US seller ships bootleg dvd box set, but doesn't want to pay shipping return.

[fh991586]

Hello there,

First time that I received a bootleg item unknowingly.  The item was listed "As new", and the US seller has more than 4000 good feedback with a 100% rate.  He claims he didn't notice the image compression when he screened some of the dvds, nor the lower print quality of packaging on the box & each dvd cases (moiré pattern, letters with a light blurred outline instead of clean sharp print, etc.).  I have some dvds from this serie to use as proof to compare both items, and I have enough printing experience & knowledge on dvd/cd to spot a fraudulent production.

I believe the seller when he tells me he didn't know that it's a bootleg, and he states that he bought it from somebody else on eBay.  But he doesn't seem to want to refund me the return shipping for the item if I send it back (his terms on page states buyer is responsible for return shipping).  I clearly would not have bought it if I had known this was not an official release, so I don't think I should lose money over this transaction.

The case has not been escalated trhough eBay yet, since I only exchange message through the "question to seller" formula in My Ebay.  I'm waiting for his final decision over complete refund + return shipping...

My question is: what are my options now?  I've never had to deal with such a bad experience before!

[I enclosed an image example of the boxset]

[gullerud]

PS> Check my feedback people. 4765 positives. No negatives. You don't get that kind of track record by selling bootlegs or being dishonest or by being discourteous or withholding info. He may try to tell you otherwise. But I will let my correspondence and ad and return policies speak for themselves. And why am I upset? Because people like this make eBay, once in a while, a very bad experience, when you bend over backwards to be fair (and giving good deals.) Thankfully, this happens not as frequently as the honest and good experiences. You all take it easy now.

[gullerud]

"hiding behind a  previous ebay transaction"?? Yeah..  I bought it about a  year  ago.. what do you expect..  it's been sitting safely on a  shelf all this time..  I don't keep track of  things I  purchased  that long ago..  sorry!    ..  it  was even shrink wrapped as I  recall.

[marnotom!]

fh991586, when you flip one of the discs over, what's stamped in the inner ring?

[fh991586]

What I can read on the inner ring?  The funniest thing I've ever seen there...

Ally MCBeal S2-1A & Ally MCBeal S-21B (in reverse)

I picked up the same disc that I already have from an individual package, for comparison:

L803 9661 226217610 R90811-12Y 4018 & L803 9661 226217610 R9081113Z 9737 (in reverse)

So HIS copy doesn't show the regular manufacture number which can be found on every normal legitimate dvd.  It is also kind of silver with a hint of blue, instead of gold: I now suspect it really is a DVD-5 instead of a DVD-9, which would explain the loss of video quality (compressed to fit on smaller media).

[fh991586]

I wished I had included this info when I submitted the case to eBay...

[pierrelebel]

The way i see it, despite all the communications, it comes down to two factors:

1) is the set genuine or not

2) if genuine there is no problem (except for a few rash words exchanged). If not, what will the seller do about it?

Such problem always gets a bit more complicated when it is a cross border transaction.  eBay's policies override whatever terms and policies a seller has in a listing (see post #6).

Not much can be done until it can be determined if the set is genuine or not.

[reallynicestamps]

I  explained  that I have over 4000  cds  and it would take a while to find it..

You need an inventory system.

I have had over 5000 books on one of my IDs and DH has more than 15,000 on his eBay site. Once you have a system (mine is alphabetical, his involves an alpha-numeric code that indicates  date of listing and which item it was that day. )

Then you shelve them in that order and put the inventory item number in the title.

KISS.

Why don't the two of you , buyer and seller, split the difference on the shipping cost?

If your buyer had been in the USA, you would have had to pay the return shipping under the new MSG policy, be sending a shipping label to the buyer. This is unfortunately almost impossible with non-US buyers.

That being said, it has been the normal practice that the buyer pays for returns and because these usually are not amicable returns using Confirmation of Delivery.

Canada Post's parcel services are 'tracked' for anything over 2cm thick, so any service the buyer uses for the return will be tracked.

[pjcdn2005]

I wouldn't have any idea whether a set like this was counterfeit or not but I have no doubt that the buyer totally believes that is is and that you believe that it is authentic.  I have read that bootleg media can be very professional looking. Based on your previous sales, you look to be a artist and not a regular dvd seller so unless you purchased the set from an authorized dealer, do you really 'know' for a fact that this set is authentic?  I know that you believe that it is but that doesn't make it a fact.

If you look at ebay's money back guarantee the seller is responsible for paying for a return if the item is not as described. Since ebay does not have specialists who can decide whether it is or not, they can really only decide whether or not he best course of action is to make the buyer or seller happy. The latter rarely wins in a nad situation.

I sell some designer items and purchase all of my items from authorized dealers so I know that what I sell is authentic. But if a buyer gets it into their head that something is not authentic, I would most likely tell them to return for a refund and pay for return shipping because arguing with them is unlikely to end well. I would be out some money in the end but that is the risk of selling online.

I guess my point is that it doesn't really matter if the dvd is a bootleg. The customer believes it to be so and imo it would be best to get the item back and move on.  If the case has been escalated it may be past that point and the decision will be taken from you but I just wanted to give another viewpoint.

[pjcdn2005]

Canada Post's parcel services are 'tracked' for anything over 2cm thick, so any service the buyer uses for the return will be tracked.

Except for small packet.

[gullerud]

The few times I have had to return something I always paid for the shipping. No questions asked. It's that simple.. and for those of you "experts" here who have zero feedback or under 300 etc., read this if you have the time.. none of what this man has fits the litmus test: (this incidentally is also my last post here).. http://www.wikihow.com/Spot-Fake-DVDs

[mater721]

"The few times I have had to return something I always paid for the shipping."

As a buyer returning something for a refund?

"and for those of you "experts" here who have zero feedback or under 300 etc., read this if you have the time.."

So... how is # of ebay purchases relevant?

Please tell us what # makes an "expert"?

[fh991586]

Thank you for sharing this link, because it proves at least 3 points in my favor:

-UPC code on the boxset is only in black, but with scaling features.  Like when you want to print a clean line art in black and white with your laser printer, but the resolution is only 300 DPI instead of 600 DPI: you don't have a full straight line then...

-UPC codes on individual seasons are tainted with the overall color of the season, in stead of a real full black & white print.

-Like I stated earlier, manufacturer's identity is lacking from the laser engraved inner ring.

[gullerud]

''as  a  buyer  for a refund  you ask?''  Yes.  What else? 

 Am I dealing with children here?

It's the decent thing to do..  pay for shipping!!

As  for the  #  of feedbacks..  I'm just saying I've  bought a lot and I've sold a lot.. not just art .. on eBay.  And  I know  a  bootleg  when I  see one.  This aint it.   You pay  for the   shipping, Francis  and your $28 is yours.

[gullerud]

Silver discs..  great printing .. high quality  materials .. booklet ..  the  CD  is flawless ..  sorry  Francis.   No one in their right mind would put so much expense into a tv  series    with a  ,limited fan base.  Star Wars?  Perhaps.  Not Ally  McBeal..  Yeah I know I broke  my  silence  again.. but the  subterfuge   is so thick.  And sadly,  this thread is thick.

The manufacturer  perhaps    didn't print things  to your  satisfactions,  but it is not a  lousy  bootleg.  In fact, it's a beautiful set..  and you're looking a  gift horse in the mouth...  but again,  mail it back   and I'll refund your $28/  you pay for shipping though..   I won't budge on that.   It's called   being nice.  And fair.  And  protocol.

BYE  FOLKS!   My sister lives  in  Canada .. so no hard feelings  mates!   😉

[gullerud]

"It is also kind of silver with a hint of blue, instead of gold: "

lol

[gullerud]

   Oh goodness me!   I  do have to add  one more thing, kids!  The worst lie I’ve perpetrated his  I keep saying I’m not  going to add more  to this..  but I do believe  I’ve caught our  anti  US  seller  man  in his first bona fide  unadulterated  lie!   I  can remember LOOKING at the UPC  symbol on this box set  because  I was thinking of using it for the auction icon..  I opted  for my own photo  because a)  it looked  great  (like the box set is)  and I wanted to stand out from other generic  auctions if there were  any of  this set  I had to “compete” with.  I distinctly remembera  black  hard edged, non blurry bar code with the normal #s!  I was  just about to go to bed when i thought of this..  now  Francis,  we all know you can doctor the  photos  you take or the bar code itself, but I  would swear under oath  what I say is  the  100% gospel  truth!  So there ya have it..  I remember that  bar code because I started  to enter it; I looked at it..  nothing “fishy”  screamed  bootleg to me then and it still doesn’t to me now.  I am not  calling Francis  a  narcissist..  but in this one case, i can with all confidence  now say he is  lying.. at least  on this  issue.  Glad I  sent that  article from Wikihelps  and glad I’m posting this  before I hit the sack.

Francis, the #s  can differ  when you compare something the studio put out  several years ago .. so can the menus etc.  Fans like me waited  a  long time for the box set to come out..some  thought it may never even come out.  It is bound to have slightly different menus and print outs.  Take a chill pill and be glad you  got  every  show for  pennies.  I would if I was still collecting dads…  I know you won’t think about it,  but all you  people with less than 100  feedbacks ..  you  take a  chill pill, too.  And  own up and pay for your own shipping…  😉  Peter

Goodnight everyone.  At this point, I SERIOUSLY  don’t care what happens.   All I know is  I  have smelled  a  rat and  tried my best to explain my non delusional self.   I was raised  that way.

[mater721]

Am I dealing with children here?"

Now I'm getting a better picture of what is going on here. If this is the way you communicated with buyers I can understand why there are issues. For an "experienced seller" (your words) you lack some basic communication skills.

"as  a  buyer  for a refund  you ask?''  Yes.  What else?

I figured where you were going but I just like to get clarification.

If a buyer is sent wrong / broken item, it is not "the decent thing for them to do" in paying return shipping. That is on the seller.

The buyer should not be out of pocket for any seller mistakes. Period.

[pierrelebel]

""experienced seller""

Yes, he is "experienced" -  having used nine (9) different User IDs on eBay since joining.

At the end of the day, the seller simply refuses to make the buyer "whole" by refunding the price of the item and shipping both ways. An alternative would be to refund the original transaction (price and shipping) and let the buyer keep or destroy the item instead of returning it.

The buyer will have to decide what to do.

Turning 70 this year, I am not exactly a "kid".  I know what I would do.

[mater721]

"Yes, he is "experienced" -  having used nine (9) different User IDs on eBay since joining."

That is interesting.

Not a seller so I could not speculate on why someone would have (that many) multiple IDs.

[gullerud]

LOL  gullerud_art     petergullerud   and  I can't even remember the rest..  is this the best you people  can do? Pick on someone who has changed  his ID  name  for the past 16 years?  How do you  baby  detectives  even find out this  ridiculous  and yes  CHILDISH stuff?

I have the right to change  the name as  I  see fit with selling my art. 

Anyone  fresh  walking into this silly thread can see who the  unprofessional  ones are here -  70  or no 70. GROW UP.

Am I dealing with children?  No I am dealing with people who act like they are in Mayberry RFD on a partyline gossip phone.

Thanks  for the invite "pierre"   and  I am always  polite to my customers..  just ask  Francis.. even to the point of answering ALL  his  tiring and now I see  baiting emails. 

Ps..  Francis..   my pirate radio station is a   hobby .. not in your words  "an occupation". 

I  defend myself when I  am surrounded  by knee jerk  judgmental  wolves.   I don't have to  be so clear  when  I am dealing with gentlemen .. which apparently none  of you are.