defined by PayPal, eBay, and the Post Office.

I'm not sure what you mean by all of your Canada post case closed/ opened etc but did you tell Canada Post that the buyer says they didn't receive the package and did they say they would look into it?

You sound as if you 'know' that the buyer really did receive the package yet mistakes can be made. How are you so certain that a mistake wasn't made in this case and that the buyer does not have a legitimate reason to be upset? I'm not saying that you are responsible for the problem but there may be ways you can help...assuming you haven't done so already.

Those cases were opened by the buyer and closed by CP They were investigated by CP at that end. What I was told, was that the letter carrier had it and dropped it off the morning of Feb 8. It was the regular mail carrier for that route. I was told that the designation of "back door" is part of the address, so that is where it went.

Do I think I am being "scammed" over an $18 ash tray? No I do not. Was the parcel delivered to the buyer's door? Yes it was. What happened after that, I do not know.

I do, however, object to being yelled at and called "stupid" and "fraudister" after Canada Post has already told this person that the parcel was delivered to their door.

When the buyer first contacted me, I supplied the tracking information, to which they immediately replied to with insults. They then launched into a tirade of them telling me what I was going to do. Most of the tirade occurred after CP closed the case.

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pjcdn2005 · ‎02-18-2016

That's interesting. I didn't think that the receiver could open a CP case, only the sender.

sylviebee · ‎02-18-2016

@mr.elmwood wrote:

Do I think I am being "scammed" over an $18 ash tray? No I do not. Was the parcel delivered to the buyer's door? Yes it was. What happened after that, I do not know.

I was just listening to a talk show where participants described how they'd watch as parcels were left in doors and then run up and grab them.

They loved the excitement of finding what was inside the 'mystery" packages.

It can happen.

hlmacdon · ‎02-18-2016

@sylviebee wrote:
@mr.elmwood wrote:

Do I think I am being "scammed" over an $18 ash tray? No I do not. Was the parcel delivered to the buyer's door? Yes it was. What happened after that, I do not know.

I was just listening to a talk show where participants described how they'd watch as parcels were left in doors and then run up and grab them.
They loved the excitement of finding what was inside the 'mystery" packages.

It can happen.

It can definitely happen, but ultimately it is up to the buyer to provide an address that is secure to ship to. In the same manner, sellers can't control if someone's community mail box is broken into. Post office boxes are a viable alternative if a buyer has ongoing issues with theft of their mail. Buyers that go through the process of filing a police report will sometimes receive a refund from ebay/paypal when this issue arises but it isn't a given.

ricarmic · ‎02-18-2016

In the example that happened to me, the CP updates said successfully delivered to community mailbox.

Buyer said they never got it.

In my example I had to open the case with CP to get them to cover it. They did cover the loss.

In my example it worked out that I was able to send another batch of similar items to the buyer so they were happy as well, but it was me who had to pursue the case with CP to get them to cover the "delivered but lost" package. Because of this there were no cases opened, so that didn't come into play.

momcqueen · ‎02-18-2016

I've had two times where tracking said delivered but the buyer contacted me to say they didn't have it. With both, I assured them I would speak to Canada Post and provided them all the instructions necessary to settle their nerves. I didn't send replacements; but I did keep the lines of communication open and sympathetic. Neither buyer was particularly hostile, however, and neither package valued at more than $100.

Ultimately, if a parcel is stolen from your doorstep, you need to speak with police. Porch-shopping is a real thing. I'm home every live-long day so it's not an issue for me but I do feel for those people for whom this is an issue.

mr.elmwood · ‎02-18-2016

My buyer started with "Where's my part?". I provided the tracking number, after I checked it. I sent the number and the link to the results. I don't know what is coming next.

Well, what was next was calling me stupid, not a good choice, and threatening me with PayPal. I made all the calls I needed to, provided the buyer with all the info they would need.

It wasn't until after I had inquired at my PO, that I realized they went off on me after the PO in North Bay said "delivered, case closed".

I will do almost anything for a customer, afterall, I was retail for 35 years. Yell at me, threaten me, call me names? Hum? I know the protocol for dealing with that. It is called "incident reports and notifying superiors" which is exactly what I did.

Say: "I think it was stolen, what can you do to help?", and, we have a whole different ball game.

My customer is angry for a lot of reasons, none of which had anything to do with me.

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toysandstuff2015 · ‎02-25-2016

Thank you all for your advice and taking the time to listen. I filed with Canada Post asking not for a refund or coverage which I had paid for but for them to investigate. They claimed they delivered it to the front door and had a signature and then quickly closed the case without talking to me. So I am in the midst of a paypal dispute which largely has devolved into he-said, she-said regarding whether it is their signature. The buyer has a huge resistance going to Canada Post which to me is a flag, but who knows. I find it frustrating that there seem to be so many institutional responses from Canada Post, Ebay, and Paypal. It never seems to be anyone's responsibility to try to help. We will see. Thank you all.

momcqueen · ‎02-25-2016

I honestly don't see how your buyer can 'win' this case with PayPal but I have not ever been in this particular position. I'm thinking the onus will be on the buyer to prove it is not their signature by means of filing a police report. You might want to get a jump on that yourself. Attempted postal theft?

pacificwinds6875 · ‎02-25-2016

Just was wondering how things turned out for you? I do hope well.
P.S. Dang it! I had a Lego Eiffel Tower the year they came out for a gift for my son, 2 days later he found the "hidden" xmas gift and told me he wanted a different set - If I had just kept it......heavy sigh.

toysandstuff2015 · ‎04-22-2016

I relented as refunded the funds Canada Post stated that they could only state that it was delivered not confirm where. The user threatened to hit me with negative feedback. So I am out the money and the item.

hlmacdon · ‎04-23-2016

@toysandstuff2015 wrote:
I relented as refunded the funds Canada Post stated that they could only state that it was delivered not confirm where. The user threatened to hit me with negative feedback. So I am out the money and the item.

That feedback would have been removed, as would have any subsequent negative feedback since they were extorting you at that point. No idea why you folded like that, doesn't make any sense given the circumstances you have described.

steamtrain420 · ‎04-26-2016

your lucky it wasn't a brilliant fraudster....

I brilliant one would have sent you the ''damaged'' item back replaced with a bag of sand of the exact weight of your item ( that's what they normally do or a variant of that) and your money would have all be gone...

you have been very lucky my friends.

this is how it work with ebay fraudster helper program.

dark_phoenix9273 · ‎04-27-2016

Watch out, if you say something bad about ebay, the cheerleaders come on here and tell you that we have to let buyers scam us or they wont stay happy and buy from us. Wrap your head around that logic friends.

pjcdn2005 · ‎04-27-2016

Please point out 1 post that says to let buyers scam sellers?

toysandstuff2015 · ‎06-20-2016

Some people just keep emailing and emailing. Ebay customer service and the resolution centre continually prompt you to refund the user's money. If the customer refuses to assist Canada Post they simply shut the case as there are no developments beyond their information that the package was delivered and signed for. I talked to the police in Toronto who responded that it was not a high priority and get back to me. Several months later and they have yet to contact me. The result being that I gave up. I have had other issues with other packages in similar ways. Lego sold and delivered (Taj Mahal, London Tower) which were also listed as successfully delivered, but which the users claimed had been damaged in the mail and were refunded automatically by ebay customer guarentee. These users also refused to assist the Post Office in their inquiries and so the cases were shut with no refund.

A user I am currently dealing with (6 times a day via email) received a large Playmotil set, but claimed they needed it the morning of the day it was delivered, and not in the afternoon when it arrived. As a result they threw it out and want their money back, because of the extreme delays in shipping. To be clear the item left Toronto on the Friday and three days later was in San Francisco. They have also stated that they will not help Canada Post.

There has to be a way to protect against this.

pjcdn2005 · ‎06-20-2016

Please see my reply on your other post. You should be usin eBay seller protection in some of these cases.

For your current problem, has the buyer opened a request? If the claim that they didn't receive the item and you have delivery confirmation, you can win that claim. If they have the item and no longer want it, tell them that you will refund once it had been returned. If they do not return it then you do not refund. If they really did throw it away they cannot expect to get their money back. It sounds as if you are refunding just because someone asks you to.....In some cases that may be the only option but often there are other options. Although there is some seller protection, you have to make sure that you know how the system works and when you are actually protected.

zee-chan · ‎06-20-2016

You really shouldn't have folded to refund out of pressure. I personally would just ignore these sort of harassment and block them. You have done your part (tracking, insurance, delivery confirmation, even filed a police report) and clearly the scammer has nothing to lose by harassing you via e-mail everyday... and in this case they GAINED because they got a refund from you when you weren't required to do so by neither eBay or Paypal. They clearly were scamming you and by folding and refunding you are merely encouraging this kind of behaviour and telling this buyer it is okay to scam sellers like this, and they will continue to scam the next seller.

If this is a continuous problem it's probably a good idea to stop selling these expensive items on eBay and stick to selling your lower priced Lego. These expensive toys are attracting low-life buyers unfortunately and you need to be mentally equipped to deal with hostile behaviours.

momcqueen · ‎06-20-2016

@toysandstuff2015 wrote:
Some people just keep emailing and emailing. Ebay customer service and the resolution centre continually prompt you to refund the user's money. If the customer refuses to assist Canada Post they simply shut the case as there are no developments beyond their information that the package was delivered and signed for. I talked to the police in Toronto who responded that it was not a high priority and get back to me. Several months later and they have yet to contact me. The result being that I gave up. I have had other issues with other packages in similar ways. Lego sold and delivered (Taj Mahal, London Tower) which were also listed as successfully delivered, but which the users claimed had been damaged in the mail and were refunded automatically by ebay customer guarentee. These users also refused to assist the Post Office in their inquiries and so the cases were shut with no refund.

A user I am currently dealing with (6 times a day via email) received a large Playmotil set, but claimed they needed it the morning of the day it was delivered, and not in the afternoon when it arrived. As a result they threw it out and want their money back, because of the extreme delays in shipping. To be clear the item left Toronto on the Friday and three days later was in San Francisco. They have also stated that they will not help Canada Post.

There has to be a way to protect against this.

There is.

I have to agree with both zee and pj here. As we all told you, toys2015, in the original post about the LEGO Taj Mahal a few months ago, you have Seller Protection if you've used delivery with signature as per the paypal agreement for items valued at $850CAD. That covers you, period. The buyer cannot claim it wasn't received if you do and therefore no reason whatsoever to refund. If the item was stolen from the buyer, it is their job to contact police, not yours.

For the record, to anyone else out there reading this, here is what a seller should do if the buyer contacts them to say Not Received when tracking clearly shows it was: express surprise and send them Proof of Delivery which is available online with tracking. Offer sympathy. Offer to contact Canada Post (or the courier) to inquire about a Delivery Scan Error. Tell the buyer to contact police if it has been stolen fro their porch, and reassure them you will offer full cooperation with whatever authority contacts you. Do NOT refund. Your responsibility for this ended when you packed the item safely for delivery and secured signature on delivery from the shipper.

And I will reiterate some advice I offered you earlier: if you are finding that you are having trouble with these high-value items, take them to a ebay counterpart that you know and trust to sell them on your behalf. Your relatively now feedback count puts a target on your back for scammers, and it sounds like you are meeting more than your fair share.

Anyone new to selling on ebay or needing a refresher on selling should study these links:

https://www.paypal.com/ca/webapps/mpp/security/seller-protection-faq

and

http://pages.ebay.ca/sellerinformation/seller-protection/

Now you know the do's and do not's for Seller Protection. We are not alone in the eBay wilderness here. A seller simply needs to know the lay of the land and prepare accordingly.